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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

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  • RLB
    Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation,
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 1, 2013
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      Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better.

      Robert



      From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

       
      Love to get a 5 gallon still...

      Maybe I will....

      Lol

      Claude

      Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

      ----- Reply message -----
      From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
      Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM


       
      I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :)

      Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.


      On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:

       

      My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine.....

      Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon.......

      If would take forever.....

      Claude

      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

       
      My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

      Robert


      From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

       
      Possibly higher due to more amps used

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:

       
      The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 

      On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:

       
      I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob!

      Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup? 

      Robert





    • White Bear
      Bob- Contact me off group (sha_man_1@yahoo.com) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 2, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Bob-
        Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
        White Bear
         
         
         

        From: RLB <last2blast@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
         
        Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


        From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
         
        Love to get a 5 gallon still...

        Maybe I will....

        Lol

        Claude

        Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

        ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
         
        I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

        On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
         

        My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
        From: RLB <last2blast@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
         
        My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

        Robert

        From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
         
        Possibly higher due to more amps used
        Sent from my iPhone
        On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
         
        The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
        On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
         
        I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert

      • RLB
        I was referring to a obtaining a building and equipment as costing $20,000. Robert ________________________________ From: White Bear To:
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 2, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I was referring to a obtaining a building and equipment as costing $20,000.

          Robert


          From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 2:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

           
          Bob-
          Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
          White Bear
           
           
           

          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


          From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
           
          Love to get a 5 gallon still...

          Maybe I will....

          Lol

          Claude


        • Jim Graves
          WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering  doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 2, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
             doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

            James D. Graves

            251-533-8569

            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

             
            Bob-
            Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
            White Bear
             
             
             

            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


            From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Love to get a 5 gallon still...

            Maybe I will....

            Lol

            Claude

            Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

            ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
             
            I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

            On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
             

            My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

            Robert

            From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
             
            Possibly higher due to more amps used
            Sent from my iPhone
            On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
             
            The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
            On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
             
            I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert



          • RLB
            One would think that bio-diesel would be a good stepping stone into legal spirits. Robert ________________________________ From: Jim Graves
            Message 5 of 30 , Mar 2, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              One would think that bio-diesel would be a good stepping stone into legal spirits.

              Robert


              From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 4:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

               
              WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
               doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

              James D. Graves

              251-533-8569

              From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

               
              Bob-
              Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
              White Bear
               
               
               

              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
               
              Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


              From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
               
              Love to get a 5 gallon still...

              Maybe I will....

              Lol

              Claude

              Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

              ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
               
              I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

              On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
               

              My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
               
              My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

              Robert

              From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
               
              Possibly higher due to more amps used
              Sent from my iPhone
              On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
               
              The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
              On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
               
              I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert





            • White Bear
              Jim-   It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own
              Message 6 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Jim-
                  It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                White Bear
                 
                 

                From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                 doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                James D. Graves 251-533-8569
                From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                Bob-
                Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
                White Bear
                 
                 
                 

                From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


                From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                Love to get a 5 gallon still...

                Maybe I will....

                Lol

                Claude

                Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

                ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
                 
                I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

                On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
                 

                My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
                From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

                Robert

                From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                 
                Possibly higher due to more amps used
                Sent from my iPhone
                On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                 
                The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
                On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                 
                I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert

              • RLB
                Don t forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol. Robert ________________________________ From: White Bear To:
                Message 7 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Don't forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol.

                  Robert


                  From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                   
                  Jim-
                    It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                  White Bear
                   
                   

                  From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                   
                  WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                   doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                  James D. Graves 251-533-8569


                • Jim Graves
                  Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I ll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!   James D. Graves
                  Message 8 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                     
                    James D. Graves
                    Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
                    251-533-8569

                    From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:27 AM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                     
                    Jim-
                      It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                    White Bear
                     
                     

                    From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                     doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                    James D. Graves 251-533-8569
                    From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    Bob-
                    Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
                    White Bear
                     
                     
                     

                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


                    From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    Love to get a 5 gallon still...

                    Maybe I will....

