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Re: Temp

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  • blscarter
    Hi Chris i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 28, 2012
      Hi Chris

      i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope this helps.

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast because im down under it gets a little too hot.
      > i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees Celsius.
      > and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process stops.
      > but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly happen at.
      >
      > please and thank you
      >
    • Er. Prashant Jha
      You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is 39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree.
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 31, 2012
        You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
        39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
        cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
        degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
        thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
        dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
        action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
        there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
        product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
        have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

        On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
        > Hi Chris
        >
        > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
        > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
        > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
        > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
        > this helps.
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
        >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
        >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
        >> Celsius.
        >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
        >> stops.
        >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
        >> happen at.
        >>
        >> please and thank you
        >>
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Er. Prashant Jha
        Asst. Engineer
        Sri Renuka Sugars Limited
      • Fredrick Lee
        Above 21°C the yeast will create more complex alcohols, esters, aromatics and phenolic compounds. Above 25°C they taste downright awful. Above 30°C some
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 31, 2012
          Above 21°C the yeast will create more complex alcohols, esters, aromatics and phenolic compounds. Above 25°C they taste downright awful. Above 30°C some start dying, but most start dying around 48°C. 



          On Dec 21, 2012, at 12:51 AM, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:

           

          Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast because im down under it gets a little too hot.
          i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees Celsius.
          and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process stops.
          but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly happen at.

          please and thank you

        • Chris Riddiford
          Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second time in a row my fermeting process hasn t really happened, I ve chucked in my
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013

            Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.

            It just seems to foam up and nothing else.

            On Jan 2, 2013 6:00 AM, "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
             

            You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
            39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
            cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
            degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
            thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
            dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
            action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
            there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
            product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
            have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

            On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
            > Hi Chris
            >
            > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
            > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
            > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
            > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
            > this helps.
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
            >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
            >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
            >> Celsius.
            >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
            >> stops.
            >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
            >> happen at.
            >>
            >> please and thank you
            >>
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Er. Prashant Jha
            Asst. Engineer
            Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

          • fatbloke
            Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30 s tells me that you haven t done much home brewing of any type..... It depends on what is being fermented, but even this
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
              Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30's tells me that you haven't done much home brewing of any type.....

              It depends on what is being fermented, but even this years "reds", using a professional yeast (BDX) seemed to perform best at about 26C.

              Of course theres other yeast that have very wide temp tolerances, a good example being Lallemand/Lalvin K1-V1116 (listed as being capable of fermenting between about 10 and 35c max. With best results in the high teens to low 20s.

              So it's not such a good idea to push the numbers unless you really want high levels of fusels coming through.

              Even standard "brewing belts" are fixed at 24c which is plenty of warmth for the yeast, unless you're aiming to use one of the less temp tolerant wine yeasts on some special grapes.

              Turbos and sugar wash also appear to work best at the high teens/low 20s too. Equally I wouldnt push them to any theoretical limit either.

              Pip pip!

              "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
               

              You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
              39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
              cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
              degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
              thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
              dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
              action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
              there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
              product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
              have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

              On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
              > Hi Chris
              >
              > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
              > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
              > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
              > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
              > this helps.
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
              >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
              >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
              >> Celsius.
              >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
              >> stops.
              >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
              >> happen at.
              >>
              >> please and thank you
              >>
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Er. Prashant Jha
              Asst. Engineer
              Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

            • Chris Riddiford
              Yeah that would be the problem I thought turbos where good around 21c or so place summer down here my fermention bucked temp strip can hit 38 degress :s Might
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013

                Yeah that would be the problem I thought turbos where good around 21c or so place summer down here my fermention bucked temp strip can hit 38 degress :s

                Might wait till "winter" befor tring another wash.

                On Jan 2, 2013 6:25 AM, "fatbloke" <fatbloke@...> wrote:
                 

                Any suggestion of fermenting in the 30's tells me that you haven't done much home brewing of any type.....

                It depends on what is being fermented, but even this years "reds", using a professional yeast (BDX) seemed to perform best at about 26C.

                Of course theres other yeast that have very wide temp tolerances, a good example being Lallemand/Lalvin K1-V1116 (listed as being capable of fermenting between about 10 and 35c max. With best results in the high teens to low 20s.

                So it's not such a good idea to push the numbers unless you really want high levels of fusels coming through.

                Even standard "brewing belts" are fixed at 24c which is plenty of warmth for the yeast, unless you're aiming to use one of the less temp tolerant wine yeasts on some special grapes.

                Turbos and sugar wash also appear to work best at the high teens/low 20s too. Equally I wouldnt push them to any theoretical limit either.

                Pip pip!

                "Er. Prashant Jha" <prashant771@...> wrote:
                 

                You are totally wrong on the point that yeast optimum temperature is
                39 degree. The optimum working temp for yeast (sachharomyces
                cerevisiea) is 31-33 degree. When temp of mash increases above 33
                degree the yeast viability falls drastically. As yeast are not
                thermotolerant that is they withstand high temp therefore it starts
                dying. Below 30 degree celcius the yeast becomes dormant that is their
                action stops. If yeast dies after completion of fermentation than
                there is no issue as it is said that died yeast also add flavor to the
                product. However if you want to seperate dead yeast then you either
                have to centrifuge the beer or have to filter it.

