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calvados

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  • John Vandermeulen
    Hello All, with the onset of summer and the expectation of autumn not far behind, I can already imagine the very large crates with tons of new apples at the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2002
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      Hello All,
      with the onset of summer and the expectation of autumn not far behind, I
      can already imagine the very large crates with tons of new apples at the
      roadside stands. So it is not too early to think of trying for calvados
      one more time.
      Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I just searched the
      group.distillers list and really did not find anything particular or
      technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van Leuven/Holland.
      As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples - add sugar if necessary
      - ferment - distill slowly.
      There is little else that I can find. However, is that it? Ferment the
      juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux? Distillation cut-off temps?
      Age?
      John V
    • waljaco
      See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 2002
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        See:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3299
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3305
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3442
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3951

        A useful site to find distilling information from the Distillers List
        (public) is http://archive.nnytech.net/
        Wal

        --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Hello All,
        > with the onset of summer and the expectation of autumn not far
        behind, I
        > can already imagine the very large crates with tons of new apples
        at the
        > roadside stands. So it is not too early to think of trying for
        calvados
        > one more time.
        > Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I just searched the
        > group.distillers list and really did not find anything particular or
        > technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van Leuven/Holland.
        > As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples - add sugar if
        necessary
        > - ferment - distill slowly.
        > There is little else that I can find. However, is that it?
        Ferment the
        > juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux? Distillation cut-off
        temps?
        > Age?
        > John V
      • John Vandermeulen
        Hello all, When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a simple matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4 s of websites indicate that calvados
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2002
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          Hello all,
          When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a simple
          matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4's of websites indicate that calvados
          is produced by distilling apple cider. A minority holds that calvados is
          the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard cider.
          To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie interchangeably
          with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but then
          confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
          As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a travelling
          distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill all
          comers. Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer hauling
          fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling that
          over into the still. Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere along the
          line they must have converted to liquid. Which was then duly distilled.
          Any comments?
          John V
        • ups474@aol.com
          I ve often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 2002
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            I've often found that only the liquid is fermented (pomice will scorch unless
            the still is jacketed- very heavy, very expernsive, not likely in a mobile
            "village" still.), and then distilled. Bransy is the term reserved for
            wood-aged spirit, eau-de-vie is used on the unaged white spirit (like
            schnaps). That's how I've always made it, at any rate.
          • waljaco
            To confuse you even more, the English use the term scrumpy , cider (U.S.hard cider), and cider brandy ! See: http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228 The
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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              To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
              (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
              http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
              The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
              Wal
              'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
              villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
              produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
              same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
              flloding for example.

              -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
              wrote:
              > Hello all,
              > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
              simple
              > matter. In fact, it is a muddle. 3/4's of websites indicate that
              calvados
              > is produced by distilling apple cider. A minority holds that
              calvados is
              > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
              cider.
              > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
              interchangeably
              > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
              then
              > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
              > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
              travelling
              > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
              all
              > comers. Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
              hauling
              > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
              that
              > over into the still. Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
              along the
              > line they must have converted to liquid. Which was then duly
              distilled.
              > Any comments?
              > John V
            • Campbell Jones
              Yes Wal Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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                Yes Wal

                Another one is http://www.cidersurfersarms.com/ which is an offshoot of HP Bulmer http://www.bulmer.com/worldwide.html the original cider maker who once dabbled in the distillation of cider ( from Scrumpy Jack ) I once saw a still  in their head office window. I seem to remember a row over the name Calvados ( shades of Champagne ) so I think they packed it in.

                John V.   I was touring in Normandy a few years back and came around a corner in a very narrow lane and there on the grass verge opposite some farm buildings was what I first thought was a steam traction engine but turned out to be a mobile distillery stam up and in full swing   ...... fed by a rubber pipe which crossed the road. We were waved on over this which must have been the feed from the farm. So although the cider was portable John ( and potable ! ) the mountain still came to etc. etc.

                Regards to all

                Pactumuk 

                <waljaco@...>

                wrote:
                To confuse you even more, the English use the term 'scrumpy', 'cider'
                (U.S.hard cider), and 'cider brandy'! See:
                http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A575228
                The links to other U.K. sites are useful.
                Wal
                'Grappa' (from grape pomace) and 'slivovica' (from whole plums) in the
                villages is usually made from all the pomace or pulp in - this does
                produce more flavor, but will burn if precautions are not taken. The
                same with moonshine whiskey I gather. A clear wash is safer - no
                flloding for example.

