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Phone a Friend

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  • Alli Bugger
    Hello All, We have a new plan that hopefully will appeal to some of this group.  It is called Phone a Friend - you know where that came from, right?   OK,
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2013
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      Hello All,
      We have a new plan that hopefully will appeal to some of this group.  It is called Phone a Friend - you know where that came from, right?
       
      OK, All you have to do is call an old buddy, a family member or an ex that you still speek with who liives in a different state than you.  Ask them if they would be willing to send our proposed legislation to one or both of their Senators (and any other congressional representative they wish).  The idea is to get 50 state coverage on getting the message to DC.  You can email it to them of copy it and mail it.  Don't forget that you need or have access to a color printer. If you  are having problems writing a cover letter (I am guessing that some folks are not sure what to say), let me know and I will send you a generic one.  I'll even address it to your senator(s).   
       
      Once the package has been mailed, you need to contact me either on this forum or at allibugger@... so I can add the Congressional names and date of mailing to the list of contacts.  I mailed two of these packages to friends over the weekend.  You can too. 
       
      Maybe when Yahooo gets its act back together and fixes the group sites, I will be able to post the spreadsheet on this site.  Otherwise you have to go to the Brewhaus Forum site. 
       
      Please help us get this done.   
       
      Alli 
    • Alli Bugger
      Hello Everyone, I just got a notice from a fellow hobby distiller in Nebraska who printed and mailed copies of our proposal to his Senators. Apparently there
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 4, 2013
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        Hello Everyone,
        I just got a notice from a fellow hobby distiller in Nebraska who printed and mailed copies of our proposal to his Senators. Apparently there are no home distillers in Pennsylvania since after all the asking, I got zero replies to send a copy to Senator Casey. Maybe the folks in PA don't have computers or color printers. Maybe they would rather sit back and let others do the work for them. Danger - don't walk behind an Amish buggy in that part of the country. What you step in may be the results of doing nothing. We will skin that carp another way.

        OK. Now it is Ohio's turn. You folks have two great Senators up there. Sherrod Brown and Rob Portman. Who will vonuteer to send them a copy of our very well written changes to 26 USC? Who will Phone a Friend in another state and ask them to mail it for you? I mailed a copy yesterday and it cost me $1.84. Is this effort worth $1.84 to all you home distillers in Ohio or would you rather keep looking over your shoulder? I think you Ohioians should stress to your Senators the potential for countless small businesses and jobs that will result from the passage of this legislation. Just look at how many wineries and microbreweries have popped up all over the country as a result of the regulation change in 1974 that allowed home brewing and wine making. This is a no-brainer win-win folks. Don't let us down like your neighbors did. As always, you know how to reach us for help. www.brewhausforum.com or allibugger@....

        Thanks,
        Alli

        From: Alli Bugger <allibugger@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:47 AM
        Subject: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
         
        Hello All,
        We have a new plan that hopefully will appeal to some of this group.  It is called Phone a Friend - you know where that came from, right?
         
        OK, All you have to do is call an old buddy, a family member or an ex that you still speek with who liives in a different state than you.  Ask them if they would be willing to send our proposed legislation to one or both of their Senators (and any other congressional representative they wish).  The idea is to get 50 state coverage on getting the message to DC.  You can email it to them of copy it and mail it.  Don't forget that you need or have access to a color printer. If you  are having problems writing a cover letter (I am guessing that some folks are not sure what to say), let me know and I will send you a generic one.  I'll even address it to your senator(s).   
         
        Once the package has been mailed, you need to contact me either on this forum or at allibugger@... so I can add the Congressional names and date of mailing to the list of contacts.  I mailed two of these packages to friends over the weekend.  You can too. 
         
        Maybe when Yahooo gets its act back together and fixes the group sites, I will be able to post the spreadsheet on this site.  Otherwise you have to go to the Brewhaus Forum site. 
         
        Please help us get this done.   
         
        Alli 
      • RLB
        I live in New York and I sent a note asking my Senators to support 26 USC that would allow hobby distilling. In PA, you are more likely to find real live
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 4, 2013
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          I live in New York and I sent a note asking my Senators to support 26 USC that would allow hobby distilling.

