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Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker

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  • Giles
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 1, 2001
    • Martin Hanover
      Many thanks for your comments Giles. I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any diagrams/photos, and maybe you could tell me how you converted your
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 1, 2001
        Many thanks for your comments Giles.
        I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any diagrams/photos, and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker design.
        Thanks again.
        Martin....
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Giles <giles@...>
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker


        > Hi Giles.
        > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run yet.
        > But will be shortly.
        > My question is..
        > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
        > Many thanks in advance.
        > Martin.....
        The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make it hard to pack/clean the column.

        Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat and (b) regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and full reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux. (although you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S design, the default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can stabilise the column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.

        I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling potential and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just condenses vapour straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux process.

        I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol with your stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will be quite good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.

        ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design without too much difficulty.


      • Rob van Leuven
        ... Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@mhanover.freeserve.co.uk] Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24 Aan: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: Re:
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 2, 2001
           
          -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
          Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@...]
          Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
          Aan: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker

          Many thanks for your comments Giles.
          I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any diagrams/photos, and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker design.
          Thanks again.
          Martin....
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Giles <giles@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker


          > Hi Giles.
          > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run yet.
          > But will be shortly.
          > My question is..
          > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
          > Many thanks in advance.
          > Martin.....
          The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make it hard to pack/clean the column.

          Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat and (b) regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and full reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux. (although you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S design, the default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can stabilise the column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.

          I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling potential and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just condenses vapour straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux process.

          I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol with your stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will be quite good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.

          ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design without too much difficulty.



           
          Hi guys,
          attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at the moment I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet. Believe it, if you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
          Rob 


        • klcampbell
          Hi Mark,sorry it has taken me a while to respond,I built the Mk1.column not the straight through model for the reason I could not see how you could control the
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 5, 2001
            Hi Mark,sorry it has taken me a while to respond,I built the Mk1.column not
            the straight through model for the reason I could not see how you could
            control the reflux and direct it back down the centre of the packing.
            My system uses a hot plate with 2 elements,1@... 1 @ 750w.both turned
            on for heatup and 1000w. for the run.I use a solid state Ascon M3controller
            and solid state relay.The thermocouple is imbedded in the centre of the
            10mm. alloy hotplate,from underneath to give good control.

            When running I have 2 options,in the cooler months of the year I set up and
            turn on about 11.00 P.M.,setting the heat at 135o C with water running
            through the condenser and go to bed.At 6.00 A.M. column temp. at 68-70o,time
            to start bleeding off the head.I then turn up the heat to 165oC which
            experience has shown to be the best heat for my setup.By 10.00A.M.the head
            is clean and the temp. is at 78.4,and the column is starting to produce
            clean spirit.The first 500ml.is around 93% and by the time 2 litres has come
            over the purity is at 96+%.
            If you are not condensing all of the vapour your boilup rate is too high and
            you are flooding the packing in the column.You have not mentioned how much
            packing you have in the column.I use just over 1 metre of S/S scrubbers and
            have heavy insulation right up to the condenser.I run at 14:1 reflux and
            collect @ 360mls per hour.I use a digital thermometer,only in the top of the
            tower also i have fine control of the water supply through the condenser
            with a thermometer reading the discharge temperature of the water.One other
            thing I have been trying is 1Kg. of Raschig Rings in the kettle to even out
            the boil rate of the wash,don't know if it helps but I know they do it in
            Laboritories.Sorry Mark I got a bit carried away there but I hope that has
            helped you a little bit.
            Cheers for now,Regards Ken.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bennett, Mark E" <mark.e.bennett@...>
            To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2001 9:58
            Subject: RE: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmakero

