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Re: >>Activated coal/carbon

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  • tgfoitwoods
    ...and I agree totally with both Yokel and Jim. Many distillers are carbon filtering to remove bad flavors that were created in the fermentation, sometimes
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 12 10:28 AM
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      ...and I agree totally with both Yokel and Jim.  Many distillers are carbon filtering to remove bad flavors that were created in the fermentation, sometimes from poor yeast nutrition and sometimes from some of the terrible-tasting turbos that are out there. No I don't remember which turbos are the worst offenders; I don't use turbos.

      I'm a firm believer that a ferment that takes good care of its yeast produces by far the nicest flavors.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
      >
      > I do agree with you about the perfection thingie, I was using it, the filter when I was using turbo yeast and was getting terrible, horrible tastes out of the product and the carbon filter removed all of that.  I now am just running ujsm and I'm just finished with the 5th run, actually right at the moment I am running brandy.  I had about 12 gallons of muscadine wine that did not turn out well enough to drink so I added 12 lbs of sugar and a packet of 1118 and two weeks later I'm running it.  I have a quart so far at 80% and smells really nice.  We'll see what happens in the end....cheers!
      > Jim
      >
      >  
      > yahoogroups.com 
      >
      > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:29 AM
      > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon
      >
      >
      >  
      > I would agree that there is a difference between water and alcohol affect on plastics. It does make a difference the specific type of plastic it comes in contact with. Since I'm basically too lazy to keep track of what is ok and is not, so I just avoid it. IMO it is much easier to adjust the ferment or process to avoid having the need for charcoal filtering. Though I probably don't seek perfection as strongly as some do.
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Jim,
      > >
      > > I can't argue with you about your success, but I can offer two notable
      > > exceptions to your "if it's ok for water, it'll work for alcohol".
      > >
      > > Thhe first is aquarium airstones that work forever in water, but
      > > disintegrate when used to oxygenate oaked spirits. The second is the
      > > plastic hydrometer jars that come with the brewer's triple-scale
      > > hydrometer; they work fine with wine, beer, wash, or water, but when you
      > > use them for distillate, they claoud and crumble, and you drink the
      > > stuff the plastic loses.
      > >
      > > This is not just theory; I used to be even stupider. [:)]
      > >
      > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
      > > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Well heres my answer to everyones concerns, I have been using it for
      > > years with no problems. Â I use the same pvc that is used for water
      > > pipes, hence food grade! Â The distillate is not hot when filtered,
      > > merely warm. Â I for one do not get too concerned by beliefs by many
      > > that "everything" is bad or is going to kill you. Â Cautious is one
      > > thing, over the edge on the right is another. Â Use your own common
      > > sense, if its ok for water, it'll work for alcohol...
      > > > Â
      > > > Jim
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > ----snip----
      > >
      >
    • michael raphael
      I don t and haven t used anything plastic in alcohol that isn t food grade, meaning its usually inpervous to the effects of alcohol. Im not sure about this
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 12 11:44 AM
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        "I don't and haven't used anything plastic in alcohol that isn't food grade, meaning its usually inpervous to the effects of alcohol."

        Im not sure about this one.  My understanding is that just because it is food grade doesn't necessarily mean that it is impervious to alcohol.  I usually go by materials of construction and compatibility charts.  Thoughts anyone?


        From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:53 AM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re:
        >>Activated coal/carbon

         
        Oh I know that there are some plastics that alcohol just totally destroy, to date the pvc is not one of them, at least that I can descern.  Dosen't mean that it does not happen but consider that the alcohol is only in it for about a hour or so, just while draining thru the carbon.  I don't and haven't used anything plastic in alcohol that isn't food grade, meaning its usually inpervous to the effects of alcohol.  just my thoughts use what you can of them and throw the rest away!
         
        Jim



        From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 9:43 AM
        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon

         
        Jim,

        I can't argue with you about your success, but I can offer two notable exceptions to your "if it's ok for water, it'll work for alcohol".

        Thhe first is aquarium airstones that work forever in water, but disintegrate when used to  oxygenate oaked spirits. The second is the plastic hydrometer jars that come with the brewer's triple-scale hydrometer; they work fine with wine, beer, wash, or water, but when you use them for distillate, they claoud and crumble, and you drink the stuff the plastic loses.