          In PA, you are more likely to find real live moonshines rather than hobby distillers.  There is a very big difference between hobby distilling and moonshining, so don't expect moonshiners to do anything that will draw attention to themselves.  Many of those new generation moonshiners have turned to Meth labs which are much more profitable.

          Remember that PA is a very large state that is 90% rural, and most of the rural state doesn't have Internet.  When I worked in PA, I was lucky to find cell phone service unless it was located a major state highway.  It's not fair to dump on PA because no one has contacted you over PA Senator's.  Remember that PA Government used to own every spirit store in the state, and there are 100 times more churches in the state than bars or private clubs that serve spirits.


          From: Alli Bugger <allibugger@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend

           
          Hello Everyone,
          I just got a notice from a fellow hobby distiller in Nebraska who printed and mailed copies of our proposal to his Senators. Apparently there are no home distillers in Pennsylvania since after all the asking, I got zero replies to send a copy to Senator Casey. Maybe the folks in PA don't have computers or color printers. Maybe they would rather sit back and let others do the work for them. Danger - don't walk behind an Amish buggy in that part of the country. What you step in may be the results of doing nothing. We will skin that carp another way.

          OK. Now it is Ohio's turn. You folks have two great Senators up there. Sherrod Brown and Rob Portman. Who will vonuteer to send them a copy of our very well written changes to 26 USC? Who will Phone a Friend in another state and ask them to mail it for you? I mailed a copy yesterday and it cost me $1.84. Is this effort worth $1.84 to all you home distillers in Ohio or would you rather keep looking over your shoulder? I think you Ohioians should stress to your Senators the potential for countless small businesses and jobs that will result from the passage of this legislation. Just look at how many wineries and microbreweries have popped up all over the country as a result of the regulation change in 1974 that allowed home brewing and wine making. This is a no-brainer win-win folks. Don't let us down like your neighbors did. As always, you know how to reach us for help. www.brewhausforum.com or allibugger@....

          Thanks,
          Alli

        • Alli Bugger
          RLB, Thanks for your reply - I was beginning to think there was no one out there.  I worked the eastern half of PA for 3 years, from the Susquehanna River to
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 4, 2013
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            RLB,
            Thanks for your reply - I was beginning to think there was no one out there.  I worked the eastern half of PA for 3 years, from the Susquehanna River to Philadelphia, but that was 20 years ago.  There were spots of poor cell phone service back then, however I suspect it has changed significantly since then. Email is available from many sources today, not just a cable to the back woods. 
             
            I am not dumping on PA, but I am trying to get someone's attention to our cause.  If I hurt their feelings I am sorry.  Is there anyone else but me trying to get the message out to the hobby distillers and to congress?  If there is, I have not seen a single email or post.  If you would like to help, send me the names of the congressmen/senators you sent the proposal to and the date you mailed them so I can add them to the list
             
            It may be true that there are more meth labs and professional moonshiners in PA then there are hobby distillers.  We have no interst in any of those groups.  They are criminals. I don't believe for one minute there are no hobby distillers in PA that would like to see the law cahnged.  Maybe they have not gotten the message or maybe they just don't care - you never know until you ask and that is all I am doing!  If you have any ideas on how to do a better job at this than I am doing, I would love to here them.
             
            Alli  
             

            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 3:53 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
             
            I live in New York and I sent a note asking my Senators to support 26 USC that would allow hobby distilling.

            In PA, you are more likely to find real live moonshines rather than hobby distillers.  There is a very big difference between hobby distilling and moonshining, so don't expect moonshiners to do anything that will draw attention to themselves.  Many of those new generation moonshiners have turned to Meth labs which are much more profitable.

            Remember that PA is a very large state that is 90% rural, and most of the rural state doesn't have Internet.  When I worked in PA, I was lucky to find cell phone service unless it was located a major state highway.  It's not fair to dump on PA because no one has contacted you over PA Senator's.  Remember that PA Government used to own every spirit store in the state, and there are 100 times more churches in the state than bars or private clubs that serve spirits.

