Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Sugar, Water, Yeast....

Expand Messages
  • mav
    Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? The simple answer to your question is Raw sugar! The reason why is, Raw sugar has some molasses
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      "Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash?"

      The simple answer to your question is Raw sugar! The reason why is, Raw sugar has some molasses left in the sugar crystals! Molasses = extra trace elements for the yeast!


      Brown sugar is white sugar crystals with molasses added after, that's why it's more expensive.

      Cheers
      Marc


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ben M" <martrx8@...> wrote:
      >
      > Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango how some places call it icing sugar instead....
      >
      > also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%? all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon and eating it right from the bag! YUM!
      >
      > Thanks and happy distilling!
      >
    • John Brase
      To my way of thinking, for a simple sugar wash, the best sugar is the cheapest one you can find - usually a generic brand granulated beet sugar. 1.6 lb of
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        To my way of thinking, for a simple sugar wash, the "best" sugar is the cheapest one you can find - usually a generic brand granulated beet sugar.

        1.6 lb of sugar per 1 gallon of wash (8 lb. per 5 Gal.) will yield a potential 11.5% wash which is a good, yeast friendly ratio. Pushing the alcohol limit  stresses the yeast and can result in bad tasting product. In addition to sugar, water and yeast you will need some sort of yeast nutrient to keep them healthy and happy while they do their magic.

        On 2/9/2012 3:05 AM, Ben M wrote:
         

        Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango how some places call it icing sugar instead....

        also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%? all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon and eating it right from the bag! YUM!

        Thanks and happy distilling!


      • Bob Glicksman
        Table sugar, in whatever form is sucrose, a 12 cabon sugar. Sucrose is actually a combination of two 6 carbon sugars -- Dextrose and Glucose, I believe.
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Table sugar, in whatever form is sucrose, a 12 cabon sugar.  Sucrose is actually a combination of two 6 carbon sugars -- Dextrose and Glucose, I believe.  Ordinary yeast fermets 6 carbon sugars, but the yeast can separate the two 6 carbon sugars in sucrose.
           
          To the best of my knowledge all sugar that you buy is chemically the same, regardless of whether it came from cane or beets or whatever.  The difference is in how well it is ground, powdered sugar (bakers suger) being the finest grind.  In order to ferment the sugar, you need to dissolve it in water and the finer the grind, the faster and easier it is to dissolve.  If you have course ground sugar, cooking the sugar/water solution for a bit will help you to quickly dissolve it.  Fine ground sugar can probably make a nice syrip at room temp and not require too much stirring.
           
          So -- use whatever you can get, the cheapest.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ben M <martrx8@...>
          To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:00 am
          Subject: [new_distillers] Sugar, Water, Yeast....

           
          Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango how some places call it icing sugar instead....

          also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%? all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon and eating it right from the bag! YUM!

          Thanks and happy distilling!

        • tgfoitwoods
          Table sugar is indeed sucrose, a 12-carbon sugar, but the 2 component 6-carbon sugars are fructose, and that particular isomer (structure) of glucose that
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Table sugar is indeed sucrose, a 12-carbon sugar, but the 2 component 6-carbon sugars are fructose, and that particular isomer (structure) of glucose that rotates (in solution) a beam of polarized light to the right, and since the chemist's Latin for right-rotation is "dextro:, that glucose is also called D-glucose or dextrose. So dextrose is one form (and the only one that works in biology) of glucose, but both possible glucoses are not dextrose. To make it more confusing, fructose and glucose (and therefor dextrose) ALL have the same simplified formula, C6H12O6.

            Almost all of our commonly-purchased sugar (excluding real raw sugar) is highly-refined sucrose. In the US, at least,  molasses is added back into the sucrose o make brown sugar, and corn starch is added to very finely-divided sucrose to make powdered sugar, also called confectioners' sugar.

