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Re: beano in the mash

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  • chartreusesky
    Willy, I can t help out on the potato bit, but beano has been used in the beer homebrewing community before. Basically it s an enzyme that helps break down
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 31, 2012
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      Willy,

      I can't help out on the potato bit, but beano has been used in the beer homebrewing community before. Basically it's an enzyme that helps break down complex sugars into simple sugars that the yeast can use. So it should help push a mash with more unfermentables towards a higher final gravity.

      Cheers,
      Chris

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
      >
      > I've been playing with potatoes trying to make a traditional vodka...so far no luck. In my research I did come across a complicated mash recipe where the potatoes are (cleaned, bad spots cut out) ground and pressed. The leavings re-hydrated in steps, pressed and washed after steeping at 118 and, again at 150 degrees. Finally the leavings are boiled, mashed to paste and when everything is cooled to 75 degrees mixed to a total volume of 3+ gallons (using 5 pounds of spuds to start with).
      >
      > Once it was all mixed, yeast nutrient added, my sp.gr. was 1.012..and hour later 1.020. Might be on to something with this technique.
      >
      > I'd also read that Beano (yes the gas pill) could be added to the mash to help break down the starch to simpler sugars...to my 3 gallons I added 2 crushed tablets, 1 TBS of bakers yeast, and 1 cup of sugar (for shits and giggles). 12 hours later I have blown the fermentation lock off twice, even though there is about 6 inches of head space in the fermenter. The foam being generated is quite thick and has potato pieces in it blocking the vent tip. I've added a TSP of butter to the mash (this has settled the foaming quite a bit) and she's just bubbling away.
      >
      > Any one else been down this road, or, parts of it? Esp the Beano and spud prep.
      >
      > Willy
      >
    • lostwilly929
      ... @Zymurgy Bob, hey Bob, I check d out the video on the site above and would really like to know how much product he was able to pull from 7 pounds of
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 31, 2012
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
        >
        > Willy,
        >
        > As far as I know, this is the best and most current information on
        > mashing and fermenting potatoes.
        >
        > http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5983
        >
        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
        > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
        >

        @Zymurgy Bob, hey Bob, I check'd out the video on the site above and would really like to know how much product he was able to pull from 7 pounds of potatoes. I'll also have to ask him to send me or publish the original Latvian method (circa 1790) of vodka production.

        My current mash of potatoes is giving me troubles. It went from explosive fermentation to stall. I add'd sugar and it went nuts again and stalled...hmmmm. I popped the lock of and stirred it, even with the butter, the foam was up to the top of the fermenter again. Now an hour has passed and no bubbles out of it. not sure what to do next...prolly watch it for a day or two and start over.

        willy
      • waljaco
        Beano is alpha galactosidase - you use it with malt or equivalent enzymes to get more conversion. In the recipe below beano by itself would be insufficient.
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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          Beano is alpha galactosidase - you use it with malt or equivalent enzymes to get more conversion. In the recipe below beano by itself would be insufficient.
          wal

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chartreusesky" <childred@...> wrote:
          >
          > Willy,
          >
          > I can't help out on the potato bit, but beano has been used in the beer homebrewing community before. Basically it's an enzyme that helps break down complex sugars into simple sugars that the yeast can use. So it should help push a mash with more unfermentables towards a higher final gravity.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Chris
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I've been playing with potatoes trying to make a traditional vodka...so far no luck. In my research I did come across a complicated mash recipe where the potatoes are (cleaned, bad spots cut out) ground and pressed. The leavings re-hydrated in steps, pressed and washed after steeping at 118 and, again at 150 degrees. Finally the leavings are boiled, mashed to paste and when everything is cooled to 75 degrees mixed to a total volume of 3+ gallons (using 5 pounds of spuds to start with).
          > >
          > > Once it was all mixed, yeast nutrient added, my sp.gr. was 1.012..and hour later 1.020. Might be on to something with this technique.
          > >
          > > I'd also read that Beano (yes the gas pill) could be added to the mash to help break down the starch to simpler sugars...to my 3 gallons I added 2 crushed tablets, 1 TBS of bakers yeast, and 1 cup of sugar (for shits and giggles). 12 hours later I have blown the fermentation lock off twice, even though there is about 6 inches of head space in the fermenter. The foam being generated is quite thick and has potato pieces in it blocking the vent tip. I've added a TSP of butter to the mash (this has settled the foaming quite a bit) and she's just bubbling away.
          > >
          > > Any one else been down this road, or, parts of it? Esp the Beano and spud prep.
          > >
          > > Willy
          > >
          >
        • Frank B.
          I ended up using 3 tablets in a 3 gallon mash.  It want ballistic for about 12 hours and died.  Nothing I tried brought it back, additions of sugar,
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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            I ended up using 3 tablets in a 3 gallon mash.  It want ballistic for about 12 hours and died.  Nothing I tried brought it back, additions of sugar, yeast, nutrient, B-12, and Epsom Salts (Mg SO4).  after now 4 days I'm reading about 4% ABV.  Tonight, after taps, I'll be adding this mash to the compost pile.  I'd really like to know how vodka like hooch was made back when there wasn't a myriad of additives to confuse us not so bright shiners.  My intuition tells me to use only natural and available stuff for my brew....the best source of natural amylase enzyme is saliva... so, the next mash I guess I'm chewing up 5 or 10 pounds of raw spuds.  What do you guys think of that approach?     
          • tgfoitwoods
            Willy, My first question is about your reading about 4% ABV . What instrument did you use to get an ABV reading from what may be a partially-fermented wash?
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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              Willy,

