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mash fail

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  • worm785
    I started a batch of UJSSM just like the recipe called for. THis is about my 3rd or 4th batch of UJSSM and all have worked, except for this one. It was going
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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      I started a batch of UJSSM just like the recipe called for.  THis is about my 3rd or 4th batch of UJSSM and all have worked, except for this one.  It was going good for about 3-4 days and then almost "died."  There are few bubbles, the balloon I put on top for an airlock went limp and it is slowly clarifying.  I also put another cup of sugar and half a TBSP of DADY Yeast but nothing.  Any ideas what could be wrong and/or how to fix it?
    • Swap!
      What temp is the mash?
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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        What temp is the mash?

        On Nov 13, 2013 12:15 PM, <worm785@...> wrote:
         

        I started a batch of UJSSM just like the recipe called for.  THis is about my 3rd or 4th batch of UJSSM and all have worked, except for this one.  It was going good for about 3-4 days and then almost "died."  There are few bubbles, the balloon I put on top for an airlock went limp and it is slowly clarifying.  I also put another cup of sugar and half a TBSP of DADY Yeast but nothing.  Any ideas what could be wrong and/or how to fix it?

      • Michael Gore
        What is beginning and ending sg?
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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          What is beginning and ending sg?

        • Chris Davis
          I had a little bit of a error:  I forgot to get the SG.  My beaker broke and my new one will be in tomorrow so I will take a gravity reading then.  I am
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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            I had a little bit of a error:  I forgot to get the SG.  My beaker broke and my new one will be in tomorrow so I will take a gravity reading then.  I am guessing you are getting at the fact that if it is under 1.000 it just had a quick fermentation and should be ready to distill?  Thanks for your fast response.




            On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:23 AM, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:
             
            What is beginning and ending sg?


          • marcornantel
            SG readings are the way; but I also skip them, so...if you didn t check it, its ok. Taste it. If its still sweet, and you stuck to the recipie, its stalled.
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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              SG readings are the way; but I also skip them, so...if you didn't check it, its ok. Taste it. If its still sweet, and you stuck to the recipie, its stalled. Temps and ph levels are the two biggies I've found for stalling.
              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
            • Jim Graves
              The sour mash must have oxygen to work, take off your airlock and just put a clean towel over the fermentor...it must have o2   On Wednesday, November 13,
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                The sour mash must have oxygen to work, take off your airlock and just put a clean towel over the fermentor...it must have o2
                 



                On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:10 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                 
                I had a little bit of a error:  I forgot to get the SG.  My beaker broke and my new one will be in tomorrow so I will take a gravity reading then.  I am guessing you are getting at the fact that if it is under 1.000 it just had a quick fermentation and should be ready to distill?  Thanks for your fast response.




                On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:23 AM, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:
                 
                What is beginning and ending sg?




              • Chris Davis
                Cool. I ll try and see what it does. Thanks Sent from my iPhone
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                  Cool. I'll try and see what it does. Thanks

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:

                   

                  The sour mash must have oxygen to work, take off your airlock and just put a clean towel over the fermentor...it must have o2
                   



                  On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:10 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                   
                  I had a little bit of a error:  I forgot to get the SG.  My beaker broke and my new one will be in tomorrow so I will take a gravity reading then.  I am guessing you are getting at the fact that if it is under 1.000 it just had a quick fermentation and should be ready to distill?  Thanks for your fast response.




                  On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:23 AM, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:
                   
                  What is beginning and ending sg?




                • Michael Gore
                  Only add oxygen at the beginning by shaking, stirring, etc. You don t want to introduce oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and check sg.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                    Only add oxygen at the beginning by shaking, stirring, etc. You don't want to introduce oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and check sg.

