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Re: Copper types for pot still

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  • GGB
    Hi Harry I asked a friend who has a PhD in chemistry for some help with this, and his reply is as follows: Mixing the NaCl and acetic acid may be a good
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1, 2012
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      Hi Harry

      I asked a friend who has a PhD in chemistry for some help with this, and his reply is as follows:

      "Mixing the NaCl and acetic acid may be a good cleaner, but it will NOT form HCl.  It simply can't b/z the pK_a of HCl is way lower than that of acetic acid.    It may be a good cleaner, simply b/z it could be forming a good Lewis acid (an electron pair acceptor).  This means it will act as an oxidizing agent, robbing whatever compounds of electrons."

      I had found the definition of acetic acid + salt forming HCL on a couple of web sites, and they seemed authoritative.

      Sorry for the mix up. Never believe everything you read!

      Paul
    • Harry
      ... snip ... It s all good Paul. Thanks for the follow-up. I guess we are all better informed now. ;) Cheers! Slainte! regards Harry
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 2, 2012
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "GGB" <self.adhesive@...> wrote:
        snip>
        > I had found the definition of acetic acid + salt forming HCL on a couple of web sites, and they seemed authoritative.
        >
        > Sorry for the mix up. Never believe everything you read!
        >
        > Paul
        >


        It's all good Paul. Thanks for the follow-up. I guess we are all better informed now. ;) Cheers!


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • roguerider01
        ... wonder if that would be good for heavely rusted copper fire extinguisher
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 21, 2012
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "GGB" <self.adhesive@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Harry
          >
          > I asked a friend who has a PhD in chemistry for some help with this, and his reply is as follows:
          >
          > "Mixing the NaCl and acetic acid may be a good cleaner, but it will NOT form HCl.  It simply can't b/z the pK_a of HCl is way lower than that of acetic acid.    It may be a good cleaner, simply b/z it could be forming a good Lewis acid (an electron pair acceptor).  This means it will act as an oxidizing agent, robbing whatever compounds of electrons."
          >
          > I had found the definition of acetic acid + salt forming HCL on a couple of web sites, and they seemed authoritative.
          >
          > Sorry for the mix up. Never believe everything you read!
          >
          > Paul
          >
          wonder if that would be good for heavely rusted copper fire extinguisher
        • GGB
          roguerider01 wrote: wonder if that would be good for heavely rusted copper fire extinguisher What I found was that the green-blue deposits in copper are
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 21, 2012
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            "roguerider01" wrote: "wonder if that would be good for heavely rusted copper fire extinguisher"

            What I found was that the green-blue deposits in copper are not oxides but chlorides, carbonates and etc. Two types of copper oxide are reddish, and black. The latter forms as a result of brazing ie high temperature.

            Neat HCl will clean away all these salts but not too strong or it will eat away the copper too especially if heated - or that is what I read. I used 28% and a little 33% mixed with old 28%. From memory 35% is the strongest there is. It fumes, be careful with it, and the fumes will cause corrosion of any steel tools etc within a few feet distance over time.

            One of the types of copper chloride, green in colour, dissolves in HCl but when you wash it away with water it comes out of solution and immediately becomes a white salt.

            "Rust" ie iron oxide should not occur with pure copper. Maybe your fire extinguisher is copper plated. HCl will also dissolve rust. You could try some on an inconspicuous place. If the extinguisher is steel I can't vouch for what it will look like afterwards.

            Paul
          • roguerider01
            ... ok thanks paul for the info.... the copper extinguisher was made in 1963 i spoke to a few experts and fire nuts and they clame its 100% copper except the
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 8, 2012
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "GGB" <self.adhesive@...> wrote:
              >
              > "roguerider01" wrote: "wonder if that would be good for heavely rusted copper fire extinguisher"
              >
              > What I found was that the green-blue deposits in copper are not oxides but chlorides, carbonates and etc. Two types of copper oxide are reddish, and black. The latter forms as a result of brazing ie high temperature.
              >
              > Neat HCl will clean away all these salts but not too strong or it will eat away the copper too especially if heated - or that is what I read. I used 28% and a little 33% mixed with old 28%. From memory 35% is the strongest there is. It fumes, be careful with it, and the fumes will cause corrosion of any steel tools etc within a few feet distance over time.
              >
              > One of the types of copper chloride, green in colour, dissolves in HCl but when you wash it away with water it comes out of solution and immediately becomes a white salt.
              >
              > "Rust" ie iron oxide should not occur with pure copper. Maybe your fire extinguisher is copper plated. HCl will also dissolve rust. You could try some on an inconspicuous place. If the extinguisher is steel I can't vouch for what it will look like afterwards.
              >
              > Paul
              >
              ok thanks paul for the info.... the copper extinguisher was made in 1963 i spoke to a few experts and fire nuts and they clame its 100% copper except the head of the extinguisher which is was mixed metals i dont know what thou
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