            > Ken
            > Some time back I built a Nixon/stone design using 50 mm S/S tube
            > with a 6mm copper condenser coil about 400mm long on there alternative
            > stillhead design (no bend). I found that I could not condense all of the
            > steam rising and I was loosing product to the atmosphere (Approx 2.6 mj /
            > Hour or .7 kw , output = 63 ml per min no reflux) , no matter how much
            > cooling water I threw at the condenser. My assumption was that as I had
            > increased the tube size from there design of 30 - 35mm to 50mm. I was
            having
            > problems bringing the steam in contact with coil due to the larger
            internal
            > area in the 50mm tube. I then changed the design to a 600 mm jacketed
            > condenser (35 mm bore) but still had problem with steam escaping out of
            the
            > top. I eventually added 12 x 30mm S/S welsh plugs suspended on a 4mm S/S
            > rod inside the condenser to force the steam closer to the cooling surface
            > and this resolved my problem.
            >
            > My question :
            > 1. Have you experienced problems of ethanol vapour rising out of the top
            of
            > the stillhead
            > 2. If yes how have you overcome this problem
            > 3. Do you know what you energy input is (KW or Mj)
            > 4. Can you let me know what your product output is ml/min (No Reflux)
            > 5. What is the boiler temperature when you stop the run ( My interest here
            > is for the % of alcohol remaining in the boiler. The reading would need
            to
            > be with a thermometer that you had calibrated against boiling water 100c)
            >
            > I have concerns with the safety of the open still head design as there is
            a
            > chance of volatile vapours escaping from the top of the still head as well
            > as the product output is also hot and releasing vapours to the atmosphere
            > which could ignite or worse explode if the still was used in an enclosed
            > environment.
            > Are you others concerned with the escaping vapours or could this be my
            > previous experience has made me wary.
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: klcampbell [SMTP:klcampbell@...]
            > > Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2001 09:03 pm
            > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmaker
            > >
            > > Hi Frank,I started with a Labmaster unit and only ran it 3 times as
            > > purchased before I made a Nixon/Stone tower to replace the origonal
            > > one.The
            > > Quality of the end product now is truly outstanding,I made my tower out
            of
            > > 50mm.316 S/S tube,1250mm.high and have had the condenser coil Tin plated
            > > to
            > > stop any tarnishing from the vapour.From a 25 lt.wash I get9 lts of
            > > spirit,4to5lts @ 95%+,I stop collecting at 85o and the average for the
            > > whole
            > > run is93%.Happy hunting.
            > > Regards Ken
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Frank Hammond" <frankhammond2000@...>
            > > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2001 15:00
            > > Subject: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmaker
            > >
            > >
            > > > I am trying to decide between these 2 column designs,
            > > > and would love to get some advice? I am leaning toward
            > > > the stone/nixon design, as it appears to be cheaper
            > > > and easier to construct.
            > > >
            > > > If I go with the Nixon/Stone, are there any suggested
            > > > modifications?
            > > >
            > > > If I were to go with the Stillmaker, would it be
            > > > better to modify the design so that I don't have
            > > > cooling pipes running through the top and bottom of
            > > > the still? Should I have both the cooling tubes
            > > > running through the top of the still, or the bottom.
            > > >
            > > > Sorry for not being more concise, I would invariable
            > > > have misused the terms and misstated my questions. I
            > > > think it is best to just leave it open ended and
            > > > vague. Please all thoughts are welcome. I just don't
            > > > have the technical knowledge to evaluate which still
            > > > design is better.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for you help.
            > > >
            > > > ____________________________________________________________
            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
            > > > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >
          • martin@mhanover.freeserve.co.uk
            ... diagrams/photos, ... design. ... hard to ... and (b) ... full ... (although ... the ... the ... potential ... condenses vapour ... process. ... with your
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 5, 2001
              --- In new_distillers@y..., "Rob van Leuven" <r.vanleuven@c...> wrote:
              >
              > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              > Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@m...]
              > Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
              > Aan: new_distillers@y...
              > Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
              >
              >
              > Many thanks for your comments Giles.
              > I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any
              diagrams/photos,
              > and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker
              design.
              > Thanks again.
              > Martin....
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Giles <giles@p...>
              > To: new_distillers@y... <new_distillers@y...>
              > Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
              > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
              >
              >
              >
              > > Hi Giles.
              > > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run yet.
              > > But will be shortly.
              > > My question is..
              > > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
              > > Many thanks in advance.
              > > Martin.....
              > The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make it
              hard to
              > pack/clean the column.
              >
              > Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat
              and (b)
              > regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and
              full
              > reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux.
              (although
              > you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S design,
              the
              > default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can stabilise
              the
              > column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.
              >
              > I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling
              potential
              > and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just
              condenses vapour
              > straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux
              process.
              >
              > I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol
              with your
              > stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will be
              quite
              > good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.
              >
              > ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design without
              too much
              > difficulty.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi guys,
              > attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at the
              moment
              > I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet.
              Believe it, if
              > you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
              > Rob

