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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Temp

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  • Chris Riddiford
    Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second time in a row my fermeting process hasn t really happened, I ve chucked in my
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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      Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.

      It just seems to foam up and nothing else.

      On Jan 2, 2013 6:00 AM, "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
       

      You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
      39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
      cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
      degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
      thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
      dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
      action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
      there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
      product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
      have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

      On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
      > Hi Chris
      >
      > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
      > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
      > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
      > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
      > this helps.
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
      >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
      >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
      >> Celsius.
      >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
      >> stops.
      >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
      >> happen at.
      >>
      >> please and thank you
      >>
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Er. Prashant Jha
      Asst. Engineer
      Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

    • fatbloke
      Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30 s tells me that you haven t done much home brewing of any type..... It depends on what is being fermented, but even this
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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        Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30's tells me that you haven't done much home brewing of any type.....

        It depends on what is being fermented, but even this years "reds", using a professional yeast (BDX) seemed to perform best at about 26C.

        Of course theres other yeast that have very wide temp tolerances, a good example being Lallemand/Lalvin K1-V1116 (listed as being capable of fermenting between about 10 and 35c max. With best results in the high teens to low 20s.

        So it's not such a good idea to push the numbers unless you really want high levels of fusels coming through.

        Even standard "brewing belts" are fixed at 24c which is plenty of warmth for the yeast, unless you're aiming to use one of the less temp tolerant wine yeasts on some special grapes.

        Turbos and sugar wash also appear to work best at the high teens/low 20s too. Equally I wouldnt push them to any theoretical limit either.

        Pip pip!

        "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
         

        You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
        39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
        cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
        degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
        thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
        dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
        action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
        there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
        product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
        have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

        On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
        > Hi Chris
        >
        > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
        > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
        > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
        > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
        > this helps.
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
        >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
        >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
        >> Celsius.
        >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
        >> stops.
        >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
        >> happen at.
        >>
        >> please and thank you
        >>
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Er. Prashant Jha
        Asst. Engineer
        Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

      • Chris Riddiford
        Yeah that would be the problem I thought turbos where good around 21c or so place summer down here my fermention bucked temp strip can hit 38 degress :s Might
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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          Yeah that would be the problem I thought turbos where good around 21c or so place summer down here my fermention bucked temp strip can hit 38 degress :s

          Might wait till "winter" befor tring another wash.

          On Jan 2, 2013 6:25 AM, "fatbloke" <fatbloke@...> wrote:
           

          Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30's tells me that you haven't done much home brewing of any type.....

          It depends on what is being fermented, but even this years "reds", using a professional yeast (BDX) seemed to perform best at about 26C.

          Of course theres other yeast that have very wide temp tolerances, a good example being Lallemand/Lalvin K1-V1116 (listed as being capable of fermenting between about 10 and 35c max. With best results in the high teens to low 20s.

          So it's not such a good idea to push the numbers unless you really want high levels of fusels coming through.

          Even standard "brewing belts" are fixed at 24c which is plenty of warmth for the yeast, unless you're aiming to use one of the less temp tolerant wine yeasts on some special grapes.

          Turbos and sugar wash also appear to work best at the high teens/low 20s too. Equally I wouldnt push them to any theoretical limit either.

          Pip pip!

          "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
           

          You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
          39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
          cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
          degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
          thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
          dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
          action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
          there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
          product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
          have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

          On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
          > Hi Chris
          >
          > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
          > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
          > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
          > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
          > this helps.
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
          >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
          >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
          >> Celsius.
          >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
          >> stops.
          >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
          >> happen at.
          >>
          >> please and thank you
          >>
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Er. Prashant Jha
          Asst. Engineer
          Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

        • tgfoitwoods
          Chris, Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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            Chris,

            Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

            Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
            >
            > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
            > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
            > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
            > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
            >
            > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
            ----snip----
          • Chris Riddiford
            Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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              Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

              On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
               

              Chris,

              Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

              Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
              >
              > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
              > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
              > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
              > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
              >
              > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
              ----snip----

            • Alex Netherton
              I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway. MOD EDIT: Alex,
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 2, 2013
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                I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.

