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Re: distilling

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  • tgfoitwoods
    Sorry, Brendan, but it doesn t work that way. I ll admit I was guessing on the amount the volume changed, but here s proof that it does change, and
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 19, 2013
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      Sorry, Brendan, but it doesn't work that way. I'll admit I was guessing on the amount the volume changed, but here's proof that it does change, and significantly.

      From the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, a 30 Brix sucrose solution has a density of 1.129 kg/L, so that a liter of that solution has a mass of 1129 grams. By Wikipedia's definition, "One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by weight (% w/w)."  Therefore the mass of sucrose in that liter is (30/100)1129, or 338.7 grams of sucrose.

      Since the mass of the water is everything that isn't the mass of the sucrose, in that solution, the water has a mass of 1129-338.7=790.3 grams of water. By definition, that water has a volume (assuming 4 C) of 790.3 ml, but the total volume of our original liter is 1,000 ml. 790.3 ml of water plus 338.7 grams of sucrose give us a whole liter of solution, way more than just the water.

      Yes, it would have been way simpler to solve a problem in grams and liters, but the problem was stated in cups, gallons, and liters, so I had to convert.

      I'll stick by my numbers that the problem as originally stated specified a solution almost certainly too concentrated to ferment.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

      <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brendan Keith <bkeith@...> wrote:<br>><br>> The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the<br>> volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption).<br>> <br>> A simpler way to plan a simple sugar wash is, first, do it in metric, so if<br>> you wanted a wash of SG 1.10 and started with 3L of water (which weighs 3kg<br>> by definition), you would just need to add 0.3kg (x 2.2 = 0.66 lbs) of<br>> sugar. Therefore, you now have 3.3kg of 'stuff' in a 3L volume.<br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> <br>> Brendan Keith<br>> <br>> bkeith@...<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]<br>> On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods<br>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM<br>> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com<br>> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Alex,<br>> <br>> Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table<br>> sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or<br>> 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208<br>> ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4<br>> liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.<br>> <br>> Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume<br>> of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of<br>> sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the<br>> density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation<br>> will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density<br>> are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56<br>> lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16<br>> liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.<br>> <br>> When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 = 8.69kg total<br>> solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78<br>> liters per gallon)=7.56 liters<br>> <br>> The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L,<br>> which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter<br>> end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be<br>> perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the<br>> yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of that's figuring my 2<br>> gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you<br>> either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the<br>> density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic<br>> pressure right at the start.<br>> <br>> To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the<br>> amount of sugar.<br>> <br>> I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really<br>> important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to<br>> high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that<br>> the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your<br>> liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing.<br>> I know because I did it once.<br>> <br>> Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to<br>> design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table<br>> from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.<br>> http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf<br>> <br>> Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller<br>> <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/> Making<br>> Fine Spirits<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva regalsilva@<br>> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula 7 cups<br>> white sugar, 26 cups water, 24 grams baker's instant dry yeast = to 4<br>> lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it<br>> safe to use heat resistant plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle<br>> to copper cooling coil.<br>> My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted<br>> with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.<br>> <br>> Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose - more flexible<br>> arrangement than copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world<br>> country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard<br>> to come by. So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br><br>><br>
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