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Re: calvados

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  • waljaco
    See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2002
      See:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3299
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3305
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3442
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3951

      A useful site to find distilling information from the Distillers List
      (public) is http://archive.nnytech.net/
      Wal

      --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
      wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > with the onset of summer and the expectation of autumn not far
      behind, I
      > can already imagine the very large crates with tons of new apples
      at the
      > roadside stands. So it is not too early to think of trying for
      calvados
      > one more time.
      > Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I just searched the
      > group.distillers list and really did not find anything particular or
      > technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van Leuven/Holland.
      > As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples - add sugar if
      necessary
      > - ferment - distill slowly.
      > There is little else that I can find. However, is that it?
      Ferment the
      > juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux? Distillation cut-off
      temps?
      > Age?
      > John V
    • John Vandermeulen
      Hello all, When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a simple matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4 s of websites indicate that calvados
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 3, 2002
        Hello all,
        When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a simple
        matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4's of websites indicate that calvados
        is produced by distilling apple cider. A minority holds that calvados is
        the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard cider.
        To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie interchangeably
        with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but then
        confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
        As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a travelling
        distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill all
        comers. Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer hauling
        fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling that
        over into the still. Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere along the
        line they must have converted to liquid. Which was then duly distilled.
        Any comments?
        John V
      • ups474@aol.com
        I ve often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2002
          I've often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless
          the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
          "village" still.), and then distilled. Bransy is the term reserved for
          wood-aged spirit, eau-de-vie is used on the unaged white spirit (like
          schnaps). That's how I've always made it, at any rate.
        • waljaco
          To confuse you even more, the English use the term scrumpy , cider (U.S.hard cider), and cider brandy ! See: http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228 The
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
            To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
            (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
            http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
            The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
            Wal
            'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
            villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
            produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
            same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
            flloding for example.

            -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
            wrote:
            > Hello all,
            > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
            simple
            > matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4's of websites indicate that
            calvados
            > is produced by distilling apple cider. A minority holds that
            calvados is
            > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
            cider.
            > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
            interchangeably
            > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
            then
            > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
            > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
            travelling
            > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
            all
            > comers. Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
            hauling
            > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
            that
            > over into the still. Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
            along the
            > line they must have converted to liquid. Which was then duly
            distilled.
            > Any comments?
            > John V
          • Campbell Jones
            Yes Wal Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002

              Yes Wal

              Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who once dabbled in the distillation of cider ( from Scrumpy Jack ) I once saw a still  in their head office window. I seem to remember a row over the name Calvados ( shades of Champagne ) so I think they packed it in.

              John V.   I was touring in Normandy a few years back and came around a corner in a very narrow lane and there on the grass verge opposite some farm buildings was what I first thought was a steam traction engine but turned out to be a mobile distillery stam up and in full swing   ...... fed by a rubber pipe which crossed the road. We were waved on over this which must have been the feed from the farm. So although the cider was portable John ( and potable ! ) the mountain still came to etc. etc.

              Regards to all

              Pactumuk 

              <waljaco@...>

              wrote:
              To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
              (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
              http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
              The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
              Wal
              'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
              villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
              produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
              same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
              flloding for example.

              -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
              wrote:
              > Hello all,
              > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
              simple
              > matter.  In fact, it is a muddle.  3/4's of websites indicate that
              calvados
              > is produced by distilling apple cider.  A minority holds that
              calvados is
              > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
              cider.
              > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
              interchangeably
              > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
              then
              > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
              > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
              travelling
              > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
              all
              > comers.  Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
              hauling
              > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
              that
              > over into the still.  Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
              along the
              > line they must have converted to liquid.  Which was then duly
              distilled.
              > Any comments?
              > John V


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            • John Vandermeulen
              Hello All, George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados distiller s set-up. http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
                Hello All,
                George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados
                distiller's set-up.