                Chris Riddiford wrote:

                Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

                On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                 

                Chris,

                Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                >
                > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                >
                > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                ----snip----

              • Jeff Kimble
                Yeast require oxygen to reproduce, there have been some experiments at New Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil. zBob is
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 3, 2013
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                  Yeast require oxygen to reproduce,  there have been some experiments at New Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil.  zBob is correct in needing to oxygenate your wash to allow for the yeast growth.    After the growth phase comes the metabolization of alcohol.  Once the sugars are converted, the yeast will go dormant or die off and create additional flavors/phenols in your batch

                  Your turbo yeast should contain all the nutrients for the yeast that's what makes it turbo, but with that comes more off flavors

                  Cheers

                  On Jan 3, 2013 3:56 PM, "Alex Netherton" <blueridgediscovery@...> wrote:
                   

                  I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.

                  Chris Riddiford wrote:

                   

                  Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

                  On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                   

                  Chris,

                  Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                  Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                  >
                  > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                  > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                  > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                  > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                  >
                  > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                  ----snip----

                • Er. Prashant Jha
                  In my industry(shree renuka sugars), we have 3 fermenters which works on continuous fermentation. We aerate first fermenter at the rate 600 m3 air per hour
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 5, 2013
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                    In my industry(shree renuka sugars), we have 3 fermenters which works
                    on continuous fermentation. We aerate first fermenter at the rate 600
                    m3 air per hour with help of blower. Second fermenter is also airated
                    bt less than first. Third fermenter is fully anaerobic. The
                    development of yeast, cell development and growth occurs in first
                    fermenter. Alcohol formation occurs in 2nd and third fermenter.
                    Retention time of all three fermenters is 17 to 18 hours only n alc%
                    in fermented wash is 8 %. Apart from that we also have yeast
                    activation vessel. The yat recieves yeast slurry from decanter where
                    yeast and wash gets seperated. Yat is heavily airated and it acts
                    culture development vessel. The temperature of fermenter is kept at 33
                    degree celcius.

                    On 1/4/13, Jeff Kimble <jeff@...> wrote:
                    > Yeast require oxygen to reproduce, there have been some experiments at New
                    > Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil. zBob
                    > is correct in needing to oxygenate your wash to allow for the yeast
                    > growth. After the growth phase comes the metabolization of alcohol.
                    > Once the sugars are converted, the yeast will go dormant or die off and
                    > create additional flavors/phenols in your batch
                    >
                    > Your turbo yeast should contain all the nutrients for the yeast that's what
                    > makes it turbo, but with that comes more off flavors
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    > On Jan 3, 2013 3:56 PM, "Alex Netherton" <blueridgediscovery@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it
                    >> begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.
                    >>
                    >> Chris Riddiford ** wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe
                    >> ill
                    >> keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow
                    >> On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> **
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Chris,
                    >>>
                    >>> Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the
                    >>> water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply,
                    >>> making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water
                    >>> before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with
                    >>> a
                    >>> whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you
                    >>> have)
                    >>> or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.
                    >>>
                    >>> Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does
                    >>> not
                    >>> live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a
                    >>> couple-three
                    >>> kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or
                    >>> Miracle-Gro or compound your own.
                    >>>
                    >>> Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller *Making Fine
                    >>> Spirits*<http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford ** wrote:
                    >>> >
                    >>> > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the
                    >>> second
                    >>> > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've
                    >>> > chucked
                    >>> in
                    >>> > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the
                    >>> > temp
                    >>> > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                    >>> >
                    >>> > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                    >>> ----snip----
                    >>> **
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >


                    --
                    Er. Prashant Jha
                    Asst. Engineer
                    Sri Renuka Sugars Limited
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