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Re: Grain Bills

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  • Michael
    I have not done blending but have had good sucess doing all grain mashes. I have brewed all grain beer for 20 + years. My scotch whisky I would favorably
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 11 8:07 AM
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      I have not done blending but have had good sucess doing all grain mashes. I have brewed all grain beer for 20 + years. My "scotch" whisky I would favorably compare to any $40 Scotch. I used US Pale 2 row with 1 lb. of peat smoked malt and did a normal beer mash to 1.080 sg. (calculated for 10% abv) and used Calfornia ale yeast. I set up my reflux unit (3" column) as a pot still and pulled it out at 80%. I cut it to 50% and aged in glass 1 gallon jugs with 1 oz. of med. toast US oak. Let it age 6-9 months, tasting is ok. For my corn whiskey I used 60% flaked corn and 40% US pale malt. Same set up as above on numbers, aging, etc. Do use rice hulls with corn, rye, or wheat because they are gelationous and can cause a stuck mash. I also do constant recirculation so good flow is critical to me. Good luck with your ratios!

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
      >
      > To One and All:
      >
      > I have a respectable amount of experience making beer and wine and have limited experience making 90+% ABV from sugar washes, such as the JEM Wash, using a reflux unit and a lesser experience making whisky from a pot still using a grain bill of all malted barley or whiskey from a pot still using a mash bill corn, rye, and malted barley.
      >
      > I am at a crossroads. I want to learn the differences in the taste profile of whiskey made from several different grain bills but, as you all know, it takes time to mash, ferment, distill, and age the product to a proper degree.
      >
      > In wine making we often make wine from individual varietals of grape, i.e., we make Merlot, Sangiovese, Cabernet Sauvignon, etc and, depending on how each varietal may turn out, we may choose to blend the finished wine to achieve a desired flavor profile. On the other hand, and to a much lesser degree, sometimes the blend is made after crushing and before fermentation. That approach is more of a gamble but some winemakers do it with great success.
      >
      > To the matter at hand, I know that "the big boys" blend from several runs at bottling time to achieve a proper profile. I have always assumed that in most instances the products being blended were from identical or similar mash bills. Can a "finish and blend" approach be used for spirits of significantly different mash bills? If I made a batch of mash using 80% of one prevalent grain with 20% malted barley to supply the enzymes for converting the starch to sugar, distilled each one separately, blend them post distillation and followed that with ageing on oak, would the taste profile of the blend be similar to the taste profile that would result from an original grain bill with the ratio of the blended spirit? As an example; if I made Batch A with 80% corn and 20% malted barley; Batch B with 80% wheat and 20% malted barley, Batch C with 80% rye and 20% malted barley and if I mixed the resulting, individual spirits, 70% A, 10% B, and 20% C, would the mixture have a taste profile equivalent to that of a batch made with 56% corn, 8% wheat, 16% rye, and 20% barley? If so, that would significantly reduce the learning curve and a respectable, or desirable, grain bill could be established for future mashing and further processing.
      >
      > Thanks in advance for advice and comments.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Tom
      >
    • Frank B.
      Hi Torn, One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  There
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 11 10:10 AM
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        Hi Torn,

        One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  There is no circumvention of the learning curve and no one to say how your blend will taste given all the unique factors that will contribute to your end results.  It will definitely help to know the individual distillation characteristics of the various grans used alone, then, start trying different ratios, sugars, yeasts, additives, ect., until you find what your looking for.

        I ran 6 mashes (through my 2.5 gal pot) to get the first one that had a "descent" flavor to me.  I'm exploring  the various results I get using an apple/sugar wash with different sugars and spices to see what I get.  I'm now up to 11 runs, 3 with drink-ability and over a gallon that I'll re-distill, and re-distill up to a vodka...or serve to friends and selected in-laws I don't want to see too often.

        Very good luck to you, and keep up the posts on your progress.