                  • M L
                    In a pinch you can float your hydrometer in the fermenter itself. ... On Wed, 11/13/13, Michael Gore wrote: Subject: Re: [new_distillers]
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                      In a pinch you can float your hydrometer in the fermenter itself.
                      --------------------------------------------
                      On Wed, 11/13/13, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:

                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2013, 11:11 AM
















                       









                      Only add oxygen at the beginning by
                      shaking, stirring, etc. You don't want to introduce
                      oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and
                      check sg.
                    • Blackhat-Whitedog
                      how much dunder did you return to the fermentor? I do believe that your Ph level builds up acidic so its stronger than vinegar or lemon juice and you have to
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                        how much dunder did you return to the fermentor? I do believe that your Ph level builds up acidic so its stronger than vinegar or lemon juice and you have to adjust after a couple refills
                      • Chris Davis
                        I will check the gravity today and let you know what it is.  Currently, temp is at 76 degrees Fahrenheit. On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:26 PM, M L
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                          I will check the gravity today and let you know what it is.  Currently, temp is at 76 degrees Fahrenheit.


                          On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:26 PM, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                           
                          In a pinch you can float your hydrometer in the fermenter itself.
                          --------------------------------------------
                          On Wed, 11/13/13, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:

                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail
                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2013, 11:11 AM
















                           









                          Only add oxygen at the beginning by
                          shaking, stirring, etc. You don't want to introduce
                          oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and
                          check sg.

























                        • Zapata Vive
                          Or just taste it...
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                            Or just taste it...


                            On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                             

                            In a pinch you can float your hydrometer in the fermenter itself.
                            --------------------------------------------
                            On Wed, 11/13/13, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:

                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail
                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2013, 11:11 AM


















                             









                            Only add oxygen at the beginning by
                            shaking, stirring, etc. You don't want to introduce
                            oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and
                            check sg.
























                          • RLB
                            If it tastes bitter, then its done. ________________________________ From: Zapata Vive To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 13, 2013
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                              If it tastes bitter, then its done.


                              From: Zapata Vive <zapatavive@...>
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:17 AM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail

                               
                              Or just taste it...


                              On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                               
                              In a pinch you can float your hydrometer in the fermenter itself.
                              --------------------------------------------
                              On Wed, 11/13/13, Michael Gore <mgore73@...> wrote:

                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2013, 11:11 AM

















                               









                              Only add oxygen at the beginning by
                              shaking, stirring, etc. You don't want to introduce
                              oxygen at this point. Wait until your hydro comes in and
                              check sg.


























                            • Chris Davis
                              I am newer at this so I assume by Dundee you mean backwash from the previous run? If so, roughly 1 1/2-2 gallons of backwash was put into the second run.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 14, 2013
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                                I am newer at this so I assume by Dundee you mean "backwash" from the previous run?  If so, roughly 1 1/2-2 gallons of backwash was put into the second run. 

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                On Nov 14, 2013, at 5:29 AM, Blackhat-Whitedog <blkhatwhtdog@...> wrote:

                                 

                                how much dunder did you return to the fermentor? I do believe that your Ph level builds up acidic so its stronger than vinegar or lemon juice and you have to adjust after a couple refills

                              • Ed Barcik
                                I ve been having this problem myself since I started using sugar instead of HFCS but always manage to distill it and then reuse the backset since it has
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 14, 2013
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                                  I’ve been having this problem myself since I started using sugar instead of HFCS but always manage to distill it and then reuse the backset since it has considerable sugar left in it. I’m thinking that my problem is that the HFCS has more fructose and now that I’m using sugar is tends to stick but the end product is fine, just not enough. Incidentally, I start at 1.130 which is very high, slightly over 30 brix, ferments really good until right around 1.020 or a little higher or lower, gives me just about 13-14%

                                • Zapata Vive
                                  Ed, why bother with such a high SG? Especially if it s quitting at 1.020 anyway, why not just lower it by .02 up front? I m guessing this isn t for a UJSSM
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 14, 2013
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                                    Ed, why bother with such a high SG?  Especially if it's quitting at 1.020 anyway, why not just lower it by .02 up front?  I'm guessing this isn't for a UJSSM though?
                                    BTW, you can get sugar higher than 14%, it's not the sugar, it's the yeast or nutrients that aren't optimal.  Personally I wouldn't bother, 10% is plenty for me and gives better flavors to my tastes.