            From: Alli Bugger <allibugger@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:15 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend

             
            Hello Everyone,
            I just got a notice from a fellow hobby distiller in Nebraska who printed and mailed copies of our proposal to his Senators. Apparently there are no home distillers in Pennsylvania since after all the asking, I got zero replies to send a copy to Senator Casey. Maybe the folks in PA don't have computers or color printers. Maybe they would rather sit back and let others do the work for them. Danger - don't walk behind an Amish buggy in that part of the country. What you step in may be the results of doing nothing. We will skin that carp another way.

            OK. Now it is Ohio's turn. You folks have two great Senators up there. Sherrod Brown and Rob Portman. Who will vonuteer to send them a copy of our very well written changes to 26 USC? Who will Phone a Friend in another state and ask them to mail it for you? I mailed a copy yesterday and it cost me $1.84. Is this effort worth $1.84 to all you home distillers in Ohio or would you rather keep looking over your shoulder? I think you Ohioians should stress to your Senators the potential for countless small businesses and jobs that will result from the passage of this legislation. Just look at how many wineries and microbreweries have popped up all over the country as a result of the regulation change in 1974 that allowed home brewing and wine making. This is a no-brainer win-win folks. Don't let us down like your neighbors did. As always, you know how to reach us for help. http://www.brewhausforum.com/ or allibugger@....

            Thanks,
            Alli

          • RLB
            Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web site?  How about some of the other distilling forum?  If new_distillers @ yahoo is your
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 4, 2013
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              Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web site?  How about some of the other distilling forum?  If new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big obstacle.  As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the laws changed.

              I send a message to my House Representative, so I will have to send the info to our  2 Senators. 


              From: Alli Bugger <allibugger@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:04 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend

               
              RLB,
              Thanks for your reply - I was beginning to think there was no one out there.  I worked the eastern half of PA for 3 years, from the Susquehanna River to Philadelphia, but that was 20 years ago.  There were spots of poor cell phone service back then, however I suspect it has changed significantly since then. Email is available from many sources today, not just a cable to the back woods. 
               
              I am not dumping on PA, but I am trying to get someone's attention to our cause.  If I hurt their feelings I am sorry.  Is there anyone else but me trying to get the message out to the hobby distillers and to congress?  If there is, I have not seen a single email or post.  If you would like to help, send me the names of the congressmen/senators you sent the proposal to and the date you mailed them so I can add them to the list
               
              It may be true that there are more meth labs and professional moonshiners in PA then there are hobby distillers.  We have no interst in any of those groups.  They are criminals. I don't believe for one minute there are no hobby distillers in PA that would like to see the law cahnged.  Maybe they have not gotten the message or maybe they just don't care - you never know until you ask and that is all I am doing!  If you have any ideas on how to do a better job at this than I am doing, I would love to here them.
               
              Alli  
               

            • jsducote
              I couldn t find a Yahoo group for this hobby. Perhaps there s a local Meetup... --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                I couldn't find a Yahoo group for this hobby. Perhaps there's a local Meetup...



                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Many of those new generation moonshiners have turned to Meth labs which are much more profitable.
              • Derek Hamlet
                ... I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political, organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be totally separate from
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                  At 08:11 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web
                  >site? How about some of the other distilling forum? If
                  >new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big
                  >obstacle. As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the
                  >distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the
                  >laws changed.

                  I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political,
                  organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be
                  totally separate from this site.
                  Why?
                  Because I believe that this forum provides an opportunity to express
                  opinions and facts about the technical aspects of getting from
                  ingredients to high quality product and as such provides a forum
                  where the politics of this subject do not encroach on our ability to
                  freely discuss these things. Bringing in politics dilutes that
                  process and draws unnecessary and unwanted attention.

                  Do we need a forum where people can discuss, organize, exchange ideas
                  about the bizarre laws that seem more than anything else to ensure
                  that those with power maintain power; you betcha. I'll be part of
                  it and want to work on getting these issues resolved; but not here.