        Willy     
      • Tom
        Willy, Thanks for the advice and perspective. In addition to doing what I described in my posting, I am also doing as you suggested. I have several different
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 11 10:26 AM
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          Willy,

          Thanks for the advice and perspective. In addition to doing what I described in my posting, I am also doing as you suggested. I have several different grain bills behind me. I just feel that there should be a way to make several "master batches" and blend them after distillation to find a grain bill that hits the mark.

          As with wine, I have noticed that the distillate "can" be imbibed early but patience is a vitrue. My "corn" product is several months old and is really mellowing out with time and losing some of the "corn" taste. It is really improving. My all grain barley malt product is even older and is improving too. I used too much peat smoked malt in the grain bill and it's really smokey (lesson learned). Rather than dilute it or rerun it, I decided to let time work on it. After all, the whole exercise is one of building a base of knowledge.

          Other comments are welcomed.

          Cheers,

          Tom

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Torn,
          >
          > One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  

          SNIP>

          > Very good luck to you, and keep up the posts on your progress.
          >
          > Willy     
          >
        • john
          I m getting ready to do my first all grain and planned to ferment on the grain to avoid the stuck sparge issue. Is there any reason I should sparge instead?
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 11 10:51 AM
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            I'm getting ready to do my first all grain and planned to ferment on the grain to avoid the stuck sparge issue. Is there any reason I should sparge instead?

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mmmooretx@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have not done blending but have had good sucess doing all grain mashes. I have brewed all grain beer for 20 + years. My "scotch" whisky I would favorably compare to any $40 Scotch. I used US Pale 2 row with 1 lb. of peat smoked malt and did a normal beer mash to 1.080 sg. (calculated for 10% abv) and used Calfornia ale yeast. I set up my reflux unit (3" column) as a pot still and pulled it out at 80%. I cut it to 50% and aged in glass 1 gallon jugs with 1 oz. of med. toast US oak. Let it age 6-9 months, tasting is ok. For my corn whiskey I used 60% flaked corn and 40% US pale malt. Same set up as above on numbers, aging, etc. Do use rice hulls with corn, rye, or wheat because they are gelationous and can cause a stuck mash. I also do constant recirculation so good flow is critical to me. Good luck with your ratios!
          • tgfoitwoods
            Tom, As a simple first-approximation answer, I d say yes, blending after finishing should come very close to mixing the grains, distilling, and finishing, in
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 11 11:13 AM
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              Tom,

              As a simple first-approximation answer, I'd say "yes, blending after finishing" should come very close to mixing the grains, distilling, and finishing, in flavor.

              The comparison to blending wines doesn't hold up very well, though, for the following reason: When a grain whisk(e)y is distilled by a skilled 'stiller, that 'stiller reserves only the fractions he (or she, hopefully) determines to be part of a fine spirit, and those fractions often differ between grain bills. That mean the whisk(e)y from one grain bill will usually contain different fractions from the whisk(e)y from a different grain bill, something that can't happen if the grains are mixed before distillation.

              While I generally consider winemaking to be more complex than grain wash making, once you have made the decisions about harvest Brix, sulfites, tannins, total acidity, pH, when to press, oaking, and aging, what you get is what you got, and you can't choose which part of your wine you want to blend with which part of another wine.

              To make it even more complex for me, I'm finding that my old "making the cuts" paradigm, where all the retained fractions were contiguous, is now old-fashioned and not good enough. It's becoming clear that, for very specific washes, there may be small fractions in the middle of heads or tails that contribute desirable flavor notes, and they should be saved.

