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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Yeast Experiment

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  • Fredrick Lee
    Fresh air means bacteria filled air. You will have to make sure the co2 is all evacuated as well. Also, the headspace calculations for shaking six-gallon
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 12, 2013
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      "Fresh air" means bacteria filled air. You will have to make sure the co2 is all evacuated as well. Also, the headspace calculations for shaking  six-gallon carboys with 5 gallons of wort puts oxygenation levels at 30% the ppm of in-line aeration. I expect 2-liters to be worse. Keeping a stir plate going with a flask and sponge-stopper is so much better and the cost is ridiculously cheap, it's almost not worth it. 

      On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:58 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:

       

      Fredrick:

      That is easy!  Shake the bottle vigorously several times a day.

      1) leave cap loose to allow CO2 to escape.
      2) remove cap to allow fresh air in
      3) replace cap and tighten.
      4) shake vigorously.
      5) remove cap to allow fresh air in.
      6) replace cap loosely.

      I just switched out 2 qt soda bottle because the bottom dimples were almost full of dead yeast.
      Since I want to use my yeast for my samples without concern for adjustment period, I raise my yeast in the same solution as my wash.

      1) water
      2) sugar
      3) salt
      4) DAP
      5) multivitamin
      6) lemon juice (I will have to try vinegar one day.)

      I will add corn starch to this mix when my experiments turn to grains.

      Robert

          



      From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
      To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Yeast Experiment

       
      We regularly keep and use 500ml starters for many weeks (sometimes 10) with no adverse effects. Our weekly health procedure for each flask is mostly:

      1.) Use up to half of the flask for whatever. 
      2.) add few ml of pH 3 acidified boiled water (distilled vinegar works fine)
      3.) add a few ml of 7.5% sodium chlorite
      4.) top off with oxygenated, nutrient enriched 1.040 wort. 

      Which reminds me, I don't see how Robert will be able to get oxygen inside the bottle, but I think a 2-liter would work for a good long time if he figures that out. 


      On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:

       
      I think you may be thinking too small.
      In my experience with salt water aquaria, smaller tanks are much more fragile than larger ones. This is because a small change in water chemistry causes a larger proportional change to the overall health of the tank. In salt water tanks, 30 gallons is about the minimum many experts recommend. It may be cost/space prohibitive for you personally, but you might have greater success with a larger volume.

      I also wonder if you need to monitor the buildup of nitrates and nitrites due to the decomposition of the dead yeast and the inevitable (perhaps not) introduction of stray bacteria. In addition to extracting your samples, consider regularly siphoning waste from the bottom of your vessel and replacing with fresh water & nutrients.
      -j

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Lee,
      >
      > For now, my yeast experiment will fail because I an not operating under good sanitary conditions.  My yeast experiments will continue once sanitary conditions are achievable.   Maybe I will try a wild yeast experiment in the mean time.
      >
      > Robert
      > ________________________________
      > From: Fredrick Lee
      > To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com"
      > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 6:38 PM
      > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Yeast Experiment
      >
      >
      >  
      > As long as you are sanitary, this setup should work for about 11 generations. Afterwards the mutations are so high, you are no longer using the original strain.   Also, the word on the street is that you should make your starting gravity around 1.040 or about 10° depending on what instrument you are measuring with.  You will have to make sure things are extra clean, gloves, mask, everything. Use iodine or acid and peroxide sanitizer or rubbing alcohol to sanitize everything.  One tiny germ from just the air will ruin the entire batch, so burn a torch for a few minutes and work near it to surround yourself with a column of sterile air.  The torch destroys everything. In our lab we use Bunsen burners when not working in sterile air hoods. It's a good $8 internet investment if you're working with yeast and most of them work just fine with regular propane set below one psi. These aren't safe at all, so don't burn your house down or hurt someone or
      > anything. 
      >
      >
      > On Jan 10, 2013, at 3:40 AM, "last2blast" wrote:
      >
      >
      >  
      > >I started my yeast experiment yesterday. If my experiment works as planned, I will never have to purchase large amounts of yeast ever again for my wash experiments.
      > >
      > >My wash experiments consist of 1 gallon samples, so yeast is problematic when a 5g pack of yeast is good enough for 5 gallons of wash.
      > >
      > >Experiment:
      > >10 cups of water was added to a 2 qt soda bottle, 4 cups of sugar, lemon juice, multivitamins, pack of yeast (EC-11218), and DAP.
      > >
      > >From this mixture 1 cup samples will be extracted per 1 gal sample with water and nutrients being replaced as required. At no time will my yeast experiment be allowed to fall below 4 cups, so there will be plenty of yeast available for future growth and experiments.
      > >
      > >If you have anything to add that will help my experiment it would be appreciated.
      > >
      > >Robert



    • RLB
      Fredrick Good idea.  Don t forget that I usually start my experiments with what I have on hand.  If my experiments are somewhat successful and not more
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 12, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Fredrick

        Good idea.  Don't forget that I usually start my experiments with what I have on hand.  If my experiments are somewhat successful and not more complicated then my ability, my experiments progress to the next level.  This is my first attempt at trying to cultivate yeast, so mistakes will most likely to happen before my skill becomes proficient.  My yeast experiment is only six days old, and my yeast is still alive.  We will see how well it does in a month.  I still need to order on line a PH meter.