                                    On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Ed Barcik <edbar44@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    I’ve been having this problem myself since I started using sugar instead of HFCS but always manage to distill it and then reuse the backset since it has considerable sugar left in it. I’m thinking that my problem is that the HFCS has more fructose and now that I’m using sugar is tends to stick but the end product is fine, just not enough. Incidentally, I start at 1.130 which is very high, slightly over 30 brix, ferments really good until right around 1.020 or a little higher or lower, gives me just about 13-14%


                                  • Chris Davis
                                    Thanks to all for the continued advice/answers.  Though I never checked the SG (terrible mistake), I did check the FG and it was 0.980 and the beer has a
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 14, 2013
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                                      Thanks to all for the continued advice/answers.  Though I never checked the SG (terrible mistake), I did check the FG and it was 0.980 and the "beer" has a bitter taste to it.  So, in my nebie(ness), I believe it just finished fermenting rather quickly, 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 days rather than the typical 7(ish).  So, I have some free time on Sunday and I will distill then and post some results as to the ABV and outcome.



                                      On Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:13 PM, Zapata Vive <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      Ed, why bother with such a high SG?  Especially if it's quitting at 1.020 anyway, why not just lower it by .02 up front?  I'm guessing this isn't for a UJSSM though?
                                      BTW, you can get sugar higher than 14%, it's not the sugar, it's the yeast or nutrients that aren't optimal.  Personally I wouldn't bother, 10% is plenty for me and gives better flavors to my tastes.


                                      On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Ed Barcik <edbar44@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      I’ve been having this problem myself since I started using sugar instead of HFCS but always manage to distill it and then reuse the backset since it has considerable sugar left in it. I’m thinking that my problem is that the HFCS has more fructose and now that I’m using sugar is tends to stick but the end product is fine, just not enough. Incidentally, I start at 1.130 which is very high, slightly over 30 brix, ferments really good until right around 1.020 or a little higher or lower, gives me just about 13-14%



                                    • marcornantel
                                      It sounds to me like you have nothing to worry about. Somebody waay smarter than me gave me the same advice when I started. If you don t taste the sugar
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 14, 2013
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                                        It sounds to me like you have nothing to worry about. Somebody waay smarter than me gave me the same advice when I started. If you don't taste the sugar anymore, the yeast did their job!
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                        From: Chris Davis <worm785@...>
                                        Sender: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:43:44 -0800 (PST)
                                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com<new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                        ReplyTo: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mash fail

                                         

                                        Thanks to all for the continued advice/answers.  Though I never checked the SG (terrible mistake), I did check the FG and it was 0.980 and the "beer" has a bitter taste to it.  So, in my nebie(ness), I believe it just finished fermenting rather quickly, 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 days rather than the typical 7(ish).  So, I have some free time on Sunday and I will distill then and post some results as to the ABV and outcome.



                                        On Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:13 PM, Zapata Vive <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        Ed, why bother with such a high SG?  Especially if it's quitting at 1.020 anyway, why not just lower it by .02 up front?  I'm guessing this isn't for a UJSSM though?
                                        BTW, you can get sugar higher than 14%, it's not the sugar, it's the yeast or nutrients that aren't optimal.  Personally I wouldn't bother, 10% is plenty for me and gives better flavors to my tastes.


                                        On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Ed Barcik <edbar44@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        I’ve been having this problem myself since I started using sugar instead of HFCS but always manage to distill it and then reuse the backset since it has considerable sugar left in it. I’m thinking that my problem is that the HFCS has more fructose and now that I’m using sugar is tends to stick but the end product is fine, just not enough. Incidentally, I start at 1.130 which is very high, slightly over 30 brix, ferments really good until right around 1.020 or a little higher or lower, gives me just about 13-14%



                                      • Ed Barcik
                                        The reason is time! I like 20+ in my wash which I ve always managed, don t get me wrong, 10-14% is fine but I m going 100 liter washes so the yield difference
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Nov 15, 2013
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                                          The reason is time! I like 20+ in my wash which I’ve always managed, don’t get me wrong, 10-14% is fine but I’m going 100 liter washes so the yield difference is considerable, 20 lit vs. 10

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