                On 12/29/12, blscarter <blscarter@...> wrote:
                > Hi Chris
                >
                > i have been told that it is 39 degrees & then the yeast dies. you can still
                > cook it it off as normal but the quantity will be less. try putting your
                > fermenter in a tub of water & add freezer blocks to it to keep the temp
                > down. that is what i have done with my wash as i am down under too. hope
                > this helps.
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "skub13" <chris2pher13@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Hi people, just need to double check some stuff to do with the yeast
                >> because im down under it gets a little too hot.
                >> i know when in the fermenting process the recommended temp is 21 degrees
                >> Celsius.
                >> and if it gets to cold (i dont know the temp reading for this) the process
                >> stops.
                >> but what happens when it gets to hot and at what temp does it roughly
                >> happen at.
                >>
                >> please and thank you
                >>
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Er. Prashant Jha
                Asst. Engineer
                Sri Renuka Sugars Limited

              • tgfoitwoods
                Chris, Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
                  Chris,

                  Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                  Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                  >
                  > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                  > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                  > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                  > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                  >
                  > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                  ----snip----
                • Chris Riddiford
                  Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013

                    Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

                    On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                     

                    Chris,

                    Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                    Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                    >
                    > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                    > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                    > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                    > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                    >
                    > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                    ----snip----

                  • Alex Netherton
                    I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway. MOD EDIT: Alex,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 2, 2013
                      I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.

                      Chris Riddiford wrote:

                      Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

                      On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                       

                      Chris,

                      Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                      Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                      >
                      > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                      > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                      > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                      > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                      >
                      > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                      ----snip----

                    • Jeff Kimble
                      Yeast require oxygen to reproduce, there have been some experiments at New Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil. zBob is
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 3, 2013

                        Yeast require oxygen to reproduce,  there have been some experiments at New Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil.  zBob is correct in needing to oxygenate your wash to allow for the yeast growth.    After the growth phase comes the metabolization of alcohol.  Once the sugars are converted, the yeast will go dormant or die off and create additional flavors/phenols in your batch

                        Your turbo yeast should contain all the nutrients for the yeast that's what makes it turbo, but with that comes more off flavors

                        Cheers

                        On Jan 3, 2013 3:56 PM, "Alex Netherton" <blueridgediscovery@...> wrote:
                         

                        I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.

                        Chris Riddiford wrote:

                         

                        Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe ill keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow

                        On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                         

                        Chris,

                        Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply, making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with a whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you have) or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.

                        Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does not live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a couple-three kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or Miracle-Gro or compound your own.

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford wrote:
                        >
                        > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the second
                        > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've chucked in
                        > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the temp
                        > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                        >
                        > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                        ----snip----

                      • Er. Prashant Jha
                        In my industry(shree renuka sugars), we have 3 fermenters which works on continuous fermentation. We aerate first fermenter at the rate 600 m3 air per hour
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 5, 2013
                          In my industry(shree renuka sugars), we have 3 fermenters which works
                          on continuous fermentation. We aerate first fermenter at the rate 600
                          m3 air per hour with help of blower. Second fermenter is also airated
                          bt less than first. Third fermenter is fully anaerobic. The
                          development of yeast, cell development and growth occurs in first
                          fermenter. Alcohol formation occurs in 2nd and third fermenter.
                          Retention time of all three fermenters is 17 to 18 hours only n alc%
                          in fermented wash is 8 %. Apart from that we also have yeast
                          activation vessel. The yat recieves yeast slurry from decanter where
                          yeast and wash gets seperated. Yat is heavily airated and it acts
                          culture development vessel. The temperature of fermenter is kept at 33
                          degree celcius.

                          On 1/4/13, Jeff Kimble <jeff@...> wrote:
                          > Yeast require oxygen to reproduce, there have been some experiments at New
                          > Belgium brewery around providing the oxygen in the form of olive oil. zBob
                          > is correct in needing to oxygenate your wash to allow for the yeast
                          > growth. After the growth phase comes the metabolization of alcohol.
                          > Once the sugars are converted, the yeast will go dormant or die off and
                          > create additional flavors/phenols in your batch
                          >
                          > Your turbo yeast should contain all the nutrients for the yeast that's what
                          > makes it turbo, but with that comes more off flavors
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          > On Jan 3, 2013 3:56 PM, "Alex Netherton" <blueridgediscovery@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >> **
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> I think you will find that yeast is pretty much anaerobic. As soon is it
                          >> begins to produce carbon dioxide, respiration is anaerobic anyway.
                          >>
                          >> Chris Riddiford ** wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Wow fair enough, that would explain it then, thanks for the help maybe
                          >> ill
                          >> keep it more simple and fine an easy spirts recipe to follow
                          >> On Jan 2, 2013 3:54 PM, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> **
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Chris,
                          >>>
                          >>> Two things strike me about your fermentation. First, when you boil the
                          >>> water, you drive out all the oxygen that the yeast needs to multiply,
                          >>> making the yeast's job very hard. You need to aerate/oxygenate the water
                          >>> before you pitch the yeast. This can be done by agitating the liquid with
                          >>> a
                          >>> whisk or a drywall mud stirrer (depending on the amount of wash you
                          >>> have)
                          >>> or by using an aquarium airstone to bubble air or O2 through the wash.
                          >>>
                          >>> Second, I hear no mention of yeast nutrients in your wash. Yeast does
                          >>> not
                          >>> live by sugar alone. Your local homebrew supply should have a
                          >>> couple-three
                          >>> kinds of yeast nutrient, or you can use DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) or
                          >>> Miracle-Gro or compound your own.
                          >>>
                          >>> Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller *Making Fine
                          >>> Spirits*<http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Riddiford ** wrote:
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Okay fair enough but this raises a rather annoying question. For the
                          >>> second
                          >>> > time in a row my fermeting process hasn't really happened, I've
                          >>> > chucked
                          >>> in
                          >>> > my dextros and carbon packs to boilling water then waitted till the
                          >>> > temp
                          >>> > was 21-24 degress before adding my turbo yeast.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > It just seems to foam up and nothing else.
                          >>> ----snip----
                          >>> **
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >


                          --
                          Er. Prashant Jha
                          Asst. Engineer
                          Sri Renuka Sugars Limited
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