                    Lol

                    Claude

                    Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

                    ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
                     
                    I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

                    On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
                     

                    My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

                    Robert

                    From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                     
                    Possibly higher due to more amps used
                    Sent from my iPhone
                    On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                     
                    The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
                    On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                     
                    I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert



                  • Fredrick Lee
                    Hehe.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hehe. 

                      On Mar 3, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Jim Graves <jimbull34@...> wrote:

                       

                      Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                       
                      James D. Graves
                      Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
                      251-533-8569

                      From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:27 AM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                       
                      Jim-
                        It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                      White Bear
                       
                       

                      From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                       doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                      James D. Graves 251-533-8569
                      From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Bob-
                      Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
                      White Bear
                       
                       
                       

                      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


                      From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Love to get a 5 gallon still...

                      Maybe I will....

                      Lol

                      Claude

                      Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

                      ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
                       
                      I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

                      On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
                       

                      My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
                      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

                      Robert

                      From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                       
                      Possibly higher due to more amps used
                      Sent from my iPhone
                      On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                       
                      The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
                      On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                       
                      I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert



                    • Jim Graves
                      RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   James D. Graves Ravenwood Solutions, llc. 251-533-8569 ________________________________ From: RLB To:
                      Message 10 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                         
                        James D. Graves
                        Ravenwood Solutions, llc.
                        251-533-8569

                        From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:39 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                         
                        Don't forget get to store it in oak barrels too.  Lol.

                        Robert


                        From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                         
                        Jim-
                          It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                        White Bear
                         
                         

                        From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                         
                        WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                         doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                        James D. Graves 251-533-8569




                      • Mel
                        May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the less they know about me the better! might work to your
                        Message 11 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the "less they know about me the better!" might work to your advantage.

                          Mel
                          On 03/03/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Graves wrote:
                          Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                           
                          Ja

                        • Richard Costa
                          Jim, White Bear   You ll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I ve subscribed for years and
                          Message 12 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Jim, White Bear
                             
                            You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                             
                            I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Jim-
                              It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                            White Bear
                             
                             

                            From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                             doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                            James D. Graves 251-533-8569
                            From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:53 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Bob-
                            Contact me off group (sha_man_1@...) - I got my Alternative Fuel Permit last year and was wondering why it would cost you so much money.  This still doesn't have to be in copper or SS, as this will surely bring the TTB eyes looking for one thing - for another, what kind of bio-fuel are you looking at that needs a reflux still besides ethanol??
                            White Bear
                             
                             
                             

                            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:41 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Here in the US, it is illegal to distill spirits without proper permits, so it will cost me at least $20,000 just to experiment.  Without experimentation, it's very difficult to know if you like and can distill spirits.  For me, 50 gal still would be a perfect testing vessel, but that would be like placing a target on my back with TTB, AFT, state, sheriff, and local police.  I will stick with my 2.5 gal still until I have all of my formulas ready for my next spirit step.  Can't wait for summer to get here, so I can experiment with turning weeds into bio-fuel.  Bio-fuel will require a reflux or fractional still, so this summer I will gain experience in them too.  Bigger is better. Robert


                            From: "cnapier@..." <cnapier@...>
                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 9:06 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Love to get a 5 gallon still...

                            Maybe I will....

                            Lol

                            Claude

                            Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

                            ----- Reply message ----- From: "Patrick Luke" <peluke@...> To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:20 PM
                             
                            I'm using a 1300w hot plate with a 5g pot. heats up in about an hour. makes for a nice easy afternoon :) Please excuse the brevity; this was sent from my mobile device.

                            On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:34 AM, cnapier@... wrote:
                             

                            My plate handles my 2 gallon just fine..... Figure if I go up...........3 or 4 gallon....... If would take forever..... Claude
                            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 1:38:29 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            My 220 V, 30 A range has coils, but my hotplate burner is solid.  That should allow for better heat transfer than my range, and it might reduce distillation time, which should save money in the long run.