        Robert




        From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:13 AM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Yeast Experiment

         
        "Fresh air" means bacteria filled air. You will have to make sure the co2 is all evacuated as well. Also, the headspace calculations for shaking  six-gallon carboys with 5 gallons of wort puts oxygenation levels at 30% the ppm of in-line aeration. I expect 2-liters to be worse. Keeping a stir plate going with a flask and sponge-stopper is so much better and the cost is ridiculously cheap, it's almost not worth it. 

        On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:58 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:

         
        Fredrick:

        That is easy!  Shake the bottle vigorously several times a day.

        1) leave cap loose to allow CO2 to escape.
        2) remove cap to allow fresh air in
        3) replace cap and tighten.
        4) shake vigorously.
        5) remove cap to allow fresh air in.
        6) replace cap loosely.

        I just switched out 2 qt soda bottle because the bottom dimples were almost full of dead yeast.
        Since I want to use my yeast for my samples without concern for adjustment period, I raise my yeast in the same solution as my wash.

        1) water
        2) sugar
        3) salt
        4) DAP
        5) multivitamin
        6) lemon juice (I will have to try vinegar one day.)

        I will add corn starch to this mix when my experiments turn to grains.

        Robert

            



        From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
        To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:36 PM
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Yeast Experiment

         
        We regularly keep and use 500ml starters for many weeks (sometimes 10) with no adverse effects. Our weekly health procedure for each flask is mostly:

        1.) Use up to half of the flask for whatever. 
        2.) add few ml of pH 3 acidified boiled water (distilled vinegar works fine)
        3.) add a few ml of 7.5% sodium chlorite
        4.) top off with oxygenated, nutrient enriched 1.040 wort. 

        Which reminds me, I don't see how Robert will be able to get oxygen inside the bottle, but I think a 2-liter would work for a good long time if he figures that out. 


        On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, "jsducote" <jsducote@...> wrote:

         
        I think you may be thinking too small.
        In my experience with salt water aquaria, smaller tanks are much more fragile than larger ones. This is because a small change in water chemistry causes a larger proportional change to the overall health of the tank. In salt water tanks, 30 gallons is about the minimum many experts recommend. It may be cost/space prohibitive for you personally, but you might have greater success with a larger volume.

        I also wonder if you need to monitor the buildup of nitrates and nitrites due to the decomposition of the dead yeast and the inevitable (perhaps not) introduction of stray bacteria. In addition to extracting your samples, consider regularly siphoning waste from the bottom of your vessel and replacing with fresh water & nutrients.
        -j

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Lee,
        >
        > For now, my yeast experiment will fail because I an not operating under good sanitary conditions.  My yeast experiments will continue once sanitary conditions are achievable.   Maybe I will try a wild yeast experiment in the mean time.
        >
        > Robert
        > ________________________________
        > From: Fredrick Lee
        > To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com"
        > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 6:38 PM
        > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Yeast Experiment
        >
        >
        >  
        > As long as you are sanitary, this setup should work for about 11 generations. Afterwards the mutations are so high, you are no longer using the original strain.   Also, the word on the street is that you should make your starting gravity around 1.040 or about 10° depending on what instrument you are measuring with.  You will have to make sure things are extra clean, gloves, mask, everything. Use iodine or acid and peroxide sanitizer or rubbing alcohol to sanitize everything.  One tiny germ from just the air will ruin the entire batch, so burn a torch for a few minutes and work near it to surround yourself with a column of sterile air.  The torch destroys everything. In our lab we use Bunsen burners when not working in sterile air hoods. It's a good $8 internet investment if you're working with yeast and most of them work just fine with regular propane set below one psi. These aren't safe at all, so don't burn your house down or hurt someone or
        > anything. 
        >
        >
        > On Jan 10, 2013, at 3:40 AM, "last2blast" wrote:
        >
        >
        >  
        > >I started my yeast experiment yesterday. If my experiment works as planned, I will never have to purchase large amounts of yeast ever again for my wash experiments.
        > >
        > >My wash experiments consist of 1 gallon samples, so yeast is problematic when a 5g pack of yeast is good enough for 5 gallons of wash.
        > >
        > >Experiment:
        > >10 cups of water was added to a 2 qt soda bottle, 4 cups of sugar, lemon juice, multivitamins, pack of yeast (EC-11218), and DAP.
        > >
        > >From this mixture 1 cup samples will be extracted per 1 gal sample with water and nutrients being replaced as required. At no time will my yeast experiment be allowed to fall below 4 cups, so there will be plenty of yeast available for future growth and experiments.
        > >
        > >If you have anything to add that will help my experiment it would be appreciated.
        > >
        > >Robert





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