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distilling

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  • Regal Silva
    (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker s instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash (B) During
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 18, 2013
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      (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

      (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
            My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
           Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

      (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

      Alex
    • RLB
      7 cups of sugar to a gal of water 0.0 , wow! I thought 5 cups was a lot (2.4 cups of sugar equals a pound). You might have unused sugar in your wash. I used 5
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 18, 2013
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        7 cups of sugar to a gal of water "0.0", wow! I thought 5 cups was a lot (2.4 cups of sugar equals a pound). You might have unused sugar in your wash.

        I used 5 grams of of yeast in 5 gals wash. Yeast was placed in a cup of wash and allowed to grow as it was stirred.  Even 24 g of bakers yeast is to much.  Next time, place place 1 tbsp (7 g) of bakers yeast in a large cup of wash and let yeast grow before pitching.  I made all of the same mistakes that you just described.

        Robert



        From: Regal Silva <regalsilva@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM
        Subject: [new_distillers] distilling

         
        (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

        (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
              My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
             Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

        (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

        Alex


      • tgfoitwoods
        Alex, Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 19, 2013
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          Alex,

          Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

          Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

          When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

          The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

          To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

          I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

          Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
          http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


          <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>
        • Brendan Keith
          The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption). A simpler way to plan
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 19, 2013
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            The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption).
             
            A simpler way to plan a simple sugar wash is, first, do it in metric, so if you wanted a wash of SG 1.10 and started with 3L of water (which weighs 3kg by definition), you would just need to add 0.3kg (x 2.2 = 0.66 lbs) of sugar.  Therefore, you now have 3.3kg of 'stuff' in a 3L volume.
             

            --

            Brendan Keith

            bkeith@...

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
            Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling

             

            Alex,

            Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208 ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4 liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.

            Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56 lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16 liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.

            When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 =  8.69kg total solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78 liters per gallon)=7.56 liters

            The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L, which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of  that's figuring my 2 gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic pressure right at the start.

            To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the amount of sugar.

            I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing. I know because I did it once.

            Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.
            http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


            <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva <regalsilva@...> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.<br>>       My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   <br>>      Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br>

          • RLB
            Alex There are many ways of creating a good sugar wash.  When my experiments started, I used only what was in my kitchen with no fancy equipment. I drink
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 19, 2013
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              Alex

              There are many ways of creating a good sugar wash.  When my experiments started, I used only what was in my kitchen with no fancy equipment.

              I drink Arizona Tea, so it was natural to start with their 128 oz jug, but what surprised me is that those jugs hold 152 oz., which is perfect for 1 gal sugar wash.  Here is how my sugar wash was produced:  Clean jug well with dish soap and a quart of water.  Place cap on top and shake very well.  Empty and rinse well.  Place upside down on a dish rack for at least 2 hrs.  Place 16 cups of hot water (around 140 F) in jug.  Add 4 cups of sugar, 1 tbsp. non-iodine salt., 2 tbsp. lemon juice.  I toss in a multivitamin for some nutrients, but you need 1 tbsp of nitrogen fertilizer.  You could wait until some yeast dies so that it produces its own nitrogen or you could ask a farmer or buy it from garden store.  I purchased 1 lb. of DAP from a brew shop 80 miles from my home.  All of that is placed in the hot water filled jug and shaken with cap on to mix well and to aerate wash.

              Fill a large clean glass half way with your mixed sugar wash, and allow it to cool.  I use 18 oz thin plastic cups because heat is transferred easily, so you can tell when its lukewarm to the touch.  Place 1 tbsp of yeast in that cup, and use your hand to move cup in a circle motion until yeast is mixed with wash.  Place a paper towel or clean cloth over the cup.  Every 10 min swirl the yeast.  You can pitch the yeast once your main wash has cooled to 85 F, or you can swirl your yeast all day and pitch it before you go to sleep.  The more yeast you have in your cup the faster it will convert sugar to alcohol.

              Normally, I pitch my swirled yeast an hour later, and my wash instantly produces CO2.  You don't really need an airlock, but they are very handy.  You can make an airlock, or you could leave the cap snug and releasing pressure every few hours.  I made at least 10 - 1 gal. batches without an airlock.  Great thing about Arizona jugs is you can see its bubbles through the plastic.

              Robert           



              From: Regal Silva <regalsilva@...>
              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM
              Subject: [new_distillers] distilling

               
              (A) My first try at distilling is using formula  7 cups white sugar, 26 cups water, 24  grams  baker's instant dry yeast  = to  4 lit. mash

              (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it safe to use heat resistant  plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle to copper cooling coil.
                    My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.   
                   Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose -  more flexible arrangement than  copper tube.

              (C) In this 3rd world country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard to come by.   So look forward to your good advice.

              Alex


            • tgfoitwoods
              Sorry, Brendan, but it doesn t work that way. I ll admit I was guessing on the amount the volume changed, but here s proof that it does change, and
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 19, 2013
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                Sorry, Brendan, but it doesn't work that way. I'll admit I was guessing on the amount the volume changed, but here's proof that it does change, and significantly.