        This is not just theory; I used to be even stupider.:)

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well heres my answer to everyones concerns, I have been using it for years with no problems.  I use the same pvc that is used for water pipes, hence food grade!  The distillate is not hot when filtered, merely warm.  I for one do not get too concerned by beliefs by many that "everything" is bad or is going to kill you.  Cautious is one thing, over the edge on the right is another.  Use your own common sense, if its ok for water, it'll work for alcohol...
        >  
        > Jim
        >
        > ________________________________
        ----snip----




      • local yokel
        Fermentation is the key to good hooch... no doubt about it. the old saying garbage in - garbage out comes to mind. The biggest improvement I found for my
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 12 12:36 PM
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          Fermentation is the key to good hooch... no doubt about it. the old saying "garbage in - garbage out" comes to mind. The biggest improvement I found for my distilling was to allow the wash to "cold settle" for a couple days after fermentation ceases. This let's the yeast fall and a nice clear wash be heated. I could taste the difference immediately.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
          >
          > ...and I agree totally with both Yokel and Jim. Many distillers are
          > carbon filtering to remove bad flavors that were created in the
          > fermentation, sometimes from poor yeast nutrition and sometimes from
          > some of the terrible-tasting turbos that are out there. No I don't
          > remember which turbos are the worst offenders; I don't use turbos.
          >
          > I'm a firm believer that a ferment that takes good care of its yeast
          > produces by far the nicest flavors.
          >
          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
          > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I do agree with you about the perfection thingie, I was using it, the
          > filter when I was using turbo yeast and was getting terrible, horrible
          > tastes out of the product and the carbon filter removed all of that.
          > Â I now am just running ujsm and I'm just finished with the 5th run,
          > actually right at the moment I am running brandy. Â I had about 12
          > gallons of muscadine wine that did not turn out well enough to drink so
          > I added 12 lbs of sugar and a packet of 1118 and two weeks later I'm
          > running it. Â I have a quart so far at 80% and smells really nice.
          > Â We'll see what happens in the end....cheers!
          > > Jim
          > >
          > > Â
          > > yahoogroups.comÂ
          > >
          > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:29 AM
          > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon
          > >
          > >
          > > Â
          > > I would agree that there is a difference between water and alcohol
          > affect on plastics. It does make a difference the specific type of
          > plastic it comes in contact with. Since I'm basically too lazy to keep
          > track of what is ok and is not, so I just avoid it. IMO it is much
          > easier to adjust the ferment or process to avoid having the need for
          > charcoal filtering. Though I probably don't seek perfection as strongly
          > as some do.
          > >
          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@
          > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Jim,
          > > >
          > > > I can't argue with you about your success, but I can offer two
          > notable
          > > > exceptions to your "if it's ok for water, it'll work for alcohol".
          > > >
          > > > Thhe first is aquarium airstones that work forever in water, but
          > > > disintegrate when used to oxygenate oaked spirits. The second is
          > the
          > > > plastic hydrometer jars that come with the brewer's triple-scale
          > > > hydrometer; they work fine with wine, beer, wash, or water, but when
          > you
          > > > use them for distillate, they claoud and crumble, and you drink the
          > > > stuff the plastic loses.
          > > >
          > > > This is not just theory; I used to be even stupider. [:)]
          > > >
          > > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
          > > > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@>
          > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Well heres my answer to everyones concerns, I have been using it
          > for
          > > > years with no problems. Â I use the same pvc that is used for
          > water
          > > > pipes, hence food grade! Â The distillate is not hot when
          > filtered,
          > > > merely warm. Â I for one do not get too concerned by beliefs by
          > many
          > > > that "everything" is bad or is going to kill you. Â Cautious is
          > one
          > > > thing, over the edge on the right is another. Â Use your own
          > common
          > > > sense, if its ok for water, it'll work for alcohol...
          > > > > Â
          > > > > Jim
          > > > >
          > > > > ________________________________
          > > > ----snip----
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Harry
          Jim, Can you guarantee absolutely that what you have is actually PVC? PVC is being phased out. Many pipes these days are actually PP polypropylene. See if
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 12 12:37 PM
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            Jim,
            Can you guarantee absolutely that what you have is actually PVC? PVC is being phased out.
            Many pipes these days are actually PP polypropylene. See if there's a recycle stamp on it. PP has A "5" surrounded by a triangle of arrows. PVC has a "3".