            I seem to remember from the old days in the Usenet group rec.foods.cooking that other countries have other names for powdered sugar, but maybe that's just a brain fart.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Table sugar, in whatever form is sucrose, a 12 cabon sugar. Sucrose is actually a combination of two 6 carbon sugars -- Dextrose and Glucose, I believe. Ordinary yeast fermets 6 carbon sugars, but the yeast can separate the two 6 carbon sugars in sucrose.
            >
            > To the best of my knowledge all sugar that you buy is chemically the same, regardless of whether it came from cane or beets or whatever. The difference is in how well it is ground, powdered sugar (bakers suger) being the finest grind. In order to ferment the sugar, you need to dissolve it in water and the finer the grind, the faster and easier it is to dissolve. If you have course ground sugar, cooking the sugar/water solution for a bit will help you to quickly dissolve it. Fine ground sugar can probably make a nice syrip at room temp and not require too much stirring.
            >
            > So -- use whatever you can get, the cheapest.
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Ben M martrx8@...
            > To: new_distillers new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:00 am
            > Subject: [new_distillers] Sugar, Water, Yeast....
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango how some places call it icing sugar instead....
            >
            > also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%? all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon and eating it right from the bag! YUM!
            >
            > Thanks and happy distilling!
            >
          • White Bear
            As a side note to what was already said: Bakers sugar or powdered sugar or confectioners sugar has corn starch added.  This sugar will thicken after a bit of
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              As a side note to what was already said: Bakers sugar or powdered sugar or confectioners sugar has corn starch added.  This sugar will thicken after a bit of cooking but not enough to make any difference if it is incorporated in a mash or wash.
              white Bear





              --- On Thu, 2/9/12, Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...> wrote:


              From: Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@...>
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Sugar, Water, Yeast....
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, February 9, 2012, 11:32 AM



               




              Table sugar, in whatever form is sucrose, a 12 cabon sugar.  Sucrose is actually a combination of two 6 carbon sugars -- Dextrose and Glucose, I believe.  Ordinary yeast fermets 6 carbon sugars, but the yeast can separate the two 6 carbon sugars in sucrose.
               
              To the best of my knowledge all sugar that you buy is chemically the same, regardless of whether it came from cane or beets or whatever.  The difference is in how well it is ground, powdered sugar (bakers suger) being the finest grind.  In order to ferment the sugar, you need to dissolve it in water and the finer the grind, the faster and easier it is to dissolve.  If you have course ground sugar, cooking the sugar/water solution for a bit will help you to quickly dissolve it.  Fine ground sugar can probably make a nice syrip at room temp and not require too much stirring.
               
              So -- use whatever you can get, the cheapest.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ben M <martrx8@...>
              To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:00 am
              Subject: [new_distillers] Sugar, Water, Yeast....


               



              Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango how some places call it icing sugar instead....

              also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%? all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon and eating it right from the bag! YUM!

              Thanks and happy distilling!
            • Ben M
              Thank You all for the answers! after reading all the different recipes for all the different styles of wash/mash for all the different types of drinks i guess
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank You all for the answers! after reading all the different recipes for all the different styles of wash/mash for all the different types of drinks i guess i was looking for something complicated in such a simple ingredient! besides a tad bit of molasses or corn starch to change the style, sugar is just sugar!

                so i'm going to try something new for me which i don't think has been talked about before. with the idea that some vodkas are made from potatoes, i was thinking of cutting some up and boiling them then taking them out and dissolving the sugar in the water to make a starchy sugar wash for the yeast to play in!

                Thank You All Again And Happy Distilling!



                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Table sugar is indeed sucrose, a 12-carbon sugar, but the 2 component
              • John Brase
                ... One medium to large potato. The ones going soft from the bottom of the bag are OK. Cut into pieces and put into a 2 Qt. saucepan, cover with water and boil
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  On 2/9/2012 3:14 PM, Ben M wrote:
                  > so i'm going to try something new for me which i don't think has been
                  > talked about before. with the idea that some vodkas are made from
                  > potatoes, i was thinking of cutting some up and boiling them then
                  > taking them out and dissolving the sugar in the water to make a
                  > starchy sugar wash for the yeast to play in!

                  One medium to large potato. The ones going soft from the bottom of the
                  bag are OK.
                  Cut into pieces and put into a 2 Qt. saucepan, cover with water and boil
                  till soft.
                  Mash with a hand masher till it is soupy.
                  Add the potato soup to your mash bucket along with the other ingredients
                  of your choice.

                  It won't add much in the way of flavor but will add something to the
                  "mouth feel" of your vodka.
                • geoff burrows
                  Hi Ben M, In order to ferment anything in our hobby you need sugar (usually in bags of standard 1 Kg. or 2lbs bags of refined sugar). The amount of sugar
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 10, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Hi Ben M,

                    In order to ferment anything in our hobby you need sugar (usually in bags of standard 1 Kg. or 2lbs bags of refined sugar). The amount of sugar wrapped up in the starch (starch is natures sugar which comes in many forms like that hotness in onions, cactus, chillies, and other starches like in corn generally all the cereals , birch sap, maple sap etc.).

                    In potatoes there isn't very much sugar in the starch of the potato but it is still there, small though it is but the spuds need to be heated to extract this starch. (Gas burner or electric hot plate) energy used in the extraction

                    Now in the days when this process was first discovered to get a usable wash extraction for drinkable alcohol .      

                         Apart from the big money earners like corn, barley or any of the cereals (which were good for sugar extraction) and which landlords kept a firm monitory grip on and there was none left over to make alcohol.  You did after all need to keep the peasants feed in Russia and Ireland so spuds were for us the poor down trodden huddled masses to eat but they left you fack all to get or make a decent drink.  Hence needs must and you’ll always find a way so spuds were used to make vodka or poteen, call it what you like from whatever country you come from

                    If you had large amounts of potatoes and enough starch-y wash taken off. You could get a reasonable usable low converted sugary wash which could be fermented into a low alcohol yield, we're talking in the low alcohol strength usually in the single figures, I'm thinking.

                    Then you have to distil this large watery alcohol wash and that's more energy in

                    The large amount of potatoes you need to boil up and the amount of wash taken from the spuds and the heat taken to distil this large amount of weak alcohol wash would be and is, counter productive for what you will get out in drinkable spirit.

                    That's why the potato vodka distillers start to take their product too early and leave the end cut too late in order to get maximum alcohol extraction from the low alcohol wash.

                    That's also why most of the cheaper vodkas taste like gut rot, and smell vaguely like nail polish and wet card board and generally leave you with a whacking head ache the following morning so by all means try it and if you come up with a cheap way to extract the potato starch tell us we all want to know because anybody can grow spuds  

                    Geoff

                     

                  • waljaco
                    From the evidence I have come across poitin was originally made from malted grain. When cheap treacle and sugar became available they turned to this, adding
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 10, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      From the evidence I have come across poitin was originally made from malted grain. When cheap treacle and sugar became available they turned to this, adding potatoes as a nutrient source - the mash recipe looks more like a country potato wine. Guinness Brewery took most of the malted barley!
                      The base of choice for vodka is grain. High starch potatoes are grown in Poland specially for a vodka which some find has great flavor. Malt is used to convert the potato starch. Potatoes have more water content than grain so the yield is not as good as from grain.
                      Starch is converted to glucose while sugar (sucrose) consists of glucose and fructose. This fructose component does not give a grain character. It is preferable then to use dextrose/glucose instead of sucrose for making a neutral vodka.
                      wal

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "geoff burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Ben M,
                      >
                      > In order to ferment anything in our hobby you need sugar (usually in bags of standard 1 Kg. or 2lbs bags of refined sugar). The amount of sugar wrapped up in the starch (starch is natures sugar which comes in many forms like that hotness in onions, cactus, chillies, and other starches like in corn generally all the cereals , birch sap, maple sap etc.).
                      >
                      > In potatoes there isn't very much sugar in the starch of the potato but it is still there, small though it is but the spuds need to be heated to extract this starch. (Gas burner or electric hot plate) energy used in the extraction
                      >
                      > Now in the days when this process was first discovered to get a usable wash extraction for drinkable alcohol .
                      >
                      > Apart from the big money earners like corn, barley or any of the cereals (which were good for sugar extraction) and which landlords kept a firm monitory grip on and there was none left over to make alcohol. You did after all need to keep the peasants feed in Russia and Ireland so spuds were for us the poor down trodden huddled masses to eat but they left you fack all to get or make a decent drink. Hence needs must and you'll always find a way so spuds were used to make vodka or poteen, call it what you like from whatever country you come from
                      >
                      > If you had large amounts of potatoes and enough starch-y wash taken off. You could get a reasonable usable low converted sugary wash which could be fermented into a low alcohol yield, we're talking in the low alcohol strength usually in the single figures, I'm thinking.
                      >
                      > Then you have to distil this large watery alcohol wash and that's more energy in
                      >
                      > The large amount of potatoes you need to boil up and the amount of wash taken from the spuds and the heat taken to distil this large amount of weak alcohol wash would be and is, counter productive for what you will get out in drinkable spirit.
                      >
                      > That's why the potato vodka distillers start to take their product too early and leave the end cut too late in order to get maximum alcohol extraction from the low alcohol wash.
                      >
                      > That's also why most of the cheaper vodkas taste like gut rot, and smell vaguely like nail polish and wet card board and generally leave you with a whacking head ache the following morning so by all means try it and if you come up with a cheap way to extract the potato starch tell us we all want to know because anybody can grow spuds
                      >
                      > Geoff
                      >
                    • Elm Brook
                      I always enjoy reading Geoff s posts - both for there knowledge and entertainment value. Thanks Geoff. Just one quick point however, maple sap and birch sap
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 10, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I always enjoy reading Geoff's posts - both for there knowledge and entertainment value. Thanks Geoff. Just one quick point however, maple sap and birch sap are about 98 percent water by weight.  Of the remaining 2 percent 98 percent of that is sucrose with the remaining 2 percent being amino acids and oligosaccharides. There's no starch in either sap what so ever. These facts explain why pure maple syrup is expensive.  
                        Regards All,
                        E
                      • geoff burrows
                        Hi Wal, I bow to superior researched knowledge. It s just my father-in law who used to make the poteen and he did say he used potatoes and Barley I just
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 10, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Wal,
                           I bow to superior researched knowledge.  It's just my father-in law who used to make the poteen and he did say he used potatoes and Barley I just assumed it was mainly potatoes that was used.  There I go again, going off half cocked without all the facts.  And without all the facts ya can't make informed decisions. 
                          I knew if I threw what I thought out there someone would make sure I was going to get it right.  Thanks Wal I sit here corrected
                          Geoff  
                        • Derek Hamlet
                          ... I ve probably missed a string of posts on this subject. Like many I grew up believing that vodka was made from fermenting potatoes. I understand really
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 10, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At 09:05 AM 2/10/2012, you wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >Hi Wal,
                            > I bow to superior researched knowledge. It's just my father-in
                            > law who used to make the poteen and he did say he used potatoes and
                            > Barley I just assumed it was mainly potatoes that was used. There
                            > I go again, going off half cocked without all the facts. And
                            > without all the facts ya can't make informed decisions.
                            >I knew if I threw what I thought out there someone would make sure I
                            >was going to get it right. Thanks Wal I sit here corrected

                            I've probably missed a string of posts on this subject. Like many I
                            grew up believing that vodka was made from fermenting potatoes.
                            I understand really poor people use potatoes 'cuz that's all they
                            could get. However, getting much alcohol out of potatoes without
                            enzymes to convert the starches is not going to provide a whole bunch
                            of success.
                            I operate with a very simple formula; if I want neutral alcohol I
                            just do a max alcohol sugar fermentation with the appropriate high
                            alcohol yeast and suitable nutrients.
                            If I want to try rum or whiskey or whatever than I follow a tried and
                            true recipe of which there are many and aim for about a 5% output to
                            run twice through a potstill. Once to grab everything, second run for
                            appropriate cuts.
                            Regrettably there is yet to be anything that turns a 6 month old home
                            distilled whisky into a 20 year old single malt or whatever. I may
                            not worry about the mortgage or where the next meal is coming from,
                            but neither do I choose to buy 20 year old whisky very often so I
                            work on making be the best I can make within the constraints of
                            equipment, skill and cost.


                            Derek
                            No matter how many Bibles he swears on,
                            when a dog tells you he's a vegetarian, he's lying !
                          • waljaco
                            He could have, as the recipes are not standardised. But this is the first reference to barley and potatoes (together) that I have seen. It seems indicates that
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 11, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              He could have, as the recipes are not standardised. But this is the first reference to barley and potatoes (together) that I have seen. It seems indicates that barley was more expensive at the time and needed to be supplemented to be more affordable for distilling. Generally the Irish ate potatoes and grew grain as a cash crop.
                              The extensive steppes of Russia and Ukraine are ideal for large grain growing. Mild flavored wheat is common but rye is not uncommon especially in Poland.
                              wal

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "geoff burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Wal,
                              > I bow to superior researched knowledge. It's just my father-in law who used to make the poteen and he did say he used potatoes and Barley I just assumed it was mainly potatoes that was used. There I go again, going off half cocked without all the facts. And without all the facts ya can't make informed decisions.
                              > I knew if I threw what I thought out there someone would make sure I was going to get it right. Thanks Wal I sit here corrected
                              > Geoff
                              >
                            • waljaco
                              Confectionery sugar is icing sugar in Australia (and possibly UK). Never was clear about glucose and dextrose. wal
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 11, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Confectionery sugar is icing sugar in Australia (and possibly UK).
                                Never was clear about glucose and dextrose.
                                wal

                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Table sugar is indeed sucrose, a 12-carbon sugar, but the 2 component
                                > 6-carbon sugars are fructose, and that particular isomer (structure) of
                                > glucose that rotates (in solution) a beam of polarized light to the
                                > right, and since the chemist's Latin for right-rotation is "dextro:,
                                > that glucose is also called D-glucose or dextrose. So dextrose is one
                                > form (and the only one that works in biology) of glucose, but both
                                > possible glucoses are not dextrose. To make it more confusing, fructose
                                > and glucose (and therefor dextrose) ALL have the same simplified
                                > formula, C6H12O6.
                                >
                                > Almost all of our commonly-purchased sugar (excluding real raw sugar) is
                                > highly-refined sucrose. In the US, at least, molasses is added back
                                > into the sucrose o make brown sugar, and corn starch is added to very
                                > finely-divided sucrose to make powdered sugar, also called
                                > confectioners' sugar.
                                >
                                > I seem to remember from the old days in the Usenet group
                                > rec.foods.cooking that other countries have other names for powdered
                                > sugar, but maybe that's just a brain fart.
                                >
                                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                                > <http://kelleybarts.com/MFS.html>
                                >
                                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bob Glicksman <bobg542492@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Table sugar, in whatever form is sucrose, a 12 cabon sugar. Sucrose
                                > is actually a combination of two 6 carbon sugars -- Dextrose and
                                > Glucose, I believe. Ordinary yeast fermets 6 carbon sugars, but the
                                > yeast can separate the two 6 carbon sugars in sucrose.
                                > >
                                > > To the best of my knowledge all sugar that you buy is chemically the
                                > same, regardless of whether it came from cane or beets or whatever. The
                                > difference is in how well it is ground, powdered sugar (bakers suger)
                                > being the finest grind. In order to ferment the sugar, you need to
                                > dissolve it in water and the finer the grind, the faster and easier it
                                > is to dissolve. If you have course ground sugar, cooking the
                                > sugar/water solution for a bit will help you to quickly dissolve it.
                                > Fine ground sugar can probably make a nice syrip at room temp and not
                                > require too much stirring.
                                > >
                                > > So -- use whatever you can get, the cheapest.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: Ben M martrx8@
                                > > To: new_distillers new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:00 am
                                > > Subject: [new_distillers] Sugar, Water, Yeast....
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Whats the best type of sugar to use for the simplest wash? Regular
                                > cane sugar, Powdered cane sugar, or Brown cane sugar? i havent found an
                                > answer yet in the 42,000 previous posts but it came close once with a
                                > question about powdered sugar then veered off to talk about the lango
                                > how some places call it icing sugar instead....
                                > >
                                > > also is it known (if there is a difference between the sugars and
                                > fermenting) which of the sugars used has what potential yield of abv%?
                                > all i've got so far is sugar, water, bakers yeast has a yield of 14%abv
                                > being that the yeast can only survive 14%max.... but i'm curious as to
                                > the difference between the sugars themselves like an example, regular
                                > cane sugar yields 10%abv while powdered cane sugar yields 12%abv.... i
                                > don't trust myself around brown sugar cause i end up grabbing a spoon
                                > and eating it right from the bag! YUM!
                                > >
                                > > Thanks and happy distilling!
                                > >
                                >
                              • geoff burrows
                                Hi Wal, This is a pretty objective and unbiased quote by a Jim Donnelly (of obvious Irish decent with a name like James Donnelly) from this BBC web link:-
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 12, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Hi Wal,

                                  This is a pretty objective and unbiased quote by a Jim Donnelly (of obvious Irish decent with a name like James Donnelly) from this BBC web link:-   http://tinyurl.com/3axaee   

                                   

                                  The Irish Famine

                                  By Jim Donnelly

                                       The Irish catastrophe

                                  The Great Famine in Ireland began as a natural catastrophe of extraordinary magnitude, but its effects were severely worsened by the actions and inactions of the Whig government, headed by Lord John Russell in the crucial years from 1846 to 1852.

                                  The Irish famine was proportionally more destructive of human life than...the famines of modern times.

                                  Altogether, about a million people in Ireland are reliably estimated to have died of starvation and epidemic disease between 1846 and 1851, and some two million emigrated in a period of a little more than a decade (1845-55). Comparison with other modern and contemporary famines establishes beyond any doubt that the Irish famine of the late 1840s, which killed nearly one-eighth of the entire population, was proportionally much more destructive of human life than the vast majority of famines in modern times.

                                  In most famines in the contemporary world, only a small fraction of the population of a given country or region is exposed to the dangers of death from starvation or infectious diseases, and then typically for only one or two seasons. But in the Irish famine of the late 1840s, successive blasts of potato blight - or to give it its proper name, the fungus Phytophthora infestans - robbed more than one-third of the population of their usual means of subsistence for four or five years in a row

                                  End of Quote

                                   

                                       This sort of dovetails neatly into what my father –in-law (who goes by the name of Sherlock)  was told from his grandfather and he lived as a boy during  and before “The Famine” time.  The grain before the Famine was in short supply because of the grain quota’s from England that had to be met.  So as you say Wal spuds (spuds are potatoes for those who are unfamiliar with the Irish name for them) they must have been supplemented to make the poteen and give a working man a good drink.  

                                       His grandfather said the winter of 1847 to 48 was the worst for his family in the Sligo countryside in the west of Ireland.  He also said that the potato crop for a lot of years just kept rotting and turning to mush in the fields. 

                                       My father –in--law pointed out to me the marks in the field when I first got married and you can still see even them in his home place even today were there are row after row of  indentations in the grass covered ground, potato drills 3 foot wide mounds where the drills had been on the side of the steep rocky boulder strewn hillside and were never dug out  because of the blight. (There is about 4 or 5 inches of stony top soil before hitting rock hard dry clay and how the hell the grew spuds in that is beyond me)

                                       He also did tell me of a family (the Casey’s) cooking grass and they stayed alive and a family of 6children (the Harrington’s) doing the same thing but they were not so lucky and they died.  Apparently they were found 3 generations and the family of 6 in the one room thatched house on the hilltop starved skin and bones sitting slumped over around the walls in various states of death. They had got so weak they just sat there and died that long cold damp winter   

                                       All the good arable land was taken over for grain production, and the all important “Grain Quota’s” (as his grandfather put it) had to be kept by the landlords for the absentee land owners in London.      

                                  They did after all need to keep their annual salaries coming in to support their extravagant London life style.

                                       But hey that was then this is now and my family survived as did my wife’s family (albeit that I know very little of how my own family survived) but they did cause I’m living proof  ya might say.  Mind you I do have a lot of very distant relatives in America, Canada and Australia.  I think some also went to South America as well.

                                  Well after that history lesson ho much further forward are we ? 

                                  Well people is people and if n’ they wants booze no government, religion, police state or law is gonna stop them so:-

                                  “Long Live the Alcohol Distillation Revival Revolution

                                  Geoff      

                                     

                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.