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Re: Newbe Questions

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  • geoff burrows
    Hi rhinodust, Ideally the temperatures in and out of the condenser should be as cold in and as cold out as you can get it. But that never happens it’s
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 7, 2012
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      Hi rhinodust,

      Ideally the temperatures in and out of the condenser should be as cold in and as cold out as you can get it.  But that never happens it’s usually tap (faucet) cold in and running it slow the out let should be a little bit warmer than look warm out.
    • Fredrick Lee
      Your input water technically just needs to be below the dew point for the vapor in your column. The colder it is, generally speaking, the better efficiency you
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 7, 2012
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        Your input water technically just needs to be below the dew point for the vapor in your column. The colder it is, generally speaking, the better efficiency you will experience.  Is your ground water warm? There are many ways to solve that problem, but it's not usually a concern. What's your temps?

        Also, copper bonding compound is usually more expensive and not as good as just using silver solder. Are you considering it because you don't want to solder?  It's pretty easy to do and you can practice on a couple of thirty cent fittings to get the concept right if you're worried about it. 

        On Feb 6, 2012, at 19:59, "rhinodust" <leeeep1@...> wrote:

         

        New to the group. Building my first valved reflux. Couldn't find answers to these in the search: How cold should my condensor water be? Has anyone had any experience with copper bonding agent? It's rated to 1000psi and up to 300C and non toxic. To get joints apart they must be heated with a torch. Package doesn't mention anything about resistance to solvents.
        Thanks

      • rhinodust
        Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I can see I will learn a lot from you guys. Thanks for reminding me about the dew point. I should have payed more attention in
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 7, 2012
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          Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I can see I will learn a lot from you guys. Thanks for reminding me about the dew point. I should have payed more attention in thermo dynamics class. I was originally going to use a DI water chiller but they cost too much. I have settled on a design using a small 1.5cu' fridge. I will run a copper coil inside a plastic container filled with water, place the container in the freezer section. I will use a mushy gasket on the door to exit the lines out of the fridge and up to the condensor. I live in CA so low ambient isn't a problem. I asked the question about the copper bonding glue because I had never seen it before and was wondering about off taste. I have very good soldering skills but I am a bit lazy and it seemed a faster. Most solder now days is lead free, is the cost of silver solder still justified? Maybe the lead free still has nasty's in it?

          -Thanks

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
          >
          > Your input water technically just needs to be below the dew point for the vapor in your column. The colder it is, generally speaking, the better efficiency you will experience. Is your ground water warm? There are many ways to solve that problem, but it's not usually a concern. What's your temps?
          >
          > Also, copper bonding compound is usually more expensive and not as good as just using silver solder. Are you considering it because you don't want to solder? It's pretty easy to do and you can practice on a couple of thirty cent fittings to get the concept right if you're worried about it.
          >
          > On Feb 6, 2012, at 19:59, "rhinodust" <leeeep1@...> wrote:
          >
          > > New to the group. Building my first valved reflux. Couldn't find answers to these in the search: How cold should my condensor water be? Has anyone had any experience with copper bonding agent? It's rated to 1000psi and up to 300C and non toxic. To get joints apart they must be heated with a torch. Package doesn't mention anything about resistance to solvents.
          > > Thanks
          > >
          > >
          >
        • geoff burrows
          Hi rhinodust, Lead free solder by it s very name (lead) is a soft metal solder join and as such a butt (end to side) join and isn t very strong. But if you
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 7, 2012
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            Hi rhinodust,
                 Lead free solder by it's very name (