                From the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, a 30 Brix sucrose solution has a density of 1.129 kg/L, so that a liter of that solution has a mass of 1129 grams. By Wikipedia's definition, "One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by weight (% w/w)."  Therefore the mass of sucrose in that liter is (30/100)1129, or 338.7 grams of sucrose.

                Since the mass of the water is everything that isn't the mass of the sucrose, in that solution, the water has a mass of 1129-338.7=790.3 grams of water. By definition, that water has a volume (assuming 4 C) of 790.3 ml, but the total volume of our original liter is 1,000 ml. 790.3 ml of water plus 338.7 grams of sucrose give us a whole liter of solution, way more than just the water.

                Yes, it would have been way simpler to solve a problem in grams and liters, but the problem was stated in cups, gallons, and liters, so I had to convert.

                I'll stick by my numbers that the problem as originally stated specified a solution almost certainly too concentrated to ferment.

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits



                <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brendan Keith <bkeith@...> wrote:<br>><br>> The problem with your calculation is that when you create a solution, the<br>> volume does not increase (your 1.63 gal. to 2 gal. assumption).<br>> <br>> A simpler way to plan a simple sugar wash is, first, do it in metric, so if<br>> you wanted a wash of SG 1.10 and started with 3L of water (which weighs 3kg<br>> by definition), you would just need to add 0.3kg (x 2.2 = 0.66 lbs) of<br>> sugar. Therefore, you now have 3.3kg of 'stuff' in a 3L volume.<br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> <br>> Brendan Keith<br>> <br>> bkeith@...<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]<br>> On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods<br>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 AM<br>> To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com<br>> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: distilling<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Alex,<br>> <br>> Ok, if 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces (8 ounces of water) and the density of table<br>> sugar (sucrose) is 1.59, then 7 cups of sugar is (8)(1.59)(7)=~89 ounces, or<br>> 5 pounds 9 ounces of sugar (~5.56 lbs). 26 cups of water is (26)(8)=208<br>> ounces or 1 gallon 2.5 quarts (1.63 gals), which is a bit more than the 4<br>> liters of solution you say. So let's look at both amounts of water.<br>> <br>> Guessing that mixing 5.56 lbs sugar with 1.63 gals will give a total volume<br>> of (very) roughly 2 gals, that's (5.56)/(1.63)=3.41 lbs/gal of<br>> sucrose/water. To look at that solution on brewer's terms, let's look at the<br>> density of that solution, which is how brewers predict what a fermentation<br>> will produce andhow it will behave. Since the numbers we all use for density<br>> are grams per milliliter (same as kilograms per liter) (5.56<br>> lbs)/(2.2)=2.53kg of sugar. (1.63 gals water)(3.78 liters per gallon)=6.16<br>> liters of water, which by definition weighs 6.16kg.<br>> <br>> When we add the sugar to the water, we get 2.53 + 6.16 = 8.69kg total<br>> solution, which has a volume I guessed to be 2 gallons or (2 gals)(3.78<br>> liters per gallon)=7.56 liters<br>> <br>> The density will then be (again, very roughly) (8.69kg)(7.56 L)=1.15 kg/L,<br>> which is WAY on the high end of sugar concentration, right out at the bitter<br>> end of what a turbo yeast can do. At that, everything will have to be<br>> perfect for the ferment to work,and with the high-gravity strain on the<br>> yeast, it'll probably taste bad. Andtotal volume of that's figuring my 2<br>> gallons (7.56 liters) instead of the "bit more than 4 liters" that you<br>> either already have are are planning to have. Your 4 liters would put the<br>> density way off the charts, simply exploding the yeast cells by osmotic<br>> pressure right at the start.<br>> <br>> To make your recipe work, either double the volume of the wash ot halve the<br>> amount of sugar.<br>> <br>> I have no way of knowing what your tubing is made of, but what's really<br>> important for distillation is that the tubing is resistant to<br>> high-concentration high-temperature ethanol. What normally happens is that<br>> the hot ethanol leeches out the plasticizer in the tube (and puts it in your<br>> liquor) so you get bad tastes, questionable food safety, and brittle tubing.<br>> I know because I did it once.<br>> <br>> Normally, brewers would use some combination of a table and a hydrometer to<br>> design a sugar wash. Even if you can't locate a hydrometer, here's a table<br>> from my book that will let you predict what's going to happen.<br>> http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/GuideToWashNumbers.pdf<br>> <br>> Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller<br>> <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/> Making<br>> Fine Spirits<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Regal Silva regalsilva@<br>> wrote:<br>><br>> (A) My first try at distilling is using formula 7 cups<br>> white sugar, 26 cups water, 24 grams baker's instant dry yeast = to 4<br>> lit. mash<br>> <br>> (B) During distillation stage of mash (4 lit) is it<br>> safe to use heat resistant plastic hose to connect from distilling kettle<br>> to copper cooling coil.<br>> My old Volkswagon car engine is fitted<br>> with this heat tolerating plastic tube & freely available in the market.<br>> <br>> Also for ease of handling, I prefer plastic hose - more flexible<br>> arrangement than copper tube.<br>> <br>> <br>> (C) In this 3rd world<br>> country access to correct information, equipment, ingredients are very hard<br>> to come by. So look forward to your good advice.<br>> <br>> Alex<br>><br><br>><br>
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