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RE: Re: [new_distillers] used barrels sold as planters as a source of oak wood for aging...

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  • jsducote
    Adding to this, you might be surprised how easy it is to find a lumber yard that carries specialty woods. ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com,
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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      Adding to this, you might be surprised how easy it is to find a lumber yard that carries "specialty" woods.



      ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      or go to your local saw mill ...
    • neohiobiker
      Jack Daniel s and other distillers will sell you a barrel ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, wrote: What s your experience
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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          Jack Daniel's  and other distillers will sell you a barrel



        ---In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        What's your experience been like?

        The set up:
        Gearing up towards doing my first run and I have been looking for sources of oak to age my future labors with.  Having read in many places that home depot is a easy/cheap source for used bourbon barrels (planters) I started there.  Among my choices were toasted barrels with red staining, presumably used wine barrels, and heavily (crocodile) charred barrels.  I assumed the charred barrels were previously used for whiskey, but I couldn't find any stamps or markings on the barrel to confirm my suspicions and a sniff test told me nothing.  So I drive away with a 1/2 barrel which ends up sitting in my car in the sun for a few hours as I did other things.  When I came back my car reeked of a strong odor that what I can only compare to vinegar, which makes me think that maybe the barrel had previously had red wine in it, I don't know.   I am working under the assumption that if I can smell something in this oak wood that I find distasteful, that it will likely be imparted to whatever hooch I age with it.

        The Question(s):
        Has anyone else gotten a barrel like this, and if so did you use it and what were your results? 

        Any other suggestions for oak sourcing you want to throw out there are appreciated!  Thanks -Jason
      • Paul
        Acetobacter, which feeds on ethanol, will form vinegar very quickly at raised temperatures - about 87F, or 31C in the presence of oxygen. Saw open a barrel,
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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          Acetobacter, which feeds on ethanol, will form vinegar very quickly at raised temperatures - about 87F, or 31C in the presence of oxygen. Saw open a barrel, put it in sunlight - voila. These bacteria are everywhere.





           
          Heres my take on it, if you don't know what was in the barrel.....don't use it!!!  You can buy new ones and char it ourself or even better yet, go to brewhause and buy toated oak chips and add it to your product in glass jars...works great for me and works fast!
           



        • RLB
          Normally I would agree with your statement, but I would like to see that bacteria survive in 40 abv + ethanol.  Yes that bacteria will produce vinegar when
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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            Normally I would agree with your statement, but I would like to see that bacteria survive in 40 abv + ethanol.  Yes that bacteria will produce vinegar when low level amounts of alcohol are present.  The real concern for this bacteria is when you are producing wort or wash.


            From: Paul <sudokuhater-b@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 4:15 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] used barrels sold as planters as a source of oak wood for aging...

             
            Acetobacter, which feeds on ethanol, will form vinegar very quickly at raised temperatures - about 87F, or 31C in the presence of oxygen. Saw open a barrel, put it in sunlight - voila. These bacteria are everywhere.





             
            Heres my take on it, if you don't know what was in the barrel.....don't use it!!!  You can buy new ones and char it ourself or even better yet, go to brewhause and buy toated oak chips and add it to your product in glass jars...works great for me and works fast!
             





          • Paul
            bacteria survive in 40 abv + ethanol. Correct me if I m wrong, but I don t believe that 40% spirits in the bottle or cask go sour, so this statement appears
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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              "bacteria survive in 40 abv + ethanol."

              Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that 40% spirits in the bottle or cask go sour, so this statement appears to be misleading. Anyway, vinegar formation requires the presence of oxygen. As for wort or wash, we are not talking about this, but about ageing spirits.

              I was just trying to say that the sawn-up barrel might still be good and not to give up on it too soon.

              Paul
            • Charles
              Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I m asking a question that has already been answered. OK, I
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 1, 2013
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                Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.


                OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.


                My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.


                Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.


                I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....


                I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?


                Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...


                Chuck F.
                NE PA
                μολὼν λαβέ
              • RLB
                Use a reflux or a fractional still and strip it of everything (oils and fuesals) when you are done stripping it then place it into glass jars with charred oak.
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 14, 2013
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                  Use a reflux or a fractional still and strip it of everything (oils and fuesals) when you are done stripping it then place it into glass jars with charred oak.  When its ready add distilled water to bring down its proof for drinking.  You can do the same thing with a pot still, but it will take three runs to do what a reflux can do in one.

                  You could make your wash out of sugar.  I think buckwheat (or one of those grains) is gluten free, so make whiskey out of buckwheat or that other gluten free grain. 



                  From: Charles <the_chuckmann@...>
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:37 PM
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Gluten free corn whiskey

                   
                  Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.

                  OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.

                  My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.

                  Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.

                  I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....

                  I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?

                  Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...

