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Is sanitizing necessary

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  • worm785
    Hi, I am about to make my first batch of distillate. Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with? I will be
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
      Hi,

           I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.
    • marcornantel
      Not absoulty ness, but never a bad idea. UJSSM is meant to go for a long time, why risk nasties? StarSan is cheap, give it a go. 70 to 80 great fermenting
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
        Not absoulty ness, but never a bad idea. UJSSM is meant to go for a long time, why risk nasties? StarSan is cheap, give it a go.
        70 to 80 great fermenting temps.

        As a side note, look into Pintoshine's souring method to jump start the process
        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

        From: <worm785@...>
        Sender: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: 20 Oct 2013 03:58:58 -0700
        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

         

        Hi,

             I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.

      • RLB
        I  wash it out with soap and water using a plastic pad and rinse well.  My fermenting water is placed in the buckle really hot, and I use ice packs on the
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
          I  wash it out with soap and water using a plastic pad and rinse well.  My fermenting water is placed in the buckle really hot, and I use ice packs on the outside of the bucket to cool it down to 85 F.  I have never had a problem doing it that way with all of my washes.


          From: "worm785@..." <worm785@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:58 AM
          Subject: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

           
          Hi,

               I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.


        • mavnkaf
          Hi worm, I use Star Stan to sanitize my fermenters and equipment. It works very well, google it! Temp range for mollasses washes would be around 20 - 30 C,
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013

            Hi worm,

             

            I use Star Stan to sanitize my fermenters and equipment.  It works very well, google it!

             

            Temp range for mollasses washes would be around 20 - 30 C, but 25 C would be the mean temp.  Lower the temp would insure less foaming over during fermentation.

             

            Cheers

            Marc



            ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, <worm785@...> wrote:

            Hi,

                 I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.
          • fatbloke
            Sanitise fermenters ? Yes. Either washed with soap and water, then rinsed clean with water the sloshed round with starsan or another proprietary cleaner, or if
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
              Sanitise fermenters ? Yes. Either washed with soap and water, then rinsed clean with water the sloshed round with starsan or another proprietary cleaner, or if you don't have that you can use 5 crushed campden tablets and a teaspoon of citric acid dissolved in a pint of water - which is what I usually use but keep it in a hand spray to spray all the surfaces that will contact the fermenting must. I just spray well then let it have 2 or 3 minutes contact time......

              As for fermenting temperature ? It really depends on the yeast,  but to save any shit...... if you can keep it at about the 20C/68F you can't go far wrong.....



              -------- Original message --------
              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
              Date: 20/10/2013 12:11 (GMT+00:00)
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary


               

              I  wash it out with soap and water using a plastic pad and rinse well.  My fermenting water is placed in the buckle really hot, and I use ice packs on the outside of the bucket to cool it down to 85 F.  I have never had a problem doing it that way with all of my washes.


              From: "worm785@..." <worm785@...>
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:58 AM
              Subject: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

               
              Hi,

                   I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.


            • Hopefull Romantic
              Yes very important to clean and sanitize as it helps a lot to control wild yeast as brewer yeasts are very specialized to produce specific flavors and wild
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013

                Yes very important to clean and sanitize as it helps a lot to control wild yeast as brewer yeasts are very specialized to produce specific flavors  and wild yeast can have some very off flavors  such as vinegar rotten and or just not right flavors

                And there is a wide variety of sanitizer’s  but the best are one step sanitizers and you can get them from any brew store.

                If you in a rush bleach works but you have to rinse what you sanitized quite a lot with water to get the reside of bleach out  

              • Patrick Luke
                Should say no rinse Sani, always wash your kit with something like 5 star s PBW or similar and sanitize with Star San I mention that brand as it s what I use
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
                  Should say no rinse Sani, always wash your kit with something like 5 star's PBW or similar and sanitize with Star San 
                  I mention that brand as it's what I use and like.

