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Re: [new_distillers] Forum abuse

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  • fermin Alarcon
    awrite already stop before someone calls you a couple of !@#$ ... assumption.  Since this forum is not in place to share information and ideas, I will
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 6, 2013
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      awrite already stop before someone calls you a couple of !@#$


      From: Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 3:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Forum abuse

       
      I for one am interested about your process Robert. If you are going to stop posting to the forum, would you at least let me know personally how it worked out?
       
      Thanks

      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Forum abuse
       
      I agree with you that 4% abv was an error read on a web site that for some reason stuck.  Homedistiller.org stated it closer to 17% abv.  even my own experience I achieved 19% abv with bakers yeast.  Believe it our not I don't mind being corrected when I make an error.  I am not insulted when I am being corrected, and I freely admit when I am wrong.  How do I learn something new if you read one thing and other people with experience say something else? I am new to distilling, and most of what I know comes from what I have read on web sites.  Yes, I have done 6 or 7 stripping runs and 1 finish run, but that does not mean that I am an old timer with 10 generations worth of experience.  The only way that I will ever know what I read is correct, is when I share it with others.  If I am not corrected then the information I read is correct. I repeat: I thought this forum was based on sharing information and ideas!  I guess I was incorrect in that assumption.  Since this forum is not in place to share information and ideas, I will continue to read this forum to gleam information, but I will go silent on my information and ideas.  For the people who think I am involved in a scam to get your money.  This will be my last post. Robert


      From: Bill Rogers <bill.rogers@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Forum abuse
       
      Robert, I would tend to believe that most of the people on this list are doubtful of your research and "experiments" because the majority of your posts are full of misinformation.   An example would be when you claimed that bakers yeast couldn't go higher then 4% abv in a wash, which is just plain wrong.  I don't intend for this post to be mean or to dissuade you form you enjoying your experiments.  I intend for it only to reinforce what others are saying and do your due diligence in research before trying to re-invent the wheel. 

      good luck! 
      On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
       
      Keep your money.  All I care about is increasing the rate and reducing the amount of time it takes me to distill my wash.  To me, the whole distillation process is based in the stone age, and something needs to change to improve the distillation process. Robert


      From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:24 PM
      Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Forum abuse
       
      At 09:13 AM 3/6/2013, you wrote: > >
      >No, it's a revolutionary new process that is so earth-shaking that >it is being surpressed by the big-liquor cabal.
      OH snork! How many times have we heard that out of the auto industry. I once bought one of those inline magnetic thingamabobs that aligns the molecules in gasoline to increase mileage by more than 25%. I didn't work, but when I adapted it to fit on my refraction column, output increased 25 %, it produced 150% abv output and flavours were enhanced. If you believe that, please send your cheque to............................................... Derek


    • James Gates
      Please someone email me when the discussion returns to distilling. Please someone email me when the discussion returns to distilling.
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 6, 2013
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        Please someone email me when the discussion returns to distilling.
      • tgfoitwoods
        Wow! Let a guy stay away from the forum for a while and the natives get frisky! A couple of important things - many of us have had a shot at Robert s
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 6, 2013
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          Wow! Let a guy stay away from the forum for a while and the natives get frisky!

          A couple of important things - many of us have had a shot at Robert's ethanol-water separation ideas, and I think there's no gain in continuing the negative comments on a yet-to-be tried process about which all of us, except Robert, know nothing. For my part, I'm as sceptical as many, but I'm looking forward to hearing the progression of Robert's experimentation, if he chooses to share it with us.

          As for banning, I'm trying to remember if it's ever happened on this list; I think not. It's certainly not common, anyway, although serious trolling could put enough people over the edge to raise a hue and cry.

          It's true that there are a few long-timers on the list who have between them many decades of distilling, but we're generally tolerant of new ideas, as long as they are not based on proven-wrong principles. Dunno about the rest, but I'm not terribly happy with a lot of name-calling, although I'll certainly jump in to correct incorrect physics, chemistry, or basic distilling untruths.

          So I'm uncharacteristically invoking the forum's "play nice rule". It can't hurt, and it'll keep this a pleasant place to frequent, and Robert? ...keep us posted on what you're doing and what results you get.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits



          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, TODP <danimae@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Don't let 'em get to ya Robert.. they got to me early also.. I just
          > posted a reply to one of your last notes!! Slim crowd here!! I am
          > SURE I will be banned from now on just because I ruffled some feathers!!
          > As well as YOU now!!! Ya dare NOT say ANYTHING against the regulars!!
          >
          > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:02 PM, RLB wrote:
          >
          ----snip----
        • White Bear
          ZBob and Robert-   I personally want to thank you ZBob for this reply.  Although I am relativily a new member on this group, I am by no means a greenhorn to
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 7, 2013
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            ZBob and Robert-
              I personally want to thank you ZBob for this reply.  Although I am relativily a new member on this group, I am by no means a greenhorn to distilling it is in my heritage and I have seen it done in the backwoods as well as being privvy to some pretty nice, modern designs.
              Robert, keep on doing what you're doing and don't let others sway you from your experiments with this new tecnology.  I am a board member of an Inventors club and have witnessed some major breakthrough in technology from some people that look like they should be sitting on a porch playing a banjo.  This country has been founded on people with different ideas I believe this mentality will help this group.  Go ahead with what you feel will help this group and the distilling community.
              This will be my last reply to this thread let this dog die and get it together.  I want to hear about different mash recipes and how to make better stills and design.
            White Bear
             
             

            From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:31 AM
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Forum abuse
             
            Wow! Let a guy stay away from the forum for a while and the natives get frisky!

            A couple of important things - many of us have had a shot at Robert's ethanol-water separation ideas, and I think there's no gain in continuing the negative comments on a yet-to-be tried process about which all of us, except Robert, know nothing. For my part, I'm as sceptical as many, but I'm looking forward to hearing the progression of Robert's experimentation, if he chooses to share it with us.

            As for banning, I'm trying to remember if it's ever happened on this list; I think not. It's certainly not common, anyway, although serious trolling could put enough people over the edge to raise a hue and cry.

            It's true that there are a few long-timers on the list who have between them many decades of distilling, but we're generally tolerant of new ideas, as long as they are not based on proven-wrong principles. Dunno about the rest, but I'm not terribly happy with a lot of name-calling, although I'll certainly jump in to correct incorrect physics, chemistry, or basic distilling untruths.

            So I'm uncharacteristically invoking the forum's "play nice rule". It can't hurt, and it'll keep this a pleasant place to frequent, and Robert? ...keep us posted on what you're doing and what results you get.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, TODP <danimae@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Don't let 'em get to ya Robert.. they got to me early also.. I just
            > posted a reply to one of your last notes!! Slim crowd here!! I am
            > SURE I will be banned from now on just because I ruffled some feathers!!
            > As well as YOU now!!! Ya dare NOT say ANYTHING against the regulars!!
            >
            > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:02 PM, RLB wrote:
            >
            ----snip----
          • girlguidebiscuit
            I would be interested to hear why a post to a new distillers group is the best way to market a revolutionary new alcohol separation process. Sound to me more
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 7, 2013
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              "I would be interested to hear why a post to a new distillers group is the best way to market a revolutionary new alcohol separation process. Sound to me more like a separate me from my money process. ;)"

              This is the point where this thread went haywire. Robert, I think you may have misinterpreted this comment. I didn't read it as meaning you would scam people of their money.

              What I read was that it would not be wise to share a new idea with a bunch of strangers if you wanted to make money from it...because you would lose control and ownership of your new idea - thus YOU would be the one separated from your money.

              Correct me if I'm wrong.
              Paul
            • Fredrick Lee
              In the world of intellectual property, it s widely presumed the best money making ideas need to be kept secret. That presumption is incorrect. Take a world
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 7, 2013
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                In the world of intellectual property, it's  widely presumed the best money making ideas need to be kept secret. That presumption is incorrect. Take a world famous musical artist for example, they make a product that can be copied by anyone, quite easily, just by recording it. The protection they receive from copyright law is insignificant to the protection they receive through their product/brand association.  

                Another way to look at it is if I started selling "The Compleet Distiller" (a new revised compendium of distillation techniques and apparatus), you guys would certainly know that it would be a bogus knock-off and refuse to buy it, probably even take some action against me selling it. Since you would be most of my market for such a scandalous publication, I would inherently be unable to capitalize from it. 

                The moral of the story is, if you have access to your market, tell them what you're doing, it will protect your property much more than copyrights.  

                There are four levels of intellectual property:

                1. Patents protect inventions, designs, and business methods.  They do not provide the right for you, but rather prevent others from making it in the same manner.
                2. Trademarks provide source identification with the potential to create consumer goodwill.  It is the responsibility of the trademark owner to protect the trademark.  If it is not protected, you lose the trademark.
                3. Copyrights protect tangible expression of original ideas.  Said another way, you protect the literal copy of the idea, but not the idea itself.
                4. Trade Secrets are secret business information kept (hopefully) within a company.  It is the protection of the secret sauce, or the secret formula.
                Regardless of what category the ideas fall into, they all require defensibility, and that requires establishing who owns what, when. 






                On Mar 7, 2013, at 7:45 AM, self.adhesive@... wrote:

                 

                "I would be interested to hear why a post to a new distillers group is the best way to market a revolutionary new alcohol separation process. Sound to me more like a separate me from my money process. ;)"

                This is the point where this thread went haywire. Robert, I think you may have misinterpreted this comment. I didn't read it as meaning you would scam people of their money.

                What I read was that it would not be wise to share a new idea with a bunch of strangers if you wanted to make money from it...because you would lose control and ownership of your new idea - thus YOU would be the one separated from your money.

                Correct me if I'm wrong.
                Paul

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