                  Chuck F.
                  NE PA
                  μολὼν λαβέ
                  __
                • Brendan Keith
                  And how is gluten, a protein, supposed to carry over in the distillation process? -- BK ... From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 14, 2013
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                    Message
                    And how is gluten, a protein, supposed to carry over in the distillation process?
                     
                     

                    --

                    BK

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Wrightson
                    Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:51 PM
                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Gluten free corn whiskey

                     

                    If I'm not mistaken, corn has gluten in it was well. But try sorghum, which gluten free.

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Oct 1, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Charles <the_chuckmann@...> wrote:

                     

                    Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.

                    OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.

                    My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.

                    Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.

                    I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....

                    I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?

                    Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...

                    Chuck F.
                    NE PA
                    μολὼν λαβέ

                  • Rick Wrightson
                    If I m not mistaken, corn has gluten in it was well. But try sorghum, which gluten free. Sent from my iPad ... If I m not mistaken, corn has gluten in it was
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 14, 2013
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                      If I'm not mistaken, corn has gluten in it was well. But try sorghum, which gluten free.

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Oct 1, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Charles <the_chuckmann@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.

                      OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.

                      My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.

                      Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.

                      I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....

                      I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?

                      Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...

                      Chuck F.
                      NE PA
                      μολὼν λαβέ

                    • Patrick Luke
                      As a celiac myself I ve put a fair bit of effort into making my own safe products. I ve found that when you triple distill you can produce a safe and very
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 15, 2013
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                        As a celiac myself I've put a fair bit of effort into making my own safe products. 
                        I've found that when you triple distill you can produce a safe and very tasty product. 
                        Incidentally a fair few of the commercial whiskeys are good to go for the same reasons.
                        but your milage may vary.

                        Corn is good to use; and as mentioned Sorghum, Rice, Buckwheat and loads of other grains.

                        Wheat, and Rye, Barley contains the bad stuff, 
                        and some wheat derivatives as well.

                        You can use GF beer recipes to get an idea of what can be used. most will need some help getting the alcohol up to be worth the time puttin in the pot.



                        On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:48 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                         

                        Use a reflux or a fractional still and strip it of everything (oils and fuesals) when you are done stripping it then place it into glass jars with charred oak.  When its ready add distilled water to bring down its proof for drinking.  You can do the same thing with a pot still, but it will take three runs to do what a reflux can do in one.

                        You could make your wash out of sugar.  I think buckwheat (or one of those grains) is gluten free, so make whiskey out of buckwheat or that other gluten free grain. 



                        From: Charles <the_chuckmann@...>
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:37 PM
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Gluten free corn whiskey

                         
                        Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.

                        OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.

                        My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.

                        Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.

                        I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....

                        I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?

                        Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...

                        Chuck F.
                        NE PA
                        μολὼν λαβέ
                        __




                        --
                        Patrick Luke
                      • Zapata Vive
                        Earlier this year I was at a.... I don t really know what to call it being that it can t be called by name. A small private festival? Maybe a huge weeklong
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 15, 2013
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                          Earlier this year I was at a.... I don't really know what to call it being that it can't be called by name.  A small private festival?  Maybe a huge weeklong party?  It's an annual thing thats been going on in the woods for decades.  Being in the woods, lots of people get bitten by ticks, a good portion of these people have had to deal with Lymes disease over the years. 

                          Anyway a couple thousand people, and probably a couple thousand jars of shine.  One person I met had Lymes so bad to have lost some major joints.  Anyway, in all of this they developed a severe reaction to gluten.  After strictly eliminating all gluten, shine was still found to trigger it.  Special gluten free shine didn't trigger it. 

                          I was personally suspect that gluten would possibly carry over into well made shine, but such was the testimony, and I can vouch for the quality of the shine, this was no commercial rotgut, it's the kind of event you bring your best to show off.

                          Unfortunately the person with the gluten intolerance wasn't the gluten free shiner, and it's incredibly difficult at this event to maintain enough focus to find any one specific person wandering around in the woods in the state we do, alas I was not able to get first hand info on the gluten free shine.

                          The point of it all is to tell Chuck that it can be and has been done.
                          As I told the guy in the woods, neutral made from sugar wash, and aged on oak would do it, though it certainly isn't the white dog grain whiskey preferred in my area.

                          I think corn in and of itself should be gluten free.  So I suspect the problem is that most shiners use feed grade corn that is not protected from cross contamination.  IE running on a conveyor belt that previously had wheat on it.  I'd be sure that any grain you use be labled as coming from a gluten free facility, though that will likely increase your cost substantially over feed grade grains.
                        • Blackhat-Whitedog
                          the great thing about Uncle Jesse s recipe is that it separates the flavor making from the alcohol making, the alcohol comes from the sugar the yeast get to
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 15, 2013
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                            the great thing about Uncle Jesse's recipe is that it separates the flavor making from the alcohol making, the alcohol comes from the sugar the yeast get to eat, and the grains add their flavor as they slush around in the alcohol...or maybe the acid levels that build up dissolve it out (the flavor gets better as the grains get used again the 2nd, 3rd, 4th batches but then the acid levels build up to interfere with the yeast so its a battle)

                            so you get the ease of the sugar shine and dad gets the flavor a nice corn whisky

                            I believe shiners call it a thin wash

                            ******
                            Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.



                            I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd
                            prefer corn whiskey....