                  My email is easily traced; I'm not that paranoid, but if I wanted to
                  do I could participate in a site where there is no way to be found;
                  assuming that the dogs of law are not wiling to stakeout the public
                  library to catch me with my very generic email address.


                  Derek
                • Alli Bugger
                  RLB, I been using Brewhausforum.com and New_Distillers.  I was unaware of artisan-distillers. I ll try to find others.  If there is a way to have the same
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                    RLB,
                    I been using Brewhausforum.com and New_Distillers.  I was unaware of artisan-distillers. I'll try to find others.  If there is a way to have the same messages go out to all of the different forums at the same time it would save time and get the same message out to everyone.  Good Idea. Thank you. 
                     
                    Alli

                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                     
                    Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web site?  How about some of the other distilling forum?  If new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big obstacle.  As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the laws changed.

                    I send a message to my House Representative, so I will have to send the info to our  2 Senators. 

                    From: Alli Bugger <allibugger@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend

                     
                    RLB,
                    Thanks for your reply - I was beginning to think there was no one out there.  I worked the eastern half of PA for 3 years, from the Susquehanna River to Philadelphia, but that was 20 years ago.  There were spots of poor cell phone service back then, however I suspect it has changed significantly since then. Email is available from many sources today, not just a cable to the back woods. 
                     
                    I am not dumping on PA, but I am trying to get someone's attention to our cause.  If I hurt their feelings I am sorry.  Is there anyone else but me trying to get the message out to the hobby distillers and to congress?  If there is, I have not seen a single email or post.  If you would like to help, send me the names of the congressmen/senators you sent the proposal to and the date you mailed them so I can add them to the list
                     
                    It may be true that there are more meth labs and professional moonshiners in PA then there are hobby distillers.  We have no interst in any of those groups.  They are criminals. I don't believe for one minute there are no hobby distillers in PA that would like to see the law cahnged.  Maybe they have not gotten the message or maybe they just don't care - you never know until you ask and that is all I am doing!  If you have any ideas on how to do a better job at this than I am doing, I would love to here them.
                     
                    Alli  
                     

                  • fatbloke
                    Top comment Derek...... I d also like to participate in a similar way, but when you consider how much money is raised from excise duty and other attached taxes
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                      Top comment Derek......

                      I'd also like to participate in a similar way, but when you consider how much money is raised from excise duty and other attached taxes in the UK, Norway, Sweden, etc etc.....

                      Its a major revenue raiser for them (check out tbe history of US prohibition and you'll appreciate this further).

                      While they might earn more from alcohol sales than say US or CA governments, the only country with recent form for changing this kind of rule is, as we're all well aware, is NZ.....

                      They seem to have some relatively recent political enlightenment,  which is rather rare among "Western Democracies"......

                      So a better place to chat about it etc, is probably, IMO, a fine idea......



                      -------- Original message --------
                      From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
                      Date: 05/09/2013 15:22 (GMT+00:00)
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend


                       

                      At 08:11 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      >Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web
                      >site? How about some of the other distilling forum? If
                      >new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big
                      >obstacle. As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the
                      >distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the
                      >laws changed.

                      I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political,
                      organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be
                      totally separate from this site.
                      Why?
                      Because I believe that this forum provides an opportunity to express
                      opinions and facts about the technical aspects of getting from
                      ingredients to high quality product and as such provides a forum
                      where the politics of this subject do not encroach on our ability to
                      freely discuss these things. Bringing in politics dilutes that
                      process and draws unnecessary and unwanted attention.

                      Do we need a forum where people can discuss, organize, exchange ideas
                      about the bizarre laws that seem more than anything else to ensure
                      that those with power maintain power; you betcha. I'll be part of
                      it and want to work on getting these issues resolved; but not here.

                      My email is easily traced; I'm not that paranoid, but if I wanted to
                      do I could participate in a site where there is no way to be found;
                      assuming that the dogs of law are not wiling to stakeout the public
                      library to catch me with my very generic email address.