                  I wash before and after brewing, just to get rid of any dust from sitting, doesn't take long as well as eliminating a variable from the process.

                  start with clean and end up with clean.

                  just my 2c


                  On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Hopefull Romantic <hopefull_romantic@...> wrote:
                   

                  Yes very important to clean and sanitize as it helps a lot to control wild yeast as brewer yeasts are very specialized to produce specific flavors  and wild yeast can have some very off flavors  such as vinegar rotten and or just not right flavors

                  And there is a wide variety of sanitizer’s  but the best are one step sanitizers and you can get them from any brew store.

                  If you in a rush bleach works but you have to rinse what you sanitized quite a lot with water to get the reside of bleach out  




                  --
                  Patrick Luke
                • planetgong0
                  Bleach for me every time, cheap as chips Planetgong0 ... Yes very important to clean and sanitize as it helps a lot to control wild yeast as brewer yeasts are
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013

                    Bleach for me every time, cheap as chips

                    Planetgong0 



                    ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Yes very important to clean and sanitize as it helps a lot to control wild yeast as brewer yeasts are very specialized to produce specific flavors  and wild yeast can have some very off flavors  such as vinegar rotten and or just not right flavors

                    And there is a wide variety of sanitizer’s  but the best are one step sanitizers and you can get them from any brew store.

                    If you in a rush bleach works but you have to rinse what you sanitized quite a lot with water to get the reside of bleach out  

                  • RLB
                    Just had a brain storm, If you used steam for 10 minutes, you would mot need to use anything else. ________________________________ From: Patrick Luke
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
                      Just had a brain storm, If you used steam for 10 minutes, you would mot need to use anything else.


                      From: Patrick Luke <peluke@...>
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:43 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Is sanitizing necessary

                       
                      Should say no rinse Sani, always wash your kit with something like 5 star's PBW or similar and sanitize with Star San 
                      I mention that brand as it's what I use and like.

                      I wash before and after brewing, just to get rid of any dust from sitting, doesn't take long as well as eliminating a variable from the process.

                      start with clean and end up with clean.

                      just my 2c


                    • Chris Davis
                      What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? Sent from my iPhone
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 20, 2013
                        What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? 

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Oct 20, 2013, at 1:08 PM, marcornantel@... wrote:

                         

                        Not absoulty ness, but never a bad idea. UJSSM is meant to go for a long time, why risk nasties? StarSan is cheap, give it a go.
                        70 to 80 great fermenting temps.

                        As a side note, look into Pintoshine's souring method to jump start the process

                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        From: <worm785@...>
                        Date: 20 Oct 2013 03:58:58 -0700
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

                         

                        Hi,

                             I am about to make my first batch of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM) the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help answering these questions.

                      • Blackhat-Whitedog
                        soap and water should be good enough...if you are using plastic buckets I d use only a soft sponge, you don t want to scratch them up inside too much. but....
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 21, 2013
                          soap and water should be good enough...if you are using plastic buckets I'd use only a soft sponge, you don't want to scratch them up inside too much.

                          but....

                          UJSSM should be done again and again, just drain it off but leave enough wash to keep the grains covered, return the leftovers from the distillation and add another portion of sugar, adjust the PH if needed. it gets better as you go.

                          FYI, it was beer making that got scientists thinking about sanitation, medieval drunks were actually healtier than the ones who didn't drink cause the water was so filthy, however the brewers knew they had to boil everything or the beer would get skanky.


                          * * * * *
                          Hi,

                               I am about to make my first batch
                          of distillate.  Do I need to sanitize the fermenting
                          bucket or not and if so, what do I sanitize with?  I
                          will be following Uncle Jess's Simple Sour Mash (UJSSM)
                          the first go round and then trying a mash with mollases and
                          sweet feed later. Also, what is the optimal temperature
                          range for the fermenting process? Thanks for the help
                          answering these questions.
                        • Paul
                          ...medieval drunks were actually healtier than the ones who didn t drink cause the water was so filthy, however the brewers knew they had to boil everything
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 22, 2013

                            "...medieval drunks were actually healtier than the ones who didn't drink cause the water was so filthy, however the brewers knew they had to boil everything or the beer would get skanky"

                            A now-elderly friend of mine, travelling on the famous Trans Siberian Railway, was the only passenger who didn't come down with dysentery, because all she drank for the whole trip was - beer. True story.