              My first question is about your "reading about 4% ABV". What instrument did you use to get an ABV reading from what may be a partially-fermented wash?

              As far as converting the potato starch by "natural" means, specifically avoiding commercial enzymes, I'd go for a good malted 6-row barley. If you take care with conversion temperatures and pH, you should be able to utilize the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes in the malt to convert the potato starch (after cooking the potatoes, from what I recall).

              Having said that, for years we've watched people on this list (and others) try to make potato vodka, with great frustration and/or dissatisfaction. Skilled or newby, the only person I've ever heard admit to "success" is Pintoshine with his purchased enzymes, the link I passed to you (last week?). We all know it can be done, but yield and satisfaction may not make it worthwhile to you.

              Just one stiller's opinion.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
              >
              > I ended up using 3 tablets in a 3 gallon mash.  It want ballistic for about 12 hours and died.  Nothing I tried brought it back, additions of sugar, yeast, nutrient, B-12, and Epsom Salts (Mg SO4).  after now 4 days I'm reading about 4% ABV.  Tonight, after taps, I'll be adding this mash to the compost pile.  I'd really like to know how vodka like hooch was made back when there wasn't a myriad of additives to confuse us not so bright shiners.  My intuition tells me to use only natural and available stuff for my brew....the best source of natural amylase enzyme is saliva... so, the next mash I guess I'm chewing up 5 or 10 pounds of raw spuds.  What do you guys think of that approach?     
              >
            • Harry
              To be honest, I don t see what the fixation is with potatoes. Maybe it s just popular belief? They are just a source of starch. So is flour, and any number
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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                To be honest, I don't see what the fixation is with potatoes. Maybe it's just popular belief? They are just a source of starch. So is flour, and any number of grains. Which were all used to make vodka in centuries gone by. Potatoes were only used as a last resort when the others were not available, or countries/regions couldn't grow grain.
                Same as potato starch was used to make bread when grain crops failed. Bit of trivia for you there (longtime baker here before I was a distiller). :)

                No matter the starch source, you still have to convert it to sugars. Then those sugars have to be converted to the simple sugar glucose before yeast can use them at all.

                Methinks the simplest no-fuss solution is to start with a sugar source in the first place! By all means, play with starches later if you've a mind to. BUT, only when you understand what the hell it's all about and what you can expect (low yields & a lot of work & failures for example).

                Think about this...commercial spirits producers would use sugar sources in a heartbeat, if not for laws preventing them.


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
                ====================================

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Willy,
                >
                > My first question is about your "reading about 4% ABV". What instrument
                > did you use to get an ABV reading from what may be a partially-fermented
                > wash?
                >
                > As far as converting the potato starch by "natural" means, specifically
                > avoiding commercial enzymes, I'd go for a good malted 6-row barley. If
                > you take care with conversion temperatures and pH, you should be able to
                > utilize the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes in the malt to convert the
                > potato starch (after cooking the potatoes, from what I recall).
                >
                > Having said that, for years we've watched people on this list (and
                > others) try to make potato vodka, with great frustration and/or
                > dissatisfaction. Skilled or newby, the only person I've ever heard admit
                > to "success" is Pintoshine with his purchased enzymes, the link I passed
                > to you (last week?). We all know it can be done, but yield and
                > satisfaction may not make it worthwhile to you.
                >
                > Just one stiller's opinion.
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I ended up using 3 tablets in a 3 gallon mash. It want ballistic for
                > about 12 hours and died. Nothing I tried brought it back, additions of
                > sugar, yeast, nutrient, B-12, and Epsom Salts (Mg SO4). after now 4
                > days I'm reading about 4% ABV. Tonight, after taps, I'll be adding this
                > mash to the compost pile. I'd really like to know how vodka like hooch
                > was made back when there wasn't a myriad of additives to confuse us not
                > so bright shiners. My intuition tells me to use only natural and
                > available stuff for my brew....the best source of natural amylase enzyme
                > is saliva... so, the next mash I guess I'm chewing up 5 or 10 pounds of
                > raw spuds. What do you guys think of that approach?
                > >
                >
              • White Bear
                Friends-   I have been following a thread pertaining to aging spirits with charred oak sticks.  I am a newbe here and was just wondering- are the charred
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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                  Friends-
                    I have been following a thread pertaining to aging spirits with charred oak sticks.  I am a newbe here and was just wondering- are the charred sticks placed in the spirits before cutting or after.  Thanks for every and all answers.
                   