                      Derek

                    • Alli Bugger
                      Flatbroke and Derek, Well I am damned if I do and damned if I don t.  We have a speciality site for this project at the Brewhausforum/Legalization thread.  I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                        Flatbroke and Derek,
                        Well I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.  We have a speciality site for this project at the Brewhausforum/Legalization thread.  I was simply trying to get the word and updates out to more peole interested in hobby distilling and getting it legalized so they don't have to keep looking over their shoulders. 
                         
                        I am sure there are some who would prefer that we take this cause someplace else so it does not clogg up the technical discussions of distilling.  On the other hand, if we all get together and get this this passed, it will go away forever. 
                         
                        There is no way that a site can be built that is secure from the federallies if so chose to check it out.  Most folks use a pseudo name and email address.  You obviously aren't paranoid or you would not use your real name. There is no way to take a poll on whether I should use this forum since many people are indeed paranoid and will not communicate with me.   
                         
                        BTH, I met with a represenative of VA Senator Warner this afternoon and delivered a copy of our proposal to her.  She promised to get it in the hands of the Senator on Saturday morning and to call me back next week. 
                         
                        Still trying,
                        Alli

                        From: fatbloke <fatbloke@...>
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                         
                        Top comment Derek......

                        I'd also like to participate in a similar way, but when you consider how much money is raised from excise duty and other attached taxes in the UK, Norway, Sweden, etc etc.....

                        Its a major revenue raiser for them (check out tbe history of US prohibition and you'll appreciate this further).

                        While they might earn more from alcohol sales than say US or CA governments, the only country with recent form for changing this kind of rule is, as we're all well aware, is NZ.....

                        They seem to have some relatively recent political enlightenment,  which is rather rare among "Western Democracies"......

                        So a better place to chat about it etc, is probably, IMO, a fine idea......
                        -------- Original message -------- From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> Date: 05/09/2013 15:22 (GMT+00:00) To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend  
                        At 08:11 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web
                        >site? How about some of the other distilling forum? If
                        >new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big
                        >obstacle. As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the
                        >distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the
                        >laws changed.

                        I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political,
                        organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be
                        totally separate from this site.
                        Why?
                        Because I believe that this forum provides an opportunity to express
                        opinions and facts about the technical aspects of getting from
                        ingredients to high quality product and as such provides a forum
                        where the politics of this subject do not encroach on our ability to
                        freely discuss these things. Bringing in politics dilutes that
                        process and draws unnecessary and unwanted attention.

                        Do we need a forum where people can discuss, organize, exchange ideas
                        about the bizarre laws that seem more than anything else to ensure
                        that those with power maintain power; you betcha. I'll be part of
                        it and want to work on getting these issues resolved; but not here.

                        My email is easily traced; I'm not that paranoid, but if I wanted to
                        do I could participate in a site where there is no way to be found;
                        assuming that the dogs of law are not wiling to stakeout the public
                        library to catch me with my very generic email address.

                        Derek

                      • Stephen Jarman
                        Hi Alli, et al, This is my very first reply/post. My first motive was to learn about the how-to of my particular equipment, recipes, idiosyncrasies of the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
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                          Hi Alli, et al,

                          This is my very first reply/post. My first motive was to learn about the how-to of my particular equipment, recipes, idiosyncrasies of the process,etc. And now I'd like to join the effort for legalization. Please send or advise where I can find the proposal so I may make plans to submit it to my rep in Maine.

                          Stephen

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Sep 5, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Alli Bugger <allibugger@...> wrote:

                           

                          Flatbroke and Derek,
                          Well I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.  We have a speciality site for this project at the Brewhausforum/Legalization thread.  I was simply trying to get the word and updates out to more peole interested in hobby distilling and getting it legalized so they don't have to keep looking over their shoulders. 
                           
                          I am sure there are some who would prefer that we take this cause someplace else so it does not clogg up the technical discussions of distilling.  On the other hand, if we all get together and get this this passed, it will go away forever. 
                           
                          There is no way that a site can be built that is secure from the federallies if so chose to check it out.  Most folks use a pseudo name and email address.  You obviously aren't paranoid or you would not use your real name. There is no way to take a poll on whether I should use this forum since many people are indeed paranoid and will not communicate with me.   
                           