              Anyway, blend distillate and grain bills, and taste and compare. Let us know what you find, and we'll all be smarter. As for me, after all these years, I'm back to figuring out how to make my cuts, again.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
              >
              > To One and All:
              >
              > I have a respectable amount of experience making beer and wine and have limited experience making 90+% ABV from sugar washes, such as the JEM Wash, using a reflux unit and a lesser experience making whisky from a pot still using a grain bill of all malted barley or whiskey from a pot still using a mash bill corn, rye, and malted barley.
              >
              > I am at a crossroads. I want to learn the differences in the taste profile of whiskey made from several different grain bills but, as you all know, it takes time to mash, ferment, distill, and age the product to a proper degree.
              >
              > In wine making we often make wine from individual varietals of grape, i.e., we make Merlot, Sangiovese, Cabernet Sauvignon, etc and, depending on how each varietal may turn out, we may choose to blend the finished wine to achieve a desired flavor profile. On the other hand, and to a much lesser degree, sometimes the blend is made after crushing and before fermentation. That approach is more of a gamble but some winemakers do it with great success.
              >
              > To the matter at hand, I know that "the big boys" blend from several runs at bottling time to achieve a proper profile. I have always assumed that in most instances the products being blended were from identical or similar mash bills. Can a "finish and blend" approach be used for spirits of significantly different mash bills? If I made a batch of mash using 80% of one prevalent grain with 20% malted barley to supply the enzymes for converting the starch to sugar, distilled each one separately, blend them post distillation and followed that with ageing on oak, would the taste profile of the blend be similar to the taste profile that would result from an original grain bill with the ratio of the blended spirit? As an example; if I made Batch A with 80% corn and 20% malted barley; Batch B with 80% wheat and 20% malted barley, Batch C with 80% rye and 20% malted barley and if I mixed the resulting, individual spirits, 70% A, 10% B, and 20% C, would the mixture have a taste profile equivalent to that of a batch made with 56% corn, 8% wheat, 16% rye, and 20% barley? If so, that would significantly reduce the learning curve and a respectable, or desirable, grain bill could be established for future mashing and further processing.
              >
              > Thanks in advance for advice and comments.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Tom
              >
            • Len
              Very interesting, Tom.  I hope you will share your results with the group as you develope your master batches and experiment with the blends.  Good luck.
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 11 12:17 PM
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                Very interesting, Tom.  I hope you will share your results with the group as you develope your master batches and experiment with the blends.  Good luck.

                From: Tom <tomhawk412@...>
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:26 PM
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Grain Bills

                 
                Willy,

                Thanks for the advice and perspective. In addition to doing what I described in my posting, I am also doing as you suggested. I have several different grain bills behind me. I just feel that there should be a way to make several "master batches" and blend them after distillation to find a grain bill that hits the mark.

                As with wine, I have noticed that the distillate "can" be imbibed early but patience is a vitrue. My "corn" product is several months old and is really mellowing out with time and losing some of the "corn" taste. It is really improving. My all grain barley malt product is even older and is improving too. I used too much peat smoked malt in the grain bill and it's really smokey (lesson learned). Rather than dilute it or rerun it, I decided to let time work on it. After all, the whole exercise is one of building a base of knowledge.

                Other comments are welcomed.

                Cheers,

                Tom

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Torn,
                >
                > One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  

                SNIP>

                > Very good luck to you, and keep up the posts on your progress.
                >
                > Willy     
                >



              • Tom
                Z Bob, Thanks for your comments. I guess I m going to jump into the master, one-grain batch thing and see what I can learn. This hobby is many faceted and
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 11 1:10 PM
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                  Z Bob,

                  Thanks for your comments. I guess I'm going to jump into the "master, one-grain batch" thing and see what I can learn. This hobby is many faceted and can certainly offer a plethora of paths to try (or not).

                  Thanks,

                  Tom

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > As a simple first-approximation answer, I'd say "yes, blending after
                  > finishing" should come very close to mixing the grains, distilling, and

                  > SNIP> >
                  >
                • Tom
                  Len, I will certainly share what I learn. Regards, Tom
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 11 1:12 PM
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                    Len,

                    I will certainly share what I learn.