                            Paul



















































                          • Zapata Vive
                            http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1611&sid=d578290158cf71af70093b44151dc74a Personally I found it easier, faster and more reliable to do
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 22, 2013
                              Personally I found it easier, faster and more reliable to do at elevated temp.  120*F off the top of my head is ideal.  12-24 hours and you've got some good sour going for pH adjustments, 2 days and you'll likely have a thick pelicle on top too, and about as sour as you could want for anything and an awesome starter culture to pitch with your yeast into plain corn.

                              The higher temp makes it ideal for the bacteria you want to grow, and less attractive to other bacteria, molds, yeasts etc.

                              Crock pots work, but I found I had to just turn the heat and watch it until it was near 120, then turn the heat off for a couple hours.  Just leaving it on low cooks it too high and sanitizes out all your hard work.  A power controller on the crock pot works nicely though.


                              On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                               

                              What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? 

                              Sent from my iPhone

                            • Robert Hubble
                              Zapata, Did you find the higher fermentation temperature gave fewer bad cultures? Pint always suggest starting maybe three, because some will take an
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 22, 2013
                                Zapata,

                                Did you find the higher fermentation temperature gave fewer "bad" cultures? Pint always suggest starting maybe three, because some will take an alternate microbial path and end up smelling like feet, so that's what I've always done. I don't recall now if I've ever had a bad one. It's been years since I did it, and I've got CRS.

                                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                From: zapatavive@...
                                Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:50:31 -0400
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

                                 

                                Personally I found it easier, faster and more reliable to do at elevated temp.  120*F off the top of my head is ideal.  12-24 hours and you've got some good sour going for pH adjustments, 2 days and you'll likely have a thick pelicle on top too, and about as sour as you could want for anything and an awesome starter culture to pitch with your yeast into plain corn.

                                The higher temp makes it ideal for the bacteria you want to grow, and less attractive to other bacteria, molds, yeasts etc.

                                Crock pots work, but I found I had to just turn the heat and watch it until it was near 120, then turn the heat off for a couple hours.  Just leaving it on low cooks it too high and sanitizes out all your hard work.  A power controller on the crock pot works nicely though.


                                On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                                 

                                What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? 

                                Sent from my iPhone


                              • Zapata Vive
                                To be honest I haven t really done it enough times to say for sure, especially not the exact same way many times. I can say without a doubt that keeping it
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 22, 2013
                                  To be honest I haven't really done it enough times to say for sure, especially not the exact same way many times.  I can say without a doubt that keeping it warm makes it work faster.  I've cultured a lot of microbes in home/home-lab conditions though, and it seems that optimum temperatures for the desireable species are usually the best choice when that temp is not very close to ambient temps.  For example, f LAB optimum temp was, say 80*F, then under non-sterile conditions it might often be better to grow it a good bit cooler to slow down the variety of contaminates that also like 80*'s F.  But not a lot of organisms likely to be hanging around in the kitchen/shop/corn thrive at 120*F other than suitable lactos, so it's a pretty safe temp range.

                                  Also, the faster the LAB make their acid, the faster it becomes inhospitable to contaminants due to dropping pH.  That's happening within hours over 100*F.

                                  Anyway, those are my thoughts on it.  It seems to jive with lactic fermentation of foodstuffs too, but I haven't systematically tried to optimize it.  Heck, half the time when I optimize something, life gets in the way and it ends up sitting around anyway!


                                  On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Zapata,

                                  Did you find the higher fermentation temperature gave fewer "bad" cultures? Pint always suggest starting maybe three, because some will take an alternate microbial path and end up smelling like feet, so that's what I've always done. I don't recall now if I've ever had a bad one. It's been years since I did it, and I've got CRS.