                          BTH, I met with a represenative of VA Senator Warner this afternoon and delivered a copy of our proposal to her.  She promised to get it in the hands of the Senator on Saturday morning and to call me back next week. 
                           
                          Still trying,
                          Alli

                          From: fatbloke <fatbloke@...>
                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                           
                          Top comment Derek......

                          I'd also like to participate in a similar way, but when you consider how much money is raised from excise duty and other attached taxes in the UK, Norway, Sweden, etc etc.....

                          Its a major revenue raiser for them (check out tbe history of US prohibition and you'll appreciate this further).

                          While they might earn more from alcohol sales than say US or CA governments, the only country with recent form for changing this kind of rule is, as we're all well aware, is NZ.....

                          They seem to have some relatively recent political enlightenment,  which is rather rare among "Western Democracies"......

                          So a better place to chat about it etc, is probably, IMO, a fine idea......
                          -------- Original message -------- From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> Date: 05/09/2013 15:22 (GMT+00:00) To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend  
                          At 08:11 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >Have you placed this 26 USC message on www.artisan-distiller.net web
                          >site? How about some of the other distilling forum? If
                          >new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big
                          >obstacle. As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the
                          >distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the
                          >laws changed.

                          I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political,
                          organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be
                          totally separate from this site.
                          Why?
                          Because I believe that this forum provides an opportunity to express
                          opinions and facts about the technical aspects of getting from
                          ingredients to high quality product and as such provides a forum
                          where the politics of this subject do not encroach on our ability to
                          freely discuss these things. Bringing in politics dilutes that
                          process and draws unnecessary and unwanted attention.

                          Do we need a forum where people can discuss, organize, exchange ideas
                          about the bizarre laws that seem more than anything else to ensure
                          that those with power maintain power; you betcha. I'll be part of
                          it and want to work on getting these issues resolved; but not here.

                          My email is easily traced; I'm not that paranoid, but if I wanted to
                          do I could participate in a site where there is no way to be found;
                          assuming that the dogs of law are not wiling to stakeout the public
                          library to catch me with my very generic email address.

                          Derek

                        • Derek Hamlet
                          ... The point is that many of us do work actively on way to promote change to legislation and please remember this is an international group; not American. It
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 5, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At 01:30 PM 9/5/2013, you wrote:
                            >I am sure there are some who would prefer that we take this cause
                            >someplace else so it does not clogg up the technical discussions of
                            >distilling. On the other hand, if we all get together and get this
                            >this passed, it will go away forever.

                            The point is that many of us do work actively on way to promote
                            change to legislation and please remember this is an international
                            group; not American. It is not "our" cause. One of the most tiresome
                            aspects of the internet is the presumption on the part of "some"
                            American contributors that it is all about America. As much as I
                            love my cousins to the south of here, I don't have much time for
                            your political movements; we have our own fish to fry.

                            Derek
                          • Alli Bugger
                            Stevan, Thanks you for your interest in the legalization project.  The proposal is attached. You need a color printer for it to be efective (so you can see
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 6, 2013
                            Stevan,
                            Thanks you for your interest in the legalization project.  The proposal is attached. You need a color printer for it to be efective (so you can see the changes in current legislation that is the basis of the proposal).  We ask the you send it to one or both senators in your state and the House congressman/woman who represents your district.  In addition, if you don't mind, please let me know the names of the representatives to whom you send the proposal and the date it was sent - your name is not recorded. Thanks you your support.  If I can answer further questions, please contact me at allibugger@....
                            Alli

                            From: Stephen Jarman <sjarmann@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Cc: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:06 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                             
                            Hi Alli, et al,

                            This is my very first reply/post. My first motive was to learn about the how-to of my particular equipment, recipes, idiosyncrasies of the process,etc. And now I'd like to join the effort for legalization. Please send or advise where I can find the proposal so I may make plans to submit it to my rep in Maine.

                            Stephen
                            Sent from my iPhone
                            On Sep 5, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Alli Bugger <allibugger@...> wrote:
                             
                            Flatbroke and Derek,
                            Well I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.  We have a speciality site for this project at the Brewhausforum/Legalization thread.  I was simply trying to get the word and updates out to more peole interested in hobby distilling and getting it legalized so they don't have to keep looking over their shoulders. 
                             