                  White Bear

                • Steve
                  Generally, you will cut the spirit to around 60-65%, then age. Steve Roberson ... From: White Bear To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 4, 2012
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                    Generally, you will cut the spirit to around 60-65%, then age.
                     
                     
                    Steve Roberson
                     

                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:50 PM
                    Subject: [new_distillers] Wood aging spirits

                     

                    Friends-
                      I have been following a thread pertaining to aging spirits with charred oak sticks.  I am a newbe here and was just wondering- are the charred sticks placed in the spirits before cutting or after.  Thanks for every and all answers.
                     
                    White Bear

                  • waljaco
                    In Poland they use potatoes with a high starch content! Even with a maximum of 20% fermentable material potatoes cannot match grain at about 60%. Most table
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 5, 2012
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                      In Poland they use potatoes with a high starch content! Even with a maximum of 20% fermentable material potatoes cannot match grain at about 60%. Most table potatoes have only a 10% fermentable content.
                      Potatoes need to be cooked to rupture starch cells - any natural enzymes will be thus destroyed and thus need to be added to convert the starch to fermentable sugars.
                      See -
                      http://tinyurl.com/2ue7u
                      wal

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Willy,
                      >
                      > My first question is about your "reading about 4% ABV". What instrument
                      > did you use to get an ABV reading from what may be a partially-fermented
                      > wash?
                      >
                      > As far as converting the potato starch by "natural" means, specifically
                      > avoiding commercial enzymes, I'd go for a good malted 6-row barley. If
                      > you take care with conversion temperatures and pH, you should be able to
                      > utilize the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes in the malt to convert the
                      > potato starch (after cooking the potatoes, from what I recall).
                      >
                      > Having said that, for years we've watched people on this list (and
                      > others) try to make potato vodka, with great frustration and/or
                      > dissatisfaction. Skilled or newby, the only person I've ever heard admit
                      > to "success" is Pintoshine with his purchased enzymes, the link I passed
                      > to you (last week?). We all know it can be done, but yield and
                      > satisfaction may not make it worthwhile to you.
                      >
                      > Just one stiller's opinion.
                      >
                      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                      > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank B." <lostwilly929@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I ended up using 3 tablets in a 3 gallon mash. It want ballistic for
                      > about 12 hours and died. Nothing I tried brought it back, additions of
                      > sugar, yeast, nutrient, B-12, and Epsom Salts (Mg SO4). after now 4
                      > days I'm reading about 4% ABV. Tonight, after taps, I'll be adding this
                      > mash to the compost pile. I'd really like to know how vodka like hooch
                      > was made back when there wasn't a myriad of additives to confuse us not
                      > so bright shiners. My intuition tells me to use only natural and
                      > available stuff for my brew....the best source of natural amylase enzyme
                      > is saliva... so, the next mash I guess I'm chewing up 5 or 10 pounds of
                      > raw spuds. What do you guys think of that approach?
                      > >
                      >
                    • Frank B.
                      @ Harry and  Zymurgy Bob, thanks for the input. it s all good stuff.  I used both an alco-meter and sp.gr. calculation to get my guess of 4%.  I did a
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 5, 2012
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                        @ Harry and  Zymurgy Bob, thanks for the input. it's all good stuff.  I used both an alco-meter and sp.gr. calculation to get my guess of 4%.  I did a stripping run of about 3.5 gallons and got 20 oz. of 90 proof out of it.  It was a lot of work for a very small return, but, I'm kinda hard headed about things like that.  I seem to "know" there is something there to discover and really want to know what it is....hope it's more than just re-proving something doesn't work, lol.  I guess I'm just a purest at heart, I'd like to grow my own fermentables, build my own still and do it all off the grid some place as a hermit.  Potatoes seemed and easy thing to grow.  I know the best loaf of bread I ever made was with hand ground flour and baked in a rock and foil oven next to a camp fire; hoping potato vodka gets me the same feeling (been a loafer myself for a few moons, Harry).  I like the nut's and bolt's approach to distilling, how things work...just open a few packages isn't going to teach me much.  I've been married twice, so following directions doesn't come easy to me.

                        As all my potato mashes have failed to various degrees, I am going to a corn mash (crack it myself with a hand grinder) and see what that makes.  Potatoes will still be with me, as will trying to get the starches to convert...may be there is a particular mold I can find that produces the right enzymes...might be as simple as putting sour dough bread on the mash in a hooch fashion.  I got more time and toys than talent (at present) so why not experiment?  what ever alcohol I can tease out I can save and redistill a time or two...may get a nice neutral spirit or something better suited to an alcohol stove; either way it's the journey not the the destination, right?

                        Willy  
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