            More info...

            Some cities only recycle certain numbers, while other cities will accept any plastics, regardless of stamp. Here is a brief rundown of what your plastics recycling numbers mean.

            Recycling Plastic #1:
            You'll see a PETE or PET stamped under the number one. This indicates that these plastics are made with polyethylene terephtalate; normally clear and generally safe. PETE is used most often in the manufacture of bottles that contain beverages: soda, water and sports drinks. Because these containers have a porous surface, they allow bacteria to accumulate over time. Consumers should recycle these plastics rather than reusing them as storage containers.

            Recycling Plastic #2:
            The HDPE stamp, along with the number two, can be found on milk jugs, juice bottles and detergent bottles. High-density polyethylene is normally opaque and considered safe. Almost all recyclers accept plastic #2.

            Recycling Plastic #3:
            Polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, is used for cooking oil bottles, plastic food wrap and plastic pipes. Plastic #3 is generally considered unsafe to be used near food that is being cooked! Consumers should never cook with food wrap or use it to store warmed food that will be consumed later or reheated. Some recycling centers will not accept PVC.

            Recycling Plastic #4:
            Under the stamped number four, you'll find LDPE, or low-density polyethylene. This type of plastic is used for plastic shopping bags and bread bags. The plastic, thanks to its flexibility, is also used to make squeezable bottles. Though the plastic is considered safe, it is often not accepted by recycling centers.

            Recycling Plastic #5:
            Polypropylene is found in yogurt containers, medicine bottles and condiment bottles. Most recycling centers will accept plastic #5 as it is generally considered safe.

            Recycling Plastic #6:
            Commonly known as Styrofoam, polystyrene has been well known to Americans for years. Not only used for plates and cups, Styrofoam can also be found in hubcaps and other goods. Plastic #6 is next to impossible to recycle and should never be used in the microwave as the plastic leaches toxic chemicals when heated

            Recycling Plastic #7:
            Number seven is the catchall category. The plastic can be found in iPhones, baby bottles, riot shields and even auto headlights. If you've heard of the recent concerns with BPA, you're not alone. This plastic, included in category seven, can leach chemicals, just as those found in category six. Many products are now labeled as BPA free to protect consumers and allow them to make smart buying decisions


            Glainte!
            regards Harry
            ===============


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
            >
            > Oh I know that there are some plastics that alcohol just totally destroy, to date the pvc is not one of them, at least that I can descern.  Dosen't mean that it does not happen but consider that the alcohol is only in it for about a hour or so, just while draining thru the carbon.  I don't and haven't used anything plastic in alcohol that isn't food grade, meaning its usually inpervous to the effects of alcohol.  just my thoughts use what you can of them and throw the rest away!
            >  
            > Jim
          • Jim Graves
            I know that there are no guarantees in life...the pvc that I have is years old and came from charlotte pipe in NC. It has stamps on it but beyond recognition
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 12 12:55 PM
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              I know that there are no guarantees in life...the pvc that I have is years old and came from charlotte pipe in NC. It has stamps on it but beyond recognition now.  The PP as I understand it is even better then pvc, don't know.  The best bet is to just use good yeast, be carefull with it, let it settle out, distill it slowly and drink hardily!!!!!
               
              Jim


              From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:37 PM
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon

               
              Jim,
              Can you guarantee absolutely that what you have is actually PVC? PVC is being phased out.
              Many pipes these days are actually PP polypropylene. See if there's a recycle stamp on it. PP has A "5" surrounded by a triangle of arrows. PVC has a "3".

              More info...

              Some cities only recycle certain numbers, while other cities will accept any plastics, regardless of stamp. Here is a brief rundown of what your plastics recycling numbers mean.