                -- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                wrote:
                > Hello all,
                > When I began this search for a calvados recipe I thought it was a
                simple
                > matter.  In fact, it is a muddle.  3/4's of websites indicate that
                calvados
                > is produced by distilling apple cider.  A minority holds that
                calvados is
                > the distillate from fermented apple pomage (pulp) and not from hard
                cider.
                > To confuse things further, many use the term eau-de-vie
                interchangeably
                > with brandy, while others rigidly distinguish between the two, but
                then
                > confuse between eau-de-vie and brandy.
                > As I remember the stuff in Brittany/Normandy, once a year a
                travelling
                > distiller would haul his still from village to village and distill
                all
                > comers.  Now, I can not visualize the average Normandy farmer
                hauling
                > fermented apple mush (pomage) into the nearby village and shovelling
                that
                > over into the still.  Certainly for ease of handling, somewhere
                along the
                > line they must have converted to liquid.  Which was then duly
                distilled.
                > Any comments?
                > John V


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              • John Vandermeulen
                Hello All, George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados distiller s set-up. http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 4, 2002
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                  Hello All,
                  George791 came across this url, depicting a modern itinerant calvados
                  distiller's set-up.

                  http://jos.home.cern.ch/jos/calvados.htm
                • gerry g
                  ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290 ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292 ...
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 5, 2002
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                    --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                    > See:
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3290
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3292
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3299
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3305
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3442
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/messages/3951
                    >
                    > A useful site to find distilling information from
                    > the Distillers List
                    > (public) is http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    > Wal
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen
                    > <vandermeulen@n...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > with the onset of summer and the expectation of
                    > autumn not far
                    > behind, I
                    > > can already imagine the very large crates with
                    > tons of new apples
                    > at the
                    > > roadside stands. So it is not too early to think
                    > of trying for
                    > calvados
                    > > one more time.
                    > > Is there any wisdom out there re: Calvados? I
                    > just searched the
                    > > group.distillers list and really did not find
                    > anything particular or
                    > > technical except a Mar.21,2000 posting by Rob van
                    > Leuven/Holland.
                    > > As I understand the process: crush/mash the apples
                    > - add sugar if
                    > necessary
                    > > - ferment - distill slowly.
                    > > There is little else that I can find. However, is
                    > that it?
                    > Ferment the
                    > > juice or on the pulp? Pot-still or reflux?
                    > Distillation cut-off
                    > temps?
                    > > Age?
                    > > John V
                    >
                    >


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                  • marquee.moon
                    This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating. Both are old Northern English varieties,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                      This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                      My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                      Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                      are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                      are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                      used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                      pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                      or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                      champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                      1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                      ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                      yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                      to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                      gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                      bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                      the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                      windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                      making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                      The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                      spoiling.

                      I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                      ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                      little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                      I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                      medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                      pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                      to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                      sits at.

                      I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                      so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                      again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                      well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                      distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                      read)

                      Here's what I intend to do-
                      With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                      cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                      approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                      For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                      wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                      should be around 17% (ish).
                      For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                      then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                      The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                      hearts, 25% tails.
                      Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                      containers & collect tails until 96c
                      Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                      until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                      the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                      45% in small batches before re-blending.

                      Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                      using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                      keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                      and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                      cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                      different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                      kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                      How does this all sound?

                      I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                      appropriate.

                      Thanks in advance for your help.
                    • Andrew Bugal
                      This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world. marquee.moon wrote: This autumn, I m intending to make apple brandy. My
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                        This man could (dare I say it?) rule the world.

                        "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote: This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.

                        My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                        Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                        are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                        are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                        used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                        pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                        or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                        champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                        1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                        ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                        yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                        to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                        gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                        bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                        the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                        windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                        making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                        The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                        spoiling.

                        I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                        ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                        little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.

                        I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                        medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                        pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                        to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                        sits at.

                        I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                        so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                        again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                        well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                        distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                        read)

                        Here's what I intend to do-
                        With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                        cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                        approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                        For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                        wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                        should be around 17% (ish).
                        For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                        then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                        The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                        hearts, 25% tails.
                        Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                        containers & collect tails until 96c
                        Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                        until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                        the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                        45% in small batches before re-blending.

                        Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                        using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                        keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                        and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                        cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                        different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                        kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)

                        How does this all sound?

