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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

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  • White Bear
    Jim-   It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Jim-
        It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
      White Bear
       
       

      From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
       doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

      James D. Graves 251-533-8569
      From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      Bob-
      Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
      White Bear
       
       
       

      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


      From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      Love to get a 5 gallon still...

      Maybe I will....

      Lol

      Claude

      Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

      ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
       
      I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

      On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
       

      My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

      Robert

      From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
       
      Possibly higher due to more amps used
      Sent from my iPhone
      On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
       
      The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
      On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
       
      I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert

    • RLB
      Don t forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol. Robert ________________________________ From: White Bear To:
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Don't forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol.

        Robert


        From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

         
        Jim-
          It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
        White Bear
         
         

        From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
         
        WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
         doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

        James D. Graves 251-533-8569


      • Jim Graves
        Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I ll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!   James D. Graves
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
           
          James D. Graves
          Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
          251-533-8569

          From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:27 AM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

           
          Jim-
            It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
          White Bear
           
           

          From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
           doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

          James D. Graves 251-533-8569
          From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Bob-
          Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
          White Bear
           
           
           

          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


          From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Love to get a 5 gallon still...

          Maybe I will....

          Lol

          Claude

          Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

          ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
           
          I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

          On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
           

          My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

          Robert

          From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Possibly higher due to more amps used
          Sent from my iPhone
          On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
           
          The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
          On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
           
          I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert



        • Fredrick Lee
          Hehe.
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hehe. 

            On Mar 3, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:

             

            Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
             
            James D. Graves
            Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
            251-533-8569

            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

             
            Jim-
              It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
            White Bear
             
             

            From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
             doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

            James D. Graves 251-533-8569
            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Bob-
            Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
            White Bear
             
             
             

            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


            From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Love to get a 5 gallon still...

            Maybe I will....

            Lol

            Claude

            Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

            ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
             
            I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

            On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
             

            My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

            Robert

            From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Possibly higher due to more amps used
            Sent from my iPhone
            On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
             
            The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
            On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
             
            I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert



          • Jim Graves
            RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   James D. Graves Ravenwood Solutions, llc. 251-533-8569 ________________________________ From: RLB To:
            Message 5 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
               
              James D. Graves
              Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
              251-533-8569

              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:39 AM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

               
              Don't forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol.

              Robert


              From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

               
              Jim-
                It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
              White Bear
               
               

              From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
               
              WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
               doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

              James D. Graves 251-533-8569




            • Mel
              May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the less they know about me the better! might work to your
              Message 6 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the "less they know about me the better!" might work to your advantage.

                Mel
                On 03/03/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Graves wrote:
                Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                 
                Ja

              • Richard Costa
                Jim, White Bear   You ll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I ve subscribed for years and
                Message 7 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jim, White Bear
                   
                  You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                   
                  I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                  From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  Jim-
                    It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                  White Bear
                   
                   

                  From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                   doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                  James D. Graves 251-533-8569
                  From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  Bob-
                  Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
                  White Bear
                   
                   
                   

                  From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


                  From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  Love to get a 5 gallon still...

                  Maybe I will....

                  Lol

                  Claude

                  Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

                  ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
                   
                  I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

                  On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
                   

                  My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
                  From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

                  Robert

                  From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  Possibly higher due to more amps used
                  Sent from my iPhone
                  On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                   
                  The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
                  On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                   
                  I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert

                • RLB
                  You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to
                  Message 8 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                    Robert


                    From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                     
                    Jim, White Bear
                     
                    You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                     
                    I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                    From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    Jim-
                      It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                    White Bear
                     
                     

                    From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                     doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                    James D. Graves 251-533-8569


                  • White Bear
                    A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food
                    Message 9 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food grade material such as SS, glass or copper.  With little design changes you can collect the distillate in a small cup plumbed out to a collection vessel.  As the distillate vaporises at a lower tempreture than water it should work relativly well.
                      White Bear
                       
                       
                       

                      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09 AM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                      Robert

                      From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Jim, White Bear
                       
                      You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                       
                      I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                      From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Jim-
                        It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                      White Bear
                       
                       

                      From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                       doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                      James D. Graves 251-533-8569

                    • RLB
                      Wow, I was thinking for your use for bio-fuel but it would be perfect for distilling wash or wort.  I will have to experiment with that one too. Robert
                      Message 10 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Wow, I was thinking for your use for bio-fuel but it would be perfect for distilling wash or wort.  I will have to experiment with that one too.

                        Robert


                        From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 7:06 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                         
                        A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food grade material such as SS, glass or copper.  With little design changes you can collect the distillate in a small cup plumbed out to a collection vessel.  As the distillate vaporises at a lower tempreture than water it should work relativly well.
                        White Bear
                         
                         
                         

                        From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                         
                        You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                        Robert

                        From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                         
                        Jim, White Bear
                         
                        You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                         
                        I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                        From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                         
                        Jim-
                          It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                        White Bear
                         
                         

                        From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                         
                        WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                         doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                        James D. Graves 251-533-8569



                      • Richard Costa
                        I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and
                        Message 11 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                           
                          You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                          Robert


                          From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                           
                          Jim, White Bear
                           
                          You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                           
                          I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                          From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                           
                          Jim-
                            It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                          White Bear
                           
                           

                          From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                           
                          WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                           doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                          James D. Graves 251-533-8569




                        • Richard Costa
                          I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well
                          Message 12 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?