                            I am sure there are some who would prefer that we take this cause someplace else so it does not clogg up the technical discussions of distilling.  On the other hand, if we all get together and get this this passed, it will go away forever. 
                             
                            There is no way that a site can be built that is secure from the federallies if so chose to check it out.  Most folks use a pseudo name and email address.  You obviously aren't paranoid or you would not use your real name. There is no way to take a poll on whether I should use this forum since many people are indeed paranoid and will not communicate with me.   
                             
                            BTH, I met with a represenative of VA Senator Warner this afternoon and delivered a copy of our proposal to her.  She promised to get it in the hands of the Senator on Saturday morning and to call me back next week. 
                             
                            Still trying,
                            Alli

                            From: fatbloke <fatbloke@...>
                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                             
                            Top comment Derek......

                            I'd also like to participate in a similar way, but when you consider how much money is raised from excise duty and other attached taxes in the UK, Norway, Sweden, etc etc.....

                            Its a major revenue raiser for them (check out tbe history of US prohibition and you'll appreciate this further).

                            While they might earn more from alcohol sales than say US or CA governments, the only country with recent form for changing this kind of rule is, as we're all well aware, is NZ.....

                            They seem to have some relatively recent political enlightenment,  which is rather rare among "Western Democracies"......

                            So a better place to chat about it etc, is probably, IMO, a fine idea......
                            -------- Original message -------- From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> Date: 05/09/2013 15:22 (GMT+00:00) To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend  
                            At 08:11 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote: > > >Have you placed this 26 USC message on http://www.artisan-distiller.net/ web >site? How about some of the other distilling forum? If >new_distillers @ yahoo is your only forum, then that is a big >obstacle. As a matter of fact, it would be easier if all of the >distilling forums were working together on this issue of getting the >laws changed. I come from a different perspective on this. If we need a political, organizational wing to promote distilling, then it needs to be totally separate from this site. Why? Because I believe that this forum provides an opportunity to express opinions and facts about the technical aspects of getting from ingredients to high quality product and as such provides a forum where the politics of this subject do not encroach on our ability to freely discuss these things. Bringing in politics dilutes that process and draws unnecessary and unwanted attention. Do we need a forum where people can discuss, organize, exchange ideas about the bizarre laws that seem more than anything else to ensure that those with power maintain power; you betcha. I'll be part of it and want to work on getting these issues resolved; but not here. My email is easily traced; I'm not that paranoid, but if I wanted to do I could participate in a site where there is no way to be found; assuming that the dogs of law are not wiling to stakeout the public library to catch me with my very generic email address. Derek
                          • Alli Bugger
                            Derek, You are absolutely correct.  I certainly have been guilty of assuming I was posting to a US audience instead of an international one.  I apologise. 
                            Message 14 of 14 , Sep 6, 2013
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                              Derek,
                              You are absolutely correct.  I certainly have been guilty of assuming I was posting to a US audience instead of an international one.  I apologise.  It is my understanding that Canada has the same sort of laws that outlaw distillation, however it appears that your government as you say "have other fish to fry" and pretty much leave the hobby distillers alone.  We in the US are being watched by Big Brother and we don't like it.  Changing the law is our only legal option.  Alli

                              From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:26 PM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Phone a Friend
                               
                              At 01:30 PM 9/5/2013, you wrote:
                              >I am sure there are some who would prefer that we take this cause
                              >someplace else so it does not clogg up the technical discussions of
                              >distilling. On the other hand, if we all get together and get this
                              >this passed, it will go away forever.

                              The point is that many of us do work actively on way to promote
                              change to legislation and please remember this is an international
                              group; not American. It is not "our" cause. One of the most tiresome
                              aspects of the internet is the presumption on the part of "some"
                              American contributors that it is all about America. As much as I
                              love my cousins to the south of here, I don't have much time for
                              your political movements; we have our own fish to fry.

                              Derek

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