                            I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy
                            access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some
                            personal experiences before I start....?



                            Any info with some personal experience would be
                            appreciated...



                            Chuck F.

                            NE PA

                            μολὼν λαβέ
                          • RLB
                            Rather than barley, try alfalfa sprouts, chick peas, or mung beans.  They are very high in the same enzymes as barley.  I am getting into the malting
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 15, 2013
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                              Rather than barley, try alfalfa sprouts, chick peas, or mung beans.  They are very high in the same enzymes as barley.  I am getting into the malting business, so I will be looking at producing gluten free malts now that the subject has come up.  At this time I have made corn, oat, and barley malts, with rye and wheat in the wings to start malting.  Finding organic alfalfa, chick pea, and mung this time of year has not gone well.  If I find something that will work well as gluten free malt, I will let everyone no what it is and where you can find the seeds in the US to malt yourself.


                              From: Blackhat-Whitedog <blkhatwhtdog@...>
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 12:02 AM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Gluten free corn whiskey

                               
                              the great thing about Uncle Jesse's recipe is that it separates the flavor making from the alcohol making, the alcohol comes from the sugar the yeast get to eat, and the grains add their flavor as they slush around in the alcohol...or maybe the acid levels that build up dissolve it out (the flavor gets better as the grains get used again the 2nd, 3rd, 4th batches but then the acid levels build up to interfere with the yeast so its a battle)

                              so you get the ease of the sugar shine and dad gets the flavor a nice corn whisky

                              I believe shiners call it a thin wash

                              ******
                              Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.



                              I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd
                              prefer corn whiskey....



                              I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy
                              access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some
                              personal experiences before I start....?



                              Any info with some personal experience would be
                              appreciated...



                              Chuck F.

                              NE PA

                              μολὼν λαβέ




                            • Rick Wrightson
                              I looked around and found the following about corn and gluten: Although corn, like wheat, rye and barley, does have a protein content it does not cause
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 16, 2013
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                                I looked around and found the following about corn and gluten:

                                "Although corn, like wheat, rye and barley, does have a protein content it does not cause harmful effects to the intestines of someone with celiac disease.
                                Therefore it is considered safe for celiacs to eat from a gluten perspective. However, many celiacs can have an intolerance to corn, so it is best not to rely on it too heavily as a substitute for wheat flour."


                                On Oct 15, 2013, at 7:38 AM, Patrick Luke <peluke@...> wrote:

                                 

                                As a celiac myself I've put a fair bit of effort into making my own safe products. 
                                I've found that when you triple distill you can produce a safe and very tasty product. 
                                Incidentally a fair few of the commercial whiskeys are good to go for the same reasons.
                                but your milage may vary.

                                Corn is good to use; and as mentioned Sorghum, Rice, Buckwheat and loads of other grains.

                                Wheat, and Rye, Barley contains the bad stuff, 
                                and some wheat derivatives as well.

                                You can use GF beer recipes to get an idea of what can be used. most will need some help getting the alcohol up to be worth the time puttin in the pot.



                                On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:48 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Use a reflux or a fractional still and strip it of everything (oils and fuesals) when you are done stripping it then place it into glass jars with charred oak.  When its ready add distilled water to bring down its proof for drinking.  You can do the same thing with a pot still, but it will take three runs to do what a reflux can do in one.

                                You could make your wash out of sugar.  I think buckwheat (or one of those grains) is gluten free, so make whiskey out of buckwheat or that other gluten free grain. 



                                From: Charles <the_chuckmann@...>
                                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:37 PM
                                Subject: [new_distillers] Gluten free corn whiskey

                                 
                                Hello! My name is Charles (Chuck), from NE PA, and I am fairly new to this list, so forgive me if I'm asking a question that has already been answered.

                                OK, I am an admitted newbie - a VERY newbie.

                                My question: My father has celiac disease. He cannot tolerate gluten. So I'm looking for a fairly easy, gluten free corn whiskey recipe.

                                Many recipes I've found use barley; which has gluten.

                                I know that I could just make sugar-shine, but he'd prefer corn whiskey....

                                I have the "Uncle Jesse recipe", and I have easy access to cracked corn - but I was hoping for maybe some personal experiences before I start....?

                                Any info with some personal experience would be appreciated...

                                Chuck F.
                                NE PA
                                μολὼν λαβέ
                                __




                                --
                                Patrick Luke


                                Slainté
                                Rick Wrightson
                                e: rick@...

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