                            Robert

                            From: Mike <mikeraphael2000@...>
                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:01 PM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                             
                            Possibly higher due to more amps used
                            Sent from my iPhone
                            On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                             
                            The amount of energy to run the still will not change. Your electric bill will probably remain the same. 
                            On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:18 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                             
                            I have a hot plate that cycles, but it was only used to melt solder.  Guess it's time to test it with my 2.5 gal pot still.  Hot plate is 110 V, whereas my kitchen range is 220v.  I should be able to cut my electric bill by using a hot plate if it works well.  Thanks Bob! Has anyone thought of using a blower with ethanol or methanol to heat a still such as in oil furnace like setup?  Robert

                          • RLB
                            You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Mar 3, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                              Robert


                              From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                               
                              Jim, White Bear
                               
                              You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                               
                              I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                              From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                               
                              Jim-
                                It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                              White Bear
                               
                               

                              From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                               
                              WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                               doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                              James D. Graves 251-533-8569


                            • White Bear
                              A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food
                              Message 14 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food grade material such as SS, glass or copper.  With little design changes you can collect the distillate in a small cup plumbed out to a collection vessel.  As the distillate vaporises at a lower tempreture than water it should work relativly well.
                                White Bear
                                 
                                 
                                 

                                From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                 
                                You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                Robert

                                From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                 
                                Jim, White Bear
                                 
                                You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                                 
                                I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                                From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                 
                                Jim-
                                  It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                                White Bear
                                 
                                 

                                From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                                To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                 
                                WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                                 doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                                James D. Graves 251-533-8569

                              • RLB
                                Wow, I was thinking for your use for bio-fuel but it would be perfect for distilling wash or wort.  I will have to experiment with that one too. Robert
                                Message 15 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Wow, I was thinking for your use for bio-fuel but it would be perfect for distilling wash or wort.  I will have to experiment with that one too.

                                  Robert


                                  From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 7:06 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                   
                                  A solar still, much like one used in distilling water from contaminated fluids can be utilized in solar distillage.  Just be sure that all parts are food grade material such as SS, glass or copper.  With little design changes you can collect the distillate in a small cup plumbed out to a collection vessel.  As the distillate vaporises at a lower tempreture than water it should work relativly well.
                                  White Bear
                                   
                                   
                                   

                                  From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                   
                                  You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                  Robert

                                  From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                   
                                  Jim, White Bear
                                   
                                  You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                                   
                                  I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                                  From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                   
                                  Jim-
                                    It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                                  White Bear
                                   
                                   

                                  From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                                  To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                   
                                  WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                                   doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                                  James D. Graves 251-533-8569



                                • Richard Costa
                                  I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                     
                                    You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                    Robert


                                    From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                     
                                    Jim, White Bear
                                     
                                    You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                                     
                                    I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                                    From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                     
                                    Jim-
                                      It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                                    White Bear
                                     
                                     

                                    From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                     
                                    WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                                     doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                                    James D. Graves 251-533-8569




                                  • Richard Costa
                                    I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?


                                      From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 9:09 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                       
                                      I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                      From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                       
                                      You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                      Robert


                                      From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:22 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                       
                                      Jim, White Bear
                                       
                                      You'll might want to check out HomePower.com or Home Power magazine. They cover a lot of bio diesel stuff. I've subscribed for years and really like it, ...not a greenie.
                                       
                                      I've been into solar hot water for a few years now and the wheels are spinning in my head how I can incorporate it into distiling......baby steps. I know I can distill with solar vacuum tubes, just a matter of trying to figure out a practical method. Has anyone tried this?

                                      From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
                                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:27 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                       
                                      Jim-
                                        It is my understanding through much research, there is no paper work for making Bio-diesel.  The small amount that you will be making is for your own use, not for sale.  The paper work comes in if you want to use it to commute anywhere on public roads.  Then you need to file for road tax usage.  (I can't think of the exact phrasing for this tax at the moment) maybe someone out there knows what I am refering to).  Since this is not to be consumed the TTB is not really interested in you making bio-diesel for use on your own land or property.  To answer your cost question, there is none.  The four page permit form for ethanol is all I filed for.  It is good for two years but you better be taking really good notes and you need to have some product by the end of the two year period.
                                      White Bear
                                       
                                       

                                      From: Jim Graves <jimbull34@...>
                                      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:13 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts
                                       
                                      WB, other then a ton of paper work, what did it cost for the AFP?  I was considering
                                       doing it as I make bio diesel, but I really think because I only make it for myself, I don't think I want the gov to know exactly what I do...any thoughts?