                    Regards,

                    Tom

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Len <seadragon79@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Very interesting, Tom.  I hope you will share your results with the group as you develope your master batches and experiment with the blends.  Good luck.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Tom <tomhawk412@...>
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:26 PM
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Grain Bills
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Willy,
                    >
                    > Thanks for the advice and perspective. In addition to doing what I described in my posting, I am also doing as you suggested. I have several different grain bills behind me. I just feel that there should be a way to make several "master batches" and blend them after distillation to find a grain bill that hits the mark.
                    >
                    > As with wine, I have noticed that the distillate "can" be imbibed early but patience is a vitrue. My "corn" product is several months old and is really mellowing out with time and losing some of the "corn" taste. It is really improving. My all grain barley malt product is even older and is improving too. I used too much peat smoked malt in the grain bill and it's really smokey (lesson learned). Rather than dilute it or rerun it, I decided to let time work on it. After all, the whole exercise is one of building a base of knowledge.
                    >
                    > Other comments are welcomed.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Tom
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Torn,
                    > >
                    > > One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  
                    >
                    > SNIP>
                    >
                    > > Very good luck to you, and keep up the posts on your progress.
                    > >
                    > > Willy     
                    > >
                    >
                  • Tom
                    Michael, Thanks for your reply. My Scotch mash was 12.8 lbs 2-Row Brewers Malt, 2.0 lbs Peated Malt with 1 lb. rice hulls, sparged and fermented with
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 11 4:10 PM
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                      Michael,

                      Thanks for your reply.

                      My "Scotch" mash was 12.8 lbs 2-Row Brewers Malt, 2.0 lbs Peated Malt with 1 lb. rice hulls, sparged and fermented with Liquor-Quick Whiskey Pure yeast; original gravity 1.085. It finished at 10.2% ABV. I found it to be too smoky but it's 5 months old and is mellowing out.

                      My "Corn" mash was 8.33 lbs Flaked Maize (corn) 2.00 lbs Flaked Rye and 3.33 lbs 2-Row Brewers Malt, fermented on the grain with Liquor-Quick Whiskey Pure yeast, original gravity 1.077. It finished at 10.5% ABV. It was heavy on the "corn" flavor but is really mellowing out after 3 months. Both were distilled in my pot still.

                      Both batches need more "time" on oak. I've got time.

                      Tom



                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mmmooretx@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have not done blending but have had good sucess doing all grain mashes. I have brewed all grain beer for 20 + years. My "scotch" whisky I would favorably compare to any $40 Scotch. I used US Pale 2 row with 1 lb. of peat smoked malt and did a normal beer mash to 1.080 sg. (calculated for 10% abv) and used Calfornia ale yeast. I set up my reflux unit (3" column) as a pot still and pulled it out at 80%. I cut it to 50% and aged in glass 1 gallon jugs with 1 oz. of med. toast US oak. Let it age 6-9 months, tasting is ok. For my corn whiskey I used 60% flaked corn and 40% US pale malt. Same set up as above on numbers, aging, etc. Do use rice hulls with corn, rye, or wheat because they are gelationous and can cause a stuck mash. I also do constant recirculation so good flow is critical to me. Good luck with your ratios!
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > To One and All:
                      > >
                      > > I have a respectable amount of experience making beer and wine and have limited experience making 90+% ABV from sugar washes, such as the JEM Wash, using a reflux unit and a lesser experience making whisky from a pot still using a grain bill of all malted barley or whiskey from a pot still using a mash bill corn, rye, and malted barley.
                      > >
                      > > I am at a crossroads. I want to learn the differences in the taste profile of whiskey made from several different grain bills but, as you all know, it takes time to mash, ferment, distill, and age the product to a proper degree.
                      > >
                      > > In wine making we often make wine from individual varietals of grape, i.e., we make Merlot, Sangiovese, Cabernet Sauvignon, etc and, depending on how each varietal may turn out, we may choose to blend the finished wine to achieve a desired flavor profile. On the other hand, and to a much lesser degree, sometimes the blend is made after crushing and before fermentation. That approach is more of a gamble but some winemakers do it with great success.
                      > >
                      > > To the matter at hand, I know that "the big boys" blend from several runs at bottling time to achieve a proper profile. I have always assumed that in most instances the products being blended were from identical or similar mash bills. Can a "finish and blend" approach be used for spirits of significantly different mash bills? If I made a batch of mash using 80% of one prevalent grain with 20% malted barley to supply the enzymes for converting the starch to sugar, distilled each one separately, blend them post distillation and followed that with ageing on oak, would the taste profile of the blend be similar to the taste profile that would result from an original grain bill with the ratio of the blended spirit? As an example; if I made Batch A with 80% corn and 20% malted barley; Batch B with 80% wheat and 20% malted barley, Batch C with 80% rye and 20% malted barley and if I mixed the resulting, individual spirits, 70% A, 10% B, and 20% C, would the mixture have a taste profile equivalent to that of a batch made with 56% corn, 8% wheat, 16% rye, and 20% barley? If so, that would significantly reduce the learning curve and a respectable, or desirable, grain bill could be established for future mashing and further processing.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks in advance for advice and comments.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > >
                      > > Tom
                      > >
                      >
                    • john
                      I m starting my first all grain soon and was planning on fermenting on the grain rather than sparging. I figured it would be easier. I noticed you are
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 11 4:36 PM
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                        I'm starting my first all grain soon and was planning on fermenting on the grain rather than sparging. I figured it would be easier. I noticed you are sparging. Is sparging the preferred method? Just wondered what the benefit is over fermenting on the grain.

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Michael,
                        >
                        > Thanks for your reply.
                        >
                        > My "Scotch" mash was 12.8 lbs 2-Row Brewers Malt, 2.0 lbs Peated Malt with 1 lb. rice hulls, sparged and fermented with Liquor-Quick Whiskey Pure yeast; original gravity 1.085. It finished at 10.2% ABV. I found it to be too smoky but it's 5 months old and is mellowing out.
                        >
                        > My "Corn" mash was 8.33 lbs Flaked Maize (corn) 2.00 lbs Flaked Rye and 3.33 lbs 2-Row Brewers Malt, fermented on the grain with Liquor-Quick Whiskey Pure yeast, original gravity 1.077. It finished at 10.5% ABV. It was heavy on the "corn" flavor but is really mellowing out after 3 months. Both were distilled in my pot still.
                        >
                        > Both batches need more "time" on oak. I've got time.
                        >
                        > Tom
                        >
                      • Tom
                        John, I m far from an expert but I will tell you my reasoning. I ferment on the grain with my mash made with flaked corn, flaked rye, and crushed, malted
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 12 4:46 AM
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                          John,

                          I'm far from an expert but I will tell you my reasoning. I ferment "on the grain" with my mash made with flaked corn, flaked rye, and crushed, malted barley because there's nothing to sparge except the malted barley component; the rest is similar to a thick porridge and can't be sparged. I strain it through a 5-gallon paint straining bag after fermentation. I sparge the "scotch" mash as it is really all-grain and I believe fermenting on the grain could induce bitterness from the husks of the grain. I have read that the Scotch distilleries sparge - so I do it. When sparging the grain, I strain it through a 5-gallon paint strainer and then "wash it" with a couple of gallons of hot water to get out the retained sugar.

                          More knowledgeable people may correct me - but at this point in my learning curve, that's what I do.

                          Regards,

                          Tom



                          SNIP

                          Is sparging the preferred method? Just wondered what the benefit is over fermenting on the grain.
                          >
                        • Scott Fischer
                          Thanks for the info and sorry for the double post. I didn t think the first one went through.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 12 7:06 AM
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                            Thanks for the info and sorry for the double post. I didn't think the first one went through. 

                          • tgfoitwoods
                            John, I sparge my barley malt whiskies because I can, because barley malt sparges so nicely and I have the gear and experience to do it. Sparge may be too
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 12 10:14 AM
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                              John,

                              I sparge my barley malt whiskies because I can, because barley malt sparges so nicely and I have the gear and experience to do it.

                              "Sparge" may be too delicate and precise a word to describe how I torture the liquid off a corn/wheat mash, a bitch of a process that someone just described as a gummy porridge. The reason I want the liquid off the corn is that "porridge" scorches, sticks, and burns so easily. It's impossible for that reason, to distill with an electric element, difficult and iffy with external gas heat, and only workable with steam injection or jacket, or a bain marie setup with glycol or other high-boiling liquids.

                              Lest you imagine that more pressure is the key to corn-liquid separation, I've tried to use my wine press with a muslin filter bag to separate the corn liquid, and it's a complete conceptual failure; at elevated pressure the corn mash turns into a synthetic composite sealant, and filtering stops completely, except for microscopic jets of corn juice that landed 6 feet away from the press and liquid collector.

                              Low pressure, lotsa time, a bit of gravity, some dilution with water, and rice hulls will all be your friends.

                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "john" <buildingmotive@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I'm getting ready to do my first all grain and planned to ferment on the grain to avoid the stuck sparge issue. Is there any reason I should sparge instead?
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" mmmooretx@ wrote:
                              > >
                              ----snip----
                            • lostwilly929
                              how are you ageing your product? This is another area I ll be moving into shortly. Screwing up a half dozen mashes is regretful, but ruining an aged batch
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 12 11:35 AM
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                                how are you ageing your product? This is another area I'll be moving into shortly. Screwing up a half dozen mashes is regretful, but ruining an aged batch would have the spirit of John Jameson haunting me.

                                willy

                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Willy,
                                >
                                > Thanks for the advice and perspective. In addition to doing what I described in my posting, I am also doing as you suggested. I have several different grain bills behind me. I just feel that there should be a way to make several "master batches" and blend them after distillation to find a grain bill that hits the mark.
                                >
                                > As with wine, I have noticed that the distillate "can" be imbibed early but patience is a vitrue. My "corn" product is several months old and is really mellowing out with time and losing some of the "corn" taste. It is really improving. My all grain barley malt product is even older and is improving too. I used too much peat smoked malt in the grain bill and it's really smokey (lesson learned). Rather than dilute it or rerun it, I decided to let time work on it. After all, the whole exercise is one of building a base of knowledge.
                                >
                                > Other comments are welcomed.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                >
                                > Tom
                                >
                                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi Torn,
                                > >
                                > > One new distiller to another, use the KISS method to start.  If you have a particular preference to one whiskey, start with those grains.  
                                >
                                > SNIP>
                                >
                                > > Very good luck to you, and keep up the posts on your progress.
                                > >
                                > > Willy     
                                > >
                                >
                              • Tom
                                Willy, My ageing technique is still in the learning stages but here s what I do: I purchased a bag of Jack Daniel s Tennessee Whiskey Wood Smoking Chips. The
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 15 7:14 PM
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                                  Willy,

                                  My ageing technique is still in the learning stages but here's what I do:

                                  I purchased a bag of Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey Wood Smoking Chips. The chips are from oak whiskey ageing barrels and can be bought in the U.S. in most places that sell grilling supplies. I put the spirits in a suitably sized glass container and add 20 grams of the chips per liter and close the container with a stopper, screw cap, or whatever is appropriate. I shake the container each day or so or whenever I think about it. That's it.

                                  I have also taken 1" x 1" x 6" white oak strips (make sure the wood is white oak and contains no preservatives of wood finish) and have charred them heavily (alligator char). I add one strip per 1/2 gallon of spirits along with 50 grams of the Jack Daniel's chips. Shake as above. This method seems to be the best - so far.

                                  Tom

                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > how are you ageing your product?

                                  SNIP
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