              Recycling Plastic #1:
              You'll see a PETE or PET stamped under the number one. This indicates that these plastics are made with polyethylene terephtalate; normally clear and generally safe. PETE is used most often in the manufacture of bottles that contain beverages: soda, water and sports drinks. Because these containers have a porous surface, they allow bacteria to accumulate over time. Consumers should recycle these plastics rather than reusing them as storage containers.

              Recycling Plastic #2:
              The HDPE stamp, along with the number two, can be found on milk jugs, juice bottles and detergent bottles. High-density polyethylene is normally opaque and considered safe. Almost all recyclers accept plastic #2.

              Recycling Plastic #3:
              Polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, is used for cooking oil bottles, plastic food wrap and plastic pipes. Plastic #3 is generally considered unsafe to be used near food that is being cooked! Consumers should never cook with food wrap or use it to store warmed food that will be consumed later or reheated. Some recycling centers will not accept PVC.

              Recycling Plastic #4:
              Under the stamped number four, you'll find LDPE, or low-density polyethylene. This type of plastic is used for plastic shopping bags and bread bags. The plastic, thanks to its flexibility, is also used to make squeezable bottles. Though the plastic is considered safe, it is often not accepted by recycling centers.

              Recycling Plastic #5:
              Polypropylene is found in yogurt containers, medicine bottles and condiment bottles. Most recycling centers will accept plastic #5 as it is generally considered safe.

              Recycling Plastic #6:
              Commonly known as Styrofoam, polystyrene has been well known to Americans for years. Not only used for plates and cups, Styrofoam can also be found in hubcaps and other goods. Plastic #6 is next to impossible to recycle and should never be used in the microwave as the plastic leaches toxic chemicals when heated

              Recycling Plastic #7:
              Number seven is the catchall category. The plastic can be found in iPhones, baby bottles, riot shields and even auto headlights. If you've heard of the recent concerns with BPA, you're not alone. This plastic, included in category seven, can leach chemicals, just as those found in category six. Many products are now labeled as BPA free to protect consumers and allow them to make smart buying decisions

              Glainte!
              regards Harry
              ===============

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh I know that there are some plastics that alcohol just totally destroy, to date the pvc is not one of them, at least that I can descern.  Dosen't mean that it does not happen but consider that the alcohol is only in it for about a hour or so, just while draining thru the carbon.  I don't and haven't used anything plastic in alcohol that isn't food grade, meaning its usually inpervous to the effects of alcohol.  just my thoughts use what you can of them and throw the rest away!
              >  
              > Jim



            • White Bear
              There are two items I would like to touch on: First, if you are really worried about the type of plastic you use in your filtering gizmos, just find a plastic
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 12 2:36 PM
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                There are two items I would like to touch on:
                First, if you are really worried about the type of plastic you use in your filtering gizmos, just find a plastic booze bottle (or a few) and use that to contain your carbon for filyering.  Around here they just throw them away, you can ask the bartender to save you a couple.
                Secondly, if you are having off flavors in your product maybe you should look at how fast you are distilling.  If I over power my still (pot still now) and do an initial stripping run, I can really tell the quality of the distillate, off flavors, yeasty, foggu looking strip.  I power down the burner and it clears up.  Just my two cents worth and my opinion, but I don't think I'm too far off.
                WB
                 
                 

                From: local yokel <stridemiester@...>
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:36 PM
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon
                 
                Fermentation is the key to good hooch... no doubt about it. the old saying "garbage in - garbage out" comes to mind. The biggest improvement I found for my distilling was to allow the wash to "cold settle" for a couple days after fermentation ceases. This let's the yeast fall and a nice clear wash be heated. I could taste the difference immediately.

                --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                > ...and I agree totally with both Yokel and Jim. Many distillers are
                > carbon filtering to remove bad flavors that were created in the
                > fermentation, sometimes from poor yeast nutrition and sometimes from
                > some of the terrible-tasting turbos that are out there. No I don't
                > remember which turbos are the worst offenders; I don't use turbos.
                >
                > I'm a firm believer that a ferment that takes good care of its yeast
                > produces by far the nicest flavors.
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
                >
                >
                > --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I do agree with you about the perfection thingie, I was using it, the
                > filter when I was using turbo yeast and was getting terrible, horrible
                > tastes out of the product and the carbon filter removed all of that.
                > Â I now am just running ujsm and I'm just finished with the 5th run,
                > actually right at the moment I am running brandy. Â I had about 12
                > gallons of muscadine wine that did not turn out well enough to drink so
                > I added 12 lbs of sugar and a packet of 1118 and two weeks later I'm
                > running it. Â I have a quart so far at 80% and smells really nice.
                > Â We'll see what happens in the end....cheers!
                > > Jim
                > >
                > > Â
                > > yahoogroups.comÂ
                > >
                > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:29 AM
                > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: >>Activated coal/carbon
                > >
                > >
                > > Â
                > > I would agree that there is a difference between water and alcohol
                > affect on plastics. It does make a difference the specific type of
                > plastic it comes in contact with. Since I'm basically too lazy to keep
                > track of what is ok and is not, so I just avoid it. IMO it is much
                > easier to adjust the ferment or process to avoid having the need for
                > charcoal filtering. Though I probably don't seek perfection as strongly
                > as some do.
                > >
                > > --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@
                > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Jim,
                > > >
                > > > I can't argue with you about your success, but I can offer two
                > notable
                > > > exceptions to your "if it's ok for water, it'll work for alcohol".
                > > >
                > > > Thhe first is aquarium airstones that work forever in water, but
                > > > disintegrate when used to oxygenate oaked spirits. The second is
                > the
                > > > plastic hydrometer jars that come with the brewer's triple-scale
                > > > hydrometer; they work fine with wine, beer, wash, or water, but when
                > you
                > > > use them for distillate, they claoud and crumble, and you drink the
                > > > stuff the plastic loses.
                > > >
                > > > This is not just theory; I used to be even stupider. [:)]
                > > >
                > > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                > > > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@>
                > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Well heres my answer to everyones concerns, I have been using it
                > for
                > > > years with no problems. Â I use the same pvc that is used for
                > water
                > > > pipes, hence food grade! Â The distillate is not hot when
                > filtered,
                > > > merely warm. Â I for one do not get too concerned by beliefs by
                > many
                > > > that "everything" is bad or is going to kill you. Â Cautious is
                > one
                > > > thing, over the edge on the right is another. Â Use your own
                > common
                > > > sense, if its ok for water, it'll work for alcohol...
                > > > > Â
                > > > > Jim
                > > > >
                > > > > ________________________________
                > > > ----snip----
                > > >
                > >
                >

              • jsducote
                Be careful: Old PVC may contain lead. According to the webs, CPVC can be used with ethanol, but if there are other alcohols in your distillate they may react
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 13 12:48 PM
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                  Be careful: Old PVC may contain lead. According to the webs, CPVC can be used with ethanol, but if there are other alcohols in your distillate they may react and leech something even nastier into your hooch. If you can't build yourself a copper carbon filter, do what someone else suggested and cut the bottom out of a cheap plastic bottle from the liquor store.

                  Charcoal filtering is, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. While not exactly the gold standard, Jack Daniel's makes no secret of their 10' column of drip filtering.
                  -j

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I know that there are no guarantees in life...the pvc that I have is years old and came from charlotte pipe in NC. It has stamps on it but beyond recognition now.  The PP as I understand it is even better then pvc, don't know.
                • tgfoitwoods
                  True enough, but activated carbon and maple charcoal are two entirely different beasts. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 13 4:55 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    True enough, but activated carbon and maple charcoal are two entirely different beasts.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Be careful: Old PVC may contain lead. According to the webs, CPVC can be used with ethanol, but if there are other alcohols in your distillate they may react and leech something even nastier into your hooch. If you can't build yourself a copper carbon filter, do what someone else suggested and cut the bottom out of a cheap plastic bottle from the liquor store.
                    >
                    > Charcoal filtering is, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. While not exactly the gold standard, Jack Daniel's makes no secret of their 10' column of drip filtering.
                    > -j
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jim Graves jimbull34@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I know that there are no guarantees in life...the pvc that I have is years old and came from charlotte pipe in NC. It has stamps on it but beyond recognition now.  The PP as I understand it is even better then pvc, don't know.
                    >
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