                                      James D. Graves 251-533-8569






                                    • Jim Graves
                                      I know I keep forgetting to do that, thanks ________________________________ From: Mel To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday,
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I know I keep forgetting to do that, thanks



                                        From: Mel <wasagamel@...>
                                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 4:59 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                         
                                        May be you should delete the address, phone number, and name at the bottom of your posts so the "less they know about me the better!" might work to your advantage.

                                        Mel
                                        On 03/03/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Graves wrote:
                                        Thanks, I appreciate the info, I think I'll just keep doing it the way I am now, under the table.  The less they know about me the better!
                                         
                                        Ja



                                      • RLB
                                        It will be a fun project to play with during the summer.  Distilling without a still. Robert ________________________________ From: Richard Costa
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Mar 4, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          It will be a fun project to play with during the summer.  Distilling without a still.

                                          Robert


                                          From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 11:22 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                           
                                          I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?


                                          From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 9:09 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                           
                                          I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                          From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                          To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:09 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                           
                                          You might want to look into a solar oven to use on hot sunny days.  212 F is not too bad!  Running the a pipe out the side to a shaded area and exposure to the wind should be enough for a condenser to cool distillate.

                                          Robert




                                        • jsducote
                                          Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                            Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                            -j

                                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa <richaaard@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                            >
                                            > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....
                                          • Richard Costa
                                            I had that same thought but I have some doubts whether using it as a closed loop system would be more work, and how I d harness it into a pot still. I d also
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                              I had that same thought but I have some doubts whether using it as a closed loop system would be more work, and how I'd harness it into a pot still. I'd also be more confined on volume. It's really not a big deal to disconnect the two lines (intake/outtake), and flush it out. It's about 10 feet off the ground so I just need to pump the wort up into it in the evening when it's cool. I'd attach the business end/condenser arm on one side and plug the other side. The temperature should be near ideal, but if it isn't a tarp covering part could slow it down. Again, flushing it out when I'm done is just a matter of attaching a garden hose. I think it will work well and I could probably get an easy 8-10 gallons.

                                              I use my solar heater with ethyl glycol as a closed loop system for heating household hot water, not really what it's made for since it's considered a non-pressurized system. Draining it, flushing it, adding fluid etc, really isn't a big deal since I have faucets near my hot water tank. Adding hoses and a pump makes it quick work. I'll just store the ethyl glycol fluid in a barrel and reuse it when I'm done.


                                              From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                               
                                              Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                              -j

                                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                              >
                                              > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                            • Richard Costa
                                              My only concern would be pressure build up, since a non-pressurized system can only handle a peak of about 9-11 psi before the gaskets around the tubes start
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                                My only concern would be pressure build up, since a non-pressurized system can only handle a peak of about 9-11 psi before the gaskets around the tubes start leaking. I need to keep the pressure down and the steam moving. Having a tarp or cover ready should control that. 




                                                From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                 
                                                Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                                -j

                                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                                >
                                                > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                              • RLB
                                                One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                  I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                  Robert


                                                  From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                   
                                                  Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                                  -j

                                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                                  >
                                                  > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....



                                                • Richard Costa
                                                  I m new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                    Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?


                                                    From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                    To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:02 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                     
                                                    One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                    I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                    Robert


                                                    From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                     
                                                    Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                                    -j

                                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                                    >
                                                    > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....





                                                  • Bill Rogers
                                                    What, exactly, have you invented?
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Mar 5, 2013
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      What, exactly, have you invented?  


                                                      On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                                       

                                                      One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                      I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                      Robert

                                                    • RLB
                                                      There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                                        Robert


                                                        From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                         
                                                        I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                        Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?


