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Re: [new_distillers] calvados

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  • ups474@aol.com
    I ve often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 3, 2002
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      I've often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless
      the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
      "village" still.), and then distilled. Bransy is the term reserved for
      wood-aged spirit, eau-de-vie is used on the unaged white spirit (like
      schnaps). That's how I've always made it, at any rate.
    • waljaco
      To confuse you even more, the English use the term scrumpy , cider (U.S.hard cider), and cider brandy ! See: http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228 The
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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        To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
        (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
        http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
        The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
        Wal
        'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
        villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
        produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
        same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
        flloding for example.

        -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Hello all,
        > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
        simple
        > matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4's of websites indicate that
        calvados
        > is produced by distilling apple cider. A minority holds that
        calvados is
        > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
        cider.
        > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
        interchangeably
        > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
        then
        > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
        > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
        travelling
        > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
        all
        > comers. Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
        hauling
        > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
        that
        > over into the still. Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
        along the
        > line they must have converted to liquid. Which was then duly
        distilled.
        > Any comments?
        > John V
      • Campbell Jones
        Yes Wal Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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          Yes Wal

          Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who once dabbled in the distillation of cider ( from Scrumpy Jack ) I once saw a still  in their head office window. I seem to remember a row over the name Calvados ( shades of Champagne ) so I think they packed it in.

          John V.   I was touring in Normandy a few years back and came around a corner in a very narrow lane and there on the grass verge opposite some farm buildings was what I first thought was a steam traction engine but turned out to be a mobile distillery stam up and in full swing   ...... fed by a rubber pipe which crossed the road. We were waved on over this which must have been the feed from the farm. So although the cider was portable John ( and potable ! ) the mountain still came to etc. etc.

          Regards to all

          Pactumuk 

          <waljaco@...>

          wrote:
          To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
          (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
          http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
          The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
          Wal
          'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
          villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
          produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
          same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
          flloding for example.

          -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
          wrote:
          > Hello all,
          > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
          simple
          > matter.  In fact, it is a muddle.  3/4's of websites indicate that
          calvados
          > is produced by distilling apple cider.  A minority holds that
          calvados is
          > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
          cider.
          > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
          interchangeably
          > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
          then
          > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
          > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
          travelling
          > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
          all
          > comers.  Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
          hauling
          > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
          that
          > over into the still.  Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
          along the
          > line they must have converted to liquid.  Which was then duly
          distilled.
          > Any comments?
          > John V


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        • John Vandermeulen
          Hello All, George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados distiller s set-up. http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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            Hello All,
            George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados
            distiller's set-up.

            http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
          • gerry g
            ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290 ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292 ...
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 5, 2002
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              --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
              > See:
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3299
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3305
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3442
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3951
              >
              > A useful site to find distilling information from
              > the Distillers List
              > (public) is http://archive.nnytech.net/
              > Wal
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen
              > <vandermeulen@n...>
              > wrote:
              > > Hello All,
              > > with the onset of summer and the expectation of
              > autumn not far
              > behind, I
              > > can already imagine the very large crates with
              > tons of new apples
              > at the
              > > roadside stands. So it is not too early to think
              > of trying for
              > calvados
              > > one more time.
              > > Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I
              > just searched the
              > > group.distillers list and really did not find
              > anything particular or
              > > technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van
              > Leuven/Holland.
              > > As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples
              > - add sugar if
              > necessary
              > > - ferment - distill slowly.
              > > There is little else that I can find. However, is
              > that it?
              > Ferment the
              > > juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux?
              > Distillation cut-off
              > temps?
              > > Age?
              > > John V
              >
              >


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            • marquee.moon
              This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating. Both are old Northern English varieties,
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                spoiling.

                I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                sits at.

                I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                read)

                Here's what I intend to do-
                With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                should be around 17% (ish).
                For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                hearts, 25% tails.
                Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                containers & collect tails until 96c
                Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                45% in small batches before re-blending.

                Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                How does this all sound?

                I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                appropriate.

                Thanks in advance for your help.
              • Andrew Bugal
                This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world. marquee.moon wrote: This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                  This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world.

                  "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote: This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                  My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                  Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                  are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                  are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                  used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                  pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                  or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                  champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                  1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                  ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                  yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                  to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                  gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                  bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                  the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                  windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                  making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                  The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                  spoiling.

                  I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                  ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                  little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                  I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                  medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                  pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                  to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                  sits at.

                  I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                  so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                  again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                  well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                  distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                  read)

                  Here's what I intend to do-
                  With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                  cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                  approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                  For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                  wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                  should be around 17% (ish).
                  For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                  then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                  The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                  hearts, 25% tails.
                  Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                  containers & collect tails until 96c
                  Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                  until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                  the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                  45% in small batches before re-blending.

                  Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                  using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                  keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                  and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                  cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                  different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                  kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                  How does this all sound?

                  I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                  appropriate.

                  Thanks in advance for your help.






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                • Robert Thomas
                  Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason: the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that smells bad. then
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                    Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason:
                    the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that
                    smells bad. then discard everything that tastes bad when diluted,
                    ordering the rest in order of goodness. then start blending.
                    Have aspirins ready for the following morning!
                    cheers
                    Rob.


                    --- "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote:

                    > This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.
                    >
                    > My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                    > Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                    > are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                    > are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                    > used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                    > pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                    > or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                    > champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                    > 1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                    > ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                    > yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                    > to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                    > gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                    > bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                    > the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                    > windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                    > making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                    > The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                    > spoiling.
                    >
                    > I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                    > ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                    > little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.
                    >
                    > I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                    > medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                    > pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                    >
                    > to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                    > sits at.
                    >
                    > I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                    > so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                    > again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                    > well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                    > distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                    > read)
                    >
                    > Here's what I intend to do-
                    > With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                    > cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                    > approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                    > For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                    > wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                    > should be around 17% (ish).
                    > For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                    > then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                    > The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                    > hearts, 25% tails.
                    > Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                    > containers & collect tails until 96c
                    > Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                    >
                    > until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                    > the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                    >
                    > 45% in small batches before re-blending.
                    >
                    > Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                    >
                    > using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                    > keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                    > and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                    > cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                    > different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                    > kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)
                    >
                    > How does this all sound?
                    >
                    > I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                    >
                    > appropriate.
                    >
                    > Thanks in advance for your help.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    Cheers,
                    Rob.

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