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Re: mash PH

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  • tgfoitwoods
    Willy, Ok, ya caught me in a generalization intended to keep the beginning fermenter from making pH the most important factor. In your case, it sounds like you
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 25, 2012
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      Willy,

      Ok, ya caught me in a generalization intended to keep the beginning fermenter from making pH the most important factor. In your case, it sounds like you are trying to use enzymes (from whatever source) to break down starches to simple fermentable sugars, and those enzymes do have pH preferences, pH's at which the starch conversion proceedss most rapidly. To muddy the waters, each of those enzymes, each of which does a slightly different job from the other enzymes, also has a specific temperature range where it works best.

      In actual practice, most "mashers" will pick a pH that is a good compromise for the enzymes they are using, while they may also pick a change in temperature range that will allow all the enzymes (often just two) to be at their best.

      Because I've only used on variety of (mixed) bottle enzymes, and a single conversion temperature, and didn't fuss with pH, I don't have the specific pH and temperature data I've been talking about, but there have been lots of detailed discussions on the subject in Pintoshine's Artisan Distiller forum, http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/index.php. I'd look in the "Mash, Ferment, and Distill" section for the appropriate threads.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@...> wrote:
      >
      > @>Zymurgy Bob...Hey Bob thanks for info, it's all good stuff to know. Guess what I'm actually wondering is if PH effects the break down of starches into sugars? I'd like to make a potent potable (vodka-esq) without using refined sugar or commercial yeast. Any insights?
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Willy,
      > > Here's a generalization on pH.
      > >
      > > "As I said in the section "This Time Ignore pH", on page 64, do
      > > not try to fine-tune the pH of your wash by dumping chemicals in it.
      > > Unless you are lucky or very knowledgeable, you'll probably harm
      > > your wash. If the pH is anywhere between 3.0 and 7.0 anytime during the
      > > ferment, trust the yeast to do the right thing, and it will, although
      > > perhaps not at the rate you desire. Most yeast strains will actually
      > > work in a 5% glucose solution between pH2.4 and 7.4, ceasing activity
      > > entirely at pH2.0 and 8.0, so an out-of-range pH is rarely the cause of
      > > a stuck ferment in a normal ferment. A healthy ferment will have some
      > > pronounced pH swings in the process, and trying to interfere can be
      > > unwise." from Making Fine Spirits by Zymurgy Bob, from The Amphora
      > > Society.
      > >
      > > I'll admit to being very cautious in those statements, but I'll
      > > essentially stick by them.
      > >
      > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
      > > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > hey friends, I ran my first batch with a new 2.5 gal. Alimbic...and
      > > while it did smell pretty gnarley, it did burn and didn't leave a soot
      > > ring in the shot glass. Now knowing I have the soul of a shiner, I'm
      > > going over different recipes some have higher acidic ingredients like
      > > lemons. I was wondering if any of y'all knew what effects lower PH
      > > (acidic) had or provide for.
      > > >
      > > > Willy
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • lostwilly929
      hey Bob looks like we have a dialogue going, great! I am very new to distilling, but have dabbled in a lot of stuff and am quite proficient at confusing
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 25, 2012
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        hey Bob looks like we have a dialogue going, great! I am very new to distilling, but have dabbled in a lot of stuff and am quite proficient at confusing myself...and others. I know that amylase will break down the starches in to sugars which are consumed yielding CO2 and ethanol. Saliva is a great source of amylase...however, chewing up and spitting out 10 or so pounds of potatoes (for a 5 gal. mash)is asking a lot of my false teeth. Getting a few buddies over to help doesn't sound to good either...cause then I'd have to share the hooch. I don't mind sharing, just hate to feel obliged to do so. But, I digress. Raw foods have the necessary enzymes to digest their starches, but the enzymes are killed off if cooked. Potatoes, for one, have enzymes that are released if steeped @ 118 degrees, above that they are killed off; malted barley, 150, ect. Teasing out the enzymes may be asking too much of the distiller, but the purest in me wants to be able to make his hooch off-grid and as it was made 200 years ago. Just think about it...one could share the same hang-over with a good nature'd distiller from antiquity. If you happen to run across any info on enzyme teasing. please pass it along.

        willy

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
        >
        > Willy,
        >
        > Ok, ya caught me in a generalization intended to keep the beginning
        > fermenter from making pH the most important factor. In your case, it
        > sounds like you are trying to use enzymes (from whatever source) to
        > break down starches to simple fermentable sugars, and those enzymes do
        > have pH preferences, pH's at which the starch conversion proceedss most
        > rapidly. To muddy the waters, each of those enzymes, each of which does
        > a slightly different job from the other enzymes, also has a specific
        > temperature range where it works best.
        >
        > In actual practice, most "mashers" will pick a pH that is a good
        > compromise for the enzymes they are using, while they may also pick a
        > change in temperature range that will allow all the enzymes (often just
        > two) to be at their best.
        >
        > Because I've only used on variety of (mixed) bottle enzymes, and a
        > single conversion temperature, and didn't fuss with pH, I don't have the
        > specific pH and temperature data I've been talking about, but there have
        > been lots of detailed discussions on the subject in Pintoshine's Artisan
        > Distiller forum, http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/index.php. I'd
        > look in the "Mash, Ferment, and Distill" section for the appropriate
        > threads.
        >
        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
        > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
        >
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929" <lostwilly929@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > @>Zymurgy Bob...Hey Bob thanks for info, it's all good stuff to know.
        > Guess what I'm actually wondering is if PH effects the break down of
        > starches into sugars? I'd like to make a potent potable (vodka-esq)
        > without using refined sugar or commercial yeast. Any insights?
        > >
        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" zymurgybob@
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Willy,
        > > > Here's a generalization on pH.
        > > >
        > > > "As I said in the section "This Time Ignore pH", on page 64, do
        > > > not try to fine-tune the pH of your wash by dumping chemicals in it.
        > > > Unless you are lucky or very knowledgeable, you'll probably harm
        > > > your wash. If the pH is anywhere between 3.0 and 7.0 anytime during
        > the
        > > > ferment, trust the yeast to do the right thing, and it will,
        > although
        > > > perhaps not at the rate you desire. Most yeast strains will actually
        > > > work in a 5% glucose solution between pH2.4 and 7.4, ceasing
        > activity
        > > > entirely at pH2.0 and 8.0, so an out-of-range pH is rarely the cause
        > of
        > > > a stuck ferment in a normal ferment. A healthy ferment will have
        > some
        > > > pronounced pH swings in the process, and trying to interfere can be
        > > > unwise." from Making Fine Spirits by Zymurgy Bob, from The Amphora
        > > > Society.
        > > >
        > > > I'll admit to being very cautious in those statements, but I'll
        > > > essentially stick by them.
        > > >
        > > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
        > > > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
        > > >
        > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lostwilly929"
        > <lostwilly929@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > hey friends, I ran my first batch with a new 2.5 gal.
        > Alimbic...and
        > > > while it did smell pretty gnarley, it did burn and didn't leave a
        > soot
        > > > ring in the shot glass. Now knowing I have the soul of a shiner,
        > I'm
        > > > going over different recipes some have higher acidic ingredients
        > like
        > > > lemons. I was wondering if any of y'all knew what effects lower PH
        > > > (acidic) had or provide for.
        > > > >
        > > > > Willy
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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