                http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
              • gerry g
                ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290 ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292 ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 5, 2002
                  --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  > See:
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3299
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3305
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3442
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3951
                  >
                  > A useful site to find distilling information from
                  > the Distillers List
                  > (public) is http://archive.nnytech.net/
                  > Wal
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen
                  > <vandermeulen@n...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > with the onset of summer and the expectation of
                  > autumn not far
                  > behind, I
                  > > can already imagine the very large crates with
                  > tons of new apples
                  > at the
                  > > roadside stands. So it is not too early to think
                  > of trying for
                  > calvados
                  > > one more time.
                  > > Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I
                  > just searched the
                  > > group.distillers list and really did not find
                  > anything particular or
                  > > technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van
                  > Leuven/Holland.
                  > > As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples
                  > - add sugar if
                  > necessary
                  > > - ferment - distill slowly.
                  > > There is little else that I can find. However, is
                  > that it?
                  > Ferment the
                  > > juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux?
                  > Distillation cut-off
                  > temps?
                  > > Age?
                  > > John V
                  >
                  >


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                • marquee.moon
                  This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating. Both are old Northern English varieties,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
                    This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                    My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                    Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                    are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                    are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                    used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                    pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                    or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                    champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                    1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                    ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                    yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                    to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                    gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                    bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                    the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                    windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                    making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                    The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                    spoiling.

                    I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                    ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                    little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                    I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                    medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                    pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                    to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                    sits at.

                    I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                    so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                    again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                    well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                    distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                    read)

                    Here's what I intend to do-
                    With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                    cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                    approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                    For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                    wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                    should be around 17% (ish).
                    For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                    then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                    The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                    hearts, 25% tails.
                    Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                    containers & collect tails until 96c
                    Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                    until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                    the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                    45% in small batches before re-blending.

                    Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                    using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                    keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                    and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                    cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                    different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                    kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                    How does this all sound?

                    I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                    appropriate.

                    Thanks in advance for your help.
                  • Andrew Bugal
                    This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world. marquee.moon wrote: This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
                      This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world.

                      "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote: This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                      My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                      Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                      are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                      are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                      used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                      pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                      or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                      champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                      1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                      ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                      yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                      to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                      gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                      bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                      the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                      windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                      making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                      The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                      spoiling.

                      I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                      ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                      little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                      I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                      medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                      pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                      to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                      sits at.

                      I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                      so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                      again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                      well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                      distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                      read)

                      Here's what I intend to do-
                      With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                      cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                      approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                      For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                      wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                      should be around 17% (ish).
                      For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                      then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                      The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                      hearts, 25% tails.
                      Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                      containers & collect tails until 96c
                      Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                      until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                      the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                      45% in small batches before re-blending.

                      Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                      using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                      keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                      and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                      cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                      different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                      kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                      How does this all sound?

                      I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                      appropriate.

                      Thanks in advance for your help.






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                    • Robert Thomas
                      Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason: the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that smells bad. then
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
                        Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason:
                        the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that
                        smells bad. then discard everything that tastes bad when diluted,
                        ordering the rest in order of goodness. then start blending.
                        Have aspirins ready for the following morning!
                        cheers
                        Rob.


                        --- "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote:

                        > This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.
                        >
                        > My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                        > Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                        > are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                        > are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                        > used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                        > pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                        > or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                        > champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                        > 1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                        > ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                        > yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                        > to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                        > gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                        > bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                        > the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                        > windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                        > making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                        > The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                        > spoiling.
                        >
                        > I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                        > ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                        > little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.
                        >
                        > I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                        > medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                        > pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                        >
                        > to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                        > sits at.
                        >
                        > I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                        > so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                        > again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                        > well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                        > distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                        > read)
                        >
                        > Here's what I intend to do-
                        > With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                        > cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                        > approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                        > For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                        > wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                        > should be around 17% (ish).
                        > For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                        > then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                        > The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                        > hearts, 25% tails.
                        > Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                        > containers & collect tails until 96c
                        > Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                        >
                        > until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                        > the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                        >
                        > 45% in small batches before re-blending.
                        >
                        > Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                        >
                        > using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                        > keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                        > and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                        > cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                        > different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                        > kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)
                        >
                        > How does this all sound?
                        >
                        > I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                        >
                        > appropriate.
                        >
                        > Thanks in advance for your help.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        Cheers,
                        Rob.

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