                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: zapatavive@...
                                  Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:50:31 -0400

                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

                                   

                                  Personally I found it easier, faster and more reliable to do at elevated temp.  120*F off the top of my head is ideal.  12-24 hours and you've got some good sour going for pH adjustments, 2 days and you'll likely have a thick pelicle on top too, and about as sour as you could want for anything and an awesome starter culture to pitch with your yeast into plain corn.

                                  The higher temp makes it ideal for the bacteria you want to grow, and less attractive to other bacteria, molds, yeasts etc.

                                  Crock pots work, but I found I had to just turn the heat and watch it until it was near 120, then turn the heat off for a couple hours.  Just leaving it on low cooks it too high and sanitizes out all your hard work.  A power controller on the crock pot works nicely though.


                                  On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? 

                                  Sent from my iPhone



                                • RLB
                                  I made some corn and oat malt and I noticed there was mold on some of my corn and oats.  I now add a few drops of dish soap to my containers while seeds are
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 22, 2013
                                    I made some corn and oat malt and I noticed there was mold on some of my corn and oats.  I now add a few drops of dish soap to my containers while seeds are soaking, and a few drops are added two day later.  Ever since I added a little dish soap, there has not been a mold problem.

                                    I noticed soap suds in a number of washes that was not removed while rinsing.  A little soap never seemed to hurt my wash, fermentation, or distillation, so some you may want to test using a drop or two of cheap dish soap in your wash.  It might help with any bacteria problems.  Just a thought.


                                    From: Zapata Vive <zapatavive@...>
                                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:45 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

                                     
                                    To be honest I haven't really done it enough times to say for sure, especially not the exact same way many times.  I can say without a doubt that keeping it warm makes it work faster.  I've cultured a lot of microbes in home/home-lab conditions though, and it seems that optimum temperatures for the desireable species are usually the best choice when that temp is not very close to ambient temps.  For example, f LAB optimum temp was, say 80*F, then under non-sterile conditions it might often be better to grow it a good bit cooler to slow down the variety of contaminates that also like 80*'s F.  But not a lot of organisms likely to be hanging around in the kitchen/shop/corn thrive at 120*F other than suitable lactos, so it's a pretty safe temp range.

                                    Also, the faster the LAB make their acid, the faster it becomes inhospitable to contaminants due to dropping pH.  That's happening within hours over 100*F.

                                    Anyway, those are my thoughts on it.  It seems to jive with lactic fermentation of foodstuffs too, but I haven't systematically tried to optimize it.  Heck, half the time when I optimize something, life gets in the way and it ends up sitting around anyway!


                                    On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                     
                                    Zapata,

                                    Did you find the higher fermentation temperature gave fewer "bad" cultures? Pint always suggest starting maybe three, because some will take an alternate microbial path and end up smelling like feet, so that's what I've always done. I don't recall now if I've ever had a bad one. It's been years since I did it, and I've got CRS.

                                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: zapatavive@...
                                    Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:50:31 -0400

                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Is sanitizing necessary

                                     

                                    Personally I found it easier, faster and more reliable to do at elevated temp.  120*F off the top of my head is ideal.  12-24 hours and you've got some good sour going for pH adjustments, 2 days and you'll likely have a thick pelicle on top too, and about as sour as you could want for anything and an awesome starter culture to pitch with your yeast into plain corn.

                                    The higher temp makes it ideal for the bacteria you want to grow, and less attractive to other bacteria, molds, yeasts etc.

                                    Crock pots work, but I found I had to just turn the heat and watch it until it was near 120, then turn the heat off for a couple hours.  Just leaving it on low cooks it too high and sanitizes out all your hard work.  A power controller on the crock pot works nicely though.


                                    On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Chris Davis <worm785@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    What is pintoshines souring method and where can I find it? 

                                    Sent from my iPhone





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