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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Penalties

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  • Jim Graves
    Well if y all are wrong, so am I, count me in!   James D. Graves ________________________________ From: tgfoitwoods To:
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 8, 2013
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      Well if y'all are wrong, so am I, count me in!
       
      James D. Graves



      From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 1:51 PM
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Penalties

       
      Wes and Local,

      Whether I'm right or wrong, I made the same decision you two are advocating, maybe 35 years ago. It seemed to make sense then, for the reasons you state, and it seems to make sense now.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "local yokel" <stridemiester@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would agree 100%. Just like running off road diesel in your pickup on the highway. If they catch ya, it's gonna be bad because you are breaking trust with the set up system to give legitimate users a legal break from road taxes.
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Wes Deviers wes@ wrote:
      > >
      > > I have heard (which is to say, this is hearsay, mind) is that failing to
      > > render fuel alcohol undrinkable is actually much worse than your first
      > > couple of convictions for illegal distillation. The main problem is
      > > that, once you get the license, you can be inspected at random *and*
      > > have less leeway with judges. Does it make more sense to go stealth on
      > > the small scale? If you're selling, it's going to be bad either way,
      > > and it seems like the legitimate license will just make it that much
      > > worse when you eventually get caught.
      > >
      > > I considered this path (in Virginia). If, for some reason, law
      > > enforcement finds my tiny device heating up in the kitchen, I already
      > > have other problems because I can promise that is *not* why they're
      > > searching my house. But if I apply for a fuel permit and then casually
      > > ignore the "render it unconsumable" aspects...somebody shows up to check
      > > on that at least once.
      > >
      > > My logic may be totally wrong, so I appreciate thoughts on that.
      > >
      > > WD
      > >
      > > On 03/08/2013 12:38 PM, White Bear wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tom-
      > > > If you are really concerned with the legalities of distilling small amounts, file for your alternative fuel license. Then you are sure to be legal. It is not really that difficult to fill out the forms.
      > > > WB
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: Thomas stought1@
      > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 8:48 AM
      > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Penalties
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hello,everyone!
      > > > I have had some fun trying distillation and reading this forum, then it sunk in that I am actually committing a felony.
      > > > Anyone have any interaction with the law? What kind of penalties should be expected? Felons lose rights, and I don't want that.
      > > > How about the class D Farmers license to distill? Any experience with that?
      > > > Thanks again,
      > > > Tom
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >


    • Lee Goodman
      As a complete newbie, I went to my local brewshop to find out whether they stocked the various grains that I plan to use. The salesman asked me whether I
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 8, 2013
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        As a complete newbie, I went to my local brewshop to find out whether they stocked the various grains that I plan to use.  The salesman asked me whether I planned on getting a license and I said no, that I was just experimenting.  He then got very serious and told me that he was an ATF agent during the week.  I was reasonably surprised, but then he grinned at me and assure me that the agents had better things to do rather than harass hobbyists.  He couldn't have been more encouraging.

        Lee

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Mar 8, 2013, at 2:51 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:

        Wes and Local,

        Whether I'm right or wrong, I made the same decision you two are advocating, maybe 35 years ago. It seemed to make sense then, for the reasons you state, and it seems to make sense now.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "local yokel" <stridemiester@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would agree 100%. Just like running off road diesel in your pickup on the highway. If they catch ya, it's gonna be bad because you are breaking trust with the set up system to give legitimate users a legal break from road taxes.
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Wes Deviers wes@ wrote:
        > >
        > > I have heard (which is to say, this is hearsay, mind) is that failing to
        > > render fuel alcohol undrinkable is actually much worse than your first
        > > couple of c onvictions for illegal distillation. The main problem is
        > > that, once you get the license, you can be inspected at random *and*
        > > have less leeway with judges. Does it make more sense to go stealth on
        > > the small scale? If you're selling, it's going to be bad either way,
        > > and it seems like the legitimate license will just make it that much
        > > worse when you eventually get caught.
        > >
        > > I considered this path (in Virginia). If, for some reason, law
        > > enforcement finds my tiny device heating up in the kitchen, I already
        > > have other problems because I can promise that is *not* why they're
        > > searching my house. But if I apply for a fuel permit and then casually
        > > ignore the "render it unconsumable" aspects...somebody shows up to check
        > > on that at least once.
        > >
        > > My logic may be totally wrong, so I appreciate thoughts on that.
        > >
        > > WD
        > >
        > > On 03/08/2013 12:38 PM, White Bear wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Tom-
        > > > If you are really concerned with the legalities of distilling small amounts, file for your alternative fuel license. Then you are sure to be legal. It is not really that difficult to fill out the forms.
        > > > WB
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: Thomas stought1@
        > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 8:48 AM
        > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Penalties
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello,everyone!
        > > > I have had some fun trying distillation and reading this forum, then it sunk in that I am actually committing a felony.
        > > > Anyone have a ny interaction with the law? What kind of penalties should be expected? Felons lose rights, and I don't want that.
        > > > How about the class D Farmers license to distill? Any experience with that?
        > > > Thanks again,
        > > > Tom
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Chris Cameron
        Isn t it easier to ask forgiveness than ask for permission?
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 8, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than ask for permission?

          On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
           

          Well if y'all are wrong, so am I, count me in!
           
          James D. Graves



          From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 1:51 PM
          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Penalties

           
          Wes and Local,

          Whether I'm right or wrong, I made the same decision you two are advocating, maybe 35 years ago. It seemed to make sense then, for the reasons you state, and it seems to make sense now.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "local yokel" <stridemiester@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would agree 100%. Just like running off road diesel in your pickup on the highway. If they catch ya, it's gonna be bad because you are breaking trust with the set up system to give legitimate users a legal break from road taxes.
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Wes Deviers wes@ wrote:
          > >
          > > I have heard (which is to say, this is hearsay, mind) is that failing to
          > > render fuel alcohol undrinkable is actually much worse than your first
          > > couple of convictions for illegal distillation. The main problem is
          > > that, once you get the license, you can be inspected at random *and*
          > > have less leeway with judges. Does it make more sense to go stealth on
          > > the small scale? If you're selling, it's going to be bad either way,
          > > and it seems like the legitimate license will just make it that much
          > > worse when you eventually get caught.
          > >
          > > I considered this path (in Virginia). If, for some reason, law
          > > enforcement finds my tiny device heating up in the kitchen, I already
          > > have other problems because I can promise that is *not* why they're
          > > searching my house. But if I apply for a fuel permit and then casually
          > > ignore the "render it unconsumable" aspects...somebody shows up to check
          > > on that at least once.
          > >
          > > My logic may be totally wrong, so I appreciate thoughts on that.
          > >
          > > WD
          > >
          > > On 03/08/2013 12:38 PM, White Bear wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Tom-
          > > > If you are really concerned with the legalities of distilling small amounts, file for your alternative fuel license. Then you are sure to be legal. It is not really that difficult to fill out the forms.
          > > > WB
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ________________________________
          > > > From: Thomas stought1@
          > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 8:48 AM
          > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Penalties
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hello,everyone!
          > > > I have had some fun trying distillation and reading this forum, then it sunk in that I am actually committing a felony.
          > > > Anyone have any interaction with the law? What kind of penalties should be expected? Felons lose rights, and I don't want that.
          > > > How about the class D Farmers license to distill? Any experience with that?
          > > > Thanks again,
          > > > Tom
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >



        • Ed Barcik
          They may be too busy with other things. http://www.ttb.gov/statistics/95newa08.htm
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 9, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            They may be too busy with other things.

             

            http://www.ttb.gov/statistics/95newa08.htm

             

          • local yokel
            I m a big believer in the forgiveness theory of getting things done, but IMO the lawdogs aren t going to buy into that operational tactic. If they are standing
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 9, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm a big believer in the forgiveness theory of getting things done, but IMO the lawdogs aren't going to buy into that operational tactic. If they are standing in front of your still, things are way beyond the "I'm sorry" point. Something drastic has happened or they won't bother with you.

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Cameron <gonagin58@...> wrote:
              >
              > Isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than ask for permission?
              >
              > On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Well if y'all are wrong, so am I, count me in!
              > >
              > > James D. Graves
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------
              > > *From:* tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
              > > *To:* new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > > *Sent:* Friday, March 8, 2013 1:51 PM
              > > *Subject:* [new_distillers] Re: Penalties
              > >
              > >
              > > Wes and Local,
              > >
              > > Whether I'm right or wrong, I made the same decision you two are
              > > advocating, maybe 35 years ago. It seemed to make sense then, for the
              > > reasons you state, and it seems to make sense now.
              > >
              > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller *Making Fine Spirits*<http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "local yokel" <stridemiester@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I would agree 100%. Just like running off road diesel in your pickup on
              > > the highway. If they catch ya, it's gonna be bad because you are breaking
              > > trust with the set up system to give legitimate users a legal break from
              > > road taxes.
              > > >
              > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Wes Deviers wes@ wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I have heard (which is to say, this is hearsay, mind) is that failing
              > > to
              > > > > render fuel alcohol undrinkable is actually much worse than your first
              > > > > couple of convictions for illegal distillation. The main problem is
              > > > > that, once you get the license, you can be inspected at random *and*
              > > > > have less leeway with judges. Does it make more sense to go stealth on
              > > > > the small scale? If you're selling, it's going to be bad either way,
              > > > > and it seems like the legitimate license will just make it that much
              > > > > worse when you eventually get caught.
              > > > >
              > > > > I considered this path (in Virginia). If, for some reason, law
              > > > > enforcement finds my tiny device heating up in the kitchen, I already
              > > > > have other problems because I can promise that is *not* why they're
              > > > > searching my house. But if I apply for a fuel permit and then casually
              > > > > ignore the "render it unconsumable" aspects...somebody shows up to
              > > check
              > > > > on that at least once.
              > > > >
              > > > > My logic may be totally wrong, so I appreciate thoughts on that.
              > > > >
              > > > > WD
              > > > >
              > > > > On 03/08/2013 12:38 PM, White Bear wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Tom-
              > > > > > If you are really concerned with the legalities of distilling small
              > > amounts, file for your alternative fuel license. Then you are sure to be
              > > legal. It is not really that difficult to fill out the forms.
              > > > > > WB
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ________________________________
              > > > > > From: Thomas stought1@
              > > > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 8:48 AM
              > > > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Penalties
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hello,everyone!
              > > > > > I have had some fun trying distillation and reading this forum, then
              > > it sunk in that I am actually committing a felony.
              > > > > > Anyone have any interaction with the law? What kind of penalties
              > > should be expected? Felons lose rights, and I don't want that.
              > > > > > How about the class D Farmers license to distill? Any experience
              > > with that?
              > > > > > Thanks again,
              > > > > > Tom
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
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