              Hi Rob.
              Thanks for the effort but i can't seem to find the attached
              photograph!.
              Please can you send it again
              Many thanks
              Martin...
            • Rob van Leuven
              ... Van: scottvines@netscape.net [mailto:scottvines@netscape.net] Verzonden: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 6:52 Aan: Rob van Leuven Onderwerp: FW: [new_distillers]
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 13, 2001
                -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                Van: scottvines@... [mailto:scottvines@...]
                Verzonden: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 6:52
                Aan: Rob van Leuven
                Onderwerp: FW: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker


                Rob,

                I built a Nixon/Stone still that uses a Liebig condenser (3/4" jacket
                with 1/2" pass-through tubing). It screws onto the column and turns
                out at about a 45-degree angle from vertical. I use inexpensive PTFE
                thread tape to help seal the connection and to keep the angle of the
                take-off valve at full vertical. It does not leak.

                I like my still because it's open to the atmosphere, and I lightly
                plug it with clean cotton to keep the lightest of vapors from
                escaping. The benefits of this design are easy construction and
                cleaning, and inherent safety. However, like everything in life,
                there are some negatives. It is tall (almost eight feet), and it
                wants to tip over if you use a pot with a relatively small diameter.
                My pot is narrow, so I've had to stabilize my still with a wire
                contraption until I can build a more permanent structure (i.e. wood
                frame) or find a bigger pot. If you used a shorter condenser than
                mine (mine is overkill), balance probably wouldn't be an issue.

                Just thought you might like to know how I built my still. When you
                get your new still built, please don't forget to post a description
                at this site. I'm very interested in what you might be doing to
                improve your Nixon/Stone design.

                Regards,
                Scott



                Hi Scott,
                very interesting; could you post some pics??? I'd like to know the length of
                your condenser; my still has a 300 mm. long 28 mm. diam. coil condenser
                (coil made out of 5 mm. soft copper break pipe), the cooling water has a lot
                of trouble getting through, so I'm looking for a better alternative.
                The improvement in the n/s still is actually in their latest book; it's
                basically the "in-line" version. Nevertheless, there is always room for
                improvement.
                regards,
                Rob
              • bruce@afpfurlan.com
                ... yet. ... it ... design, ... stabilise ... be ... without ... the ... Hi! It s Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much about the Nixon stone
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 14, 2001
                  --- In new_distillers@y..., martin@m... wrote:
                  > --- In new_distillers@y..., "Rob van Leuven" <r.vanleuven@c...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                  > > Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@m...]
                  > > Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
                  > > Aan: new_distillers@y...
                  > > Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Many thanks for your comments Giles.
                  > > I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any
                  > diagrams/photos,
                  > > and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker
                  > design.
                  > > Thanks again.
                  > > Martin....
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Giles <giles@p...>
                  > > To: new_distillers@y... <new_distillers@y...>
                  > > Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
                  > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Hi Giles.
                  > > > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run
                  yet.
                  > > > But will be shortly.
                  > > > My question is..
                  > > > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
                  > > > Many thanks in advance.
                  > > > Martin.....
                  > > The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make
                  it
                  > hard to
                  > > pack/clean the column.
                  > >
                  > > Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat
                  > and (b)
                  > > regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and
                  > full
                  > > reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux.
                  > (although
                  > > you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S
                  design,
                  > the
                  > > default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can
                  stabilise
                  > the
                  > > column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.
                  > >
                  > > I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling
                  > potential
                  > > and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just
                  > condenses vapour
                  > > straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux
                  > process.
                  > >
                  > > I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol
                  > with your
                  > > stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will
                  be
                  > quite
                  > > good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.
                  > >
                  > > ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design
                  without
                  > too much
                  > > difficulty.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi guys,
                  > > attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at
                  the
                  > moment
                  > > I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet.
                  > Believe it, if
                  > > you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
                  > > Rob
                  >
                  > Hi Rob.
                  > Thanks for the effort but i can't seem to find the attached
                  > photograph!.
                  > Please can you send it again
                  > Many thanks
                  > Martin...


                  Hi! It's Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much
                  about the Nixon stone condenser. Can anyone tell me where to get
                  drgs. or some info as to how to make one, I would appreciate it.

                  Regards,

                  Bruce
                • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                  Bruce, ... See some photos of it at http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm Tony
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 16, 2001
                    Bruce,

                    > Hi! It's Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much
                    > about the Nixon stone condenser. Can anyone tell me where to get
                    > drgs. or some info as to how to make one, I would appreciate it.

                    See some photos of it at
                    http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm

                    Tony
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