                                                        From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:02 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                         
                                                        One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                        I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                        Robert


                                                        From: jsducote <jsducote@...>
                                                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:30 AM
                                                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                         
                                                        Rather than feeding wort into your solar heater, I think you should keep the solar heater a closed-loop system and merely use it to heat your traditional still. If you put anything other than water (or water plus something like ethylene glycol) in it then you eventually have to drain it and clean it out. I bet your still is much easier to disassemble and clean. Lots of professional distilleries use super-heated steam to power their stills and I think you'll have better control over the temperature too.
                                                        -j

                                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Costa wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I think I got this. All I need is to feed the wort in one end, shut it off, and then steam will come out the opposite end, harness it, and then use cold well water to condense it. It would also be quite safe with no flame and the pressure build up in this type of solar peaks at 9-11 psi. It seems almost too simple. I bet I could get 12+ gallons at a time.....jeez. What am I misssing?
                                                        >
                                                        > I have a vacuum tube array with 30 tubes, spa type, that probably hold about 3 liters each of water/fluid. The water turns to steam quickly on a sunny day, and even on an overcast day they get pretty warm. I know there is a way that this will work with distilling alcohol at a fairly heavy volume, now it's just a matter of how to arrange and collect the steam, and feed the mash liquid. A solar oven would also work but if I'm looking for volume....







                                                      • RLB
                                                        All it is at this time is an idea.  If it works, it s a process that will change the way we distill our wash.  I am really tired of keeping an eye on my
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                                          All it is at this time is an idea.  If it works, it's a process that will change the way we distill our wash.  I am really tired of keeping an eye on my still for 4 to 5 hrs.

                                                          Robert



                                                          From: Bill Rogers <bill.rogers@...>
                                                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:22 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                           
                                                          What, exactly, have you invented?  


                                                          On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                                           
                                                          One problem with solar distilling is time.  It takes me 4 hrs on an electric range to distill 2 gals of sugar wash, so can I achieve the necessary heat for 4 hrs to distill 2 gals in a day?  In northern states it will be more difficult, but it will be fun to trying.

                                                          I am working on a different idea that will instantly remove alcohol from water, but it will require experimentation and testing before I can share my idea.  As I told WB, I am an inventor.

                                                          Robert



                                                        • Richard Costa
                                                          You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it s applications in another
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                                            You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it's applications in another direction. Don't worry, people thought Edison was crazy too. 






                                                            From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:29 PM
                                                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                             
                                                            There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                                            Robert


                                                            From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                                            To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                             
                                                            I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                            Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?








                                                          • Fredrick Lee
                                                            Guy Kawasaki, blah blah blah, black swan. Speak your story, Lady Gaga, or else someone is going to rip it off before you ve established it s yours. All of this
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                                              Guy Kawasaki, blah blah blah, black swan. Speak your story, Lady Gaga, or else someone is going to rip it off before you've established it's yours.  

                                                              All of this is arbitrary whether centrifugal, ionic azeotropical depression, static head pressure, ultra fine membranes, etc, all this crap is completely unoriginal, and the more original something is, the less people want to hear about it.  
                                                              The tule of thumb is to spill the beans, or it's just unproven, invalid science, or at least susceptible to thievery. 

                                                              On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Richard Costa <richaaard@...> wrote:

                                                               

                                                              You at least have me curious about the process. Many times ideas, although not practical in one direction, provoke thought of it's applications in another direction. Don't worry, people thought Edison was crazy too. 






                                                              From: RLB <last2blast@...>
                                                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:29 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                               
                                                              There are several types of alcohol in wash.  We do not just remove ethanol from wash, but we remove almost all of the various forms found in our wash.  Most of the time we take it out, so we can put it back in which is ironic in a way.

                                                              Robert


                                                              From: Richard Costa <richaaard@...>
                                                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:32 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Noobie thoughts

                                                               
                                                              I'm new to distilling so time will tell. Is it true that the final product is better with a slower cook? It would seem on a sunny day that the sun will be fairly constant so the adjustments that I need to make will be minimal. I don't care if it takes 12 hours, it's outside, and I actually have an outdoor shower underneath with drain if there's a mess. The worse that I can see happening is pressure build up with gaskets around some of the tubes leaking, not a big deal for me, just throw a tarp over the tubes to slow it down and bring the pressure down. I wouldn't need to babysit it as much as you would if it were on a stove. I'm hoping I can mostly set it and forget it.

                                                              Removing alcohol from water? I've heard of doing the opposite but what would the scenario be where alcohol got into water and why remove it?








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