                        I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                        appropriate.

                        Thanks in advance for your help.






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                      • Robert Thomas
                        Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason: the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that smells bad. then
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 13, 2006
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                          Personally, I would collect everything in small bottles (within reason:
                          the hearts can go in one big bottle). then dicard everything that
                          smells bad. then discard everything that tastes bad when diluted,
                          ordering the rest in order of goodness. then start blending.
                          Have aspirins ready for the following morning!
                          cheers
                          Rob.


                          --- "marquee.moon" <marquee.moon@...> wrote:

                          > This autumn, I'm intending to make apple brandy.
                          >
                          > My cider is made from approximately 60% cooking apples, 40% eating.
                          > Both are old Northern English varieties, don't know what type. All
                          > are windfalls that have been collected and left to stand until a few
                          > are starting to rot slightly (these are removed and the rest are
                          > used). They're passed through the food processor to create a coarse
                          > pulp. On pressing this pulp, I gain around 1 gallon of juice from 3
                          > or 4 gallons of apples. I add nothing to the juice other than
                          > champagne yeast (Gervin No.3). The OG of this years fruit is around
                          > 1055- 1060, and fermentation goes off like a rocket. The cider
                          > ferments to dryness in around 7-10 days. The cider drops most of its
                          > yeast sediment after 2 weeks, so I rack-off into a sterile container
                          > to finish clearing. I always use 1 gallon jars, because 1 or 2
                          > gallons is about as much juice as I can press at a time before I get
                          > bored/ my partner wants the kitchen back, and because I'm limited by
                          > the number of windfalls I collect at any one time ( 7 gallons of
                          > windfalls for 2 gallons of juice). This means that the entire cider
                          > making season stretches from a early september until late November.
                          > The cider is `live' and I intend to distil it young to avoid
                          > spoiling.
                          >
                          > I add water & yeast to the dry pulp left from the first pressing ,
                          > ferment on the pulp for a few days before re-pressing and adding a
                          > little sugar- this makes a lighter `second pressing' cider.
                          >
                          > I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, which stands on a
                          > medium sized gas camping ring. A 28mm x 8 inch column rises from the
                          > pot to the liebigs condenser (also 28 mm internal), which is attached
                          >
                          > to the column via a screw fitting to adjust the angle the condenser
                          > sits at.
                          >
                          > I'm have more experience at making cider than I have at distilling,
                          > so I'd like to run this passed you. I've read, re-read, and read
                          > again the home-distiller, searched both yahoo distilling forums, as
                          > well as the home distilling forum, and read the art of artisan
                          > distilling, recommended by Harry in some previous posts (very good
                          > read)
                          >
                          > Here's what I intend to do-
                          > With a total of 6 gallons of cider, I intend to run 2 gallons of
                          > cider at a time, and do 3 first-distillation runs, collecting
                          > approximately 3 litres from each run, not discarding heads.
                          > For the second distillation, I hope to have around 2 gallons of low-
                          > wines (feints). Based on the calculations on Home-Distiller, this
                          > should be around 17% (ish).
                          > For the cuts on the second run, I'm thinking about 200ml for heads,
                          > then I have 3 alternatives previously suggested:
                          > The artisan distiller suggests calvados cuts as 1.5% heads, 30%
                          > hearts, 25% tails.
                          > Home-distiller suggests I collect hearts until 90-92c, then swap
                          > containers & collect tails until 96c
                          > Harry has previously given two other alternatives- collect everything
                          >
                          > until 50% as recorded by hydrometer, then smell & taste when to make
                          > the cut. Or Collect everything to 60%, and then collect between 60% &
                          >
                          > 45% in small batches before re-blending.
                          >
                          > Because I've never distilled cider before, I'm not really happy about
                          >
                          > using the temperature rule-of-thumb, so what I'm figuring on is
                          > keeping an eye on how much I've collected, keeping an on the %ABV,
                          > and observing the temperature. When I get close, I'll try to make
                          > cuts based on taste & smell, and keep the different volumes in
                          > different containers so if I overshoot, I've not lost everything ( a
                          > kind of mix of Harry's two alternatives)
                          >
                          > How does this all sound?
                          >
                          > I'm particularly interested in making sure the amount of heads cut is
                          >
                          > appropriate.
                          >
                          > Thanks in advance for your help.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          Cheers,
                          Rob.

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