                            From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 9:09 AM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                             
                            I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                             
                            You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                            Robert


                            From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                             
                            Jim, White Bear
                             
                            You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                             
                            I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Jim-
                              It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                            White Bear
                             
                             

                            From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                             doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                            James D. Graves 251-533-8569






                          • Jim Graves
                            I know I keep forgetting to do that, thanks ________________________________ From: Mel To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday,
                            Message 13 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I know I keep forgetting to do that, thanks



                              From: Mel <wasagamel@...>
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 4:59 PM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                               
                              May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the "less they know about me the better!" might work to your advantage.

                              Mel
                              On 03/03/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Graves wrote:
                              Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                               
                              Ja



                            • RLB
                              It will be a fun project to play with during the summer.  Distilling without a still. Robert ________________________________ From: Richard Costa
                              Message 14 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                It will be a fun project to play with during the summer.  Distilling without a still.

                                Robert


                                From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 11:22 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                 
                                I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?


                                From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 9:09 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                 
                                I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                 
                                You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                Robert




                              • jsducote
                                Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional
                                Message 15 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                  -j

                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa <richaaard@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                  >
                                  > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....
                                • Richard Costa
                                  I had that same thought but I have some doubts whether using it as a closed loop system would be more work, and how I d harness it into a pot still. I d also
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                    I had that same thought but I have some doubts whether using it as a closed loop system would be more work, and how I'd harness it into a pot still. I'd also be more confined on volume. It's really not a big deal to disconnect the two lines (intake/outtake), and flush it out. It's about 10 feet off the ground so I just need to pump the wort up into it in the evening when it's cool. I'd attach the business end/condenser arm on one side and plug the other side. The temperature should be near ideal, but if it isn't a tarp covering part could slow it down. Again, flushing it out when I'm done is just a matter of attaching a garden hose. I think it will work well and I could probably get an easy 8-10 gallons.

                                    I use my solar heater with ethyl glycol as a closed loop system for heating household hot water, not really what it's made for since it's considered a non-pressurized system. Draining it, flushing it, adding fluid etc, really isn't a big deal since I have faucets near my hot water tank. Adding hoses and a pump makes it quick work. I'll just store the ethyl glycol fluid in a barrel and reuse it when I'm done.


                                    From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                     
                                    Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                    -j

                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                    >
                                    > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                  • Richard Costa
                                    My only concern would be pressure build up, since a non-pressurized system can only handle a peak of about 9-11 psi before the gaskets around the tubes start
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                      My only concern would be pressure build up, since a non-pressurized system can only handle a peak of about 9-11 psi before the gaskets around the tubes start leaking. I need to keep the pressure down and the steam moving. Having a tarp or cover ready should control that. 




                                      From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                       
                                      Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                      -j

                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                      >
                                      > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                    • RLB
                                      One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                        One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                        I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                        Robert


                                        From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                         
                                        Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                        -j

                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                        >
                                        > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                      • Richard Costa
                                        I m new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                          Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?


                                          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:02 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                           
                                          One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                          I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                          Robert


                                          From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                           
                                          Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                          -j

                                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                          >
                                          > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....





                                        • Bill Rogers
                                          What, exactly, have you invented?
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            What, exactly, have you invented?  


                                            On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                            I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                            Robert

                                          • RLB
                                            There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                              Robert


                                              From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                               
                                              I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                              Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?


                                              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:02 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                               
                                              One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                              I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                              Robert


                                              From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                               
                                              Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                              -j

                                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                              >
                                              > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....







                                            • RLB
                                              All it is at this time is an idea.  If it works, it s a process that will change the way we distill our wash.  I am really tired of keeping an eye on my
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                All it is at this time is an idea.  If it works, it's a process that will change the way we distill our wash.  I am really tired of keeping an eye on my still for 4 to 5 hrs.

                                                Robert



                                                From: Bill Rogers <bill.rogers@...>
                                                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:22 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                 
                                                What, exactly, have you invented?  


                                                On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                                 
                                                One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                Robert



                                              • Richard Costa
                                                You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it s applications in another
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it's applications in another direction. Don't worry, people thought Edison was crazy too. 






                                                  From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:29 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                   
                                                  There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                                  Robert


                                                  From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                   
                                                  I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                  Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?








                                                • Fredrick Lee
                                                  Guy Kawasaki, blah blah blah, black swan. Speak your story, Lady Gaga, or else someone is going to rip it off before you ve established it s yours. All of this
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Guy Kawasaki, blah blah blah, black swan. Speak your story, Lady Gaga, or else someone is going to rip it off before you've established it's yours.  

                                                    All of this is arbitrary whether centrifugal, ionic azeotropical depression, static head pressure, ultra fine membranes, etc, all this crap is completely unoriginal, and the more original something is, the less people want to hear about it.  
                                                    The tule of thumb is to spill the beans, or it's just unproven, invalid science, or at least susceptible to thievery. 

                                                    On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Richard Costa <richaaard@...> wrote:

                                                     

                                                    You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it's applications in another direction. Don't worry, people thought Edison was crazy too. 






                                                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:29 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                     
                                                    There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                                    Robert


                                                    From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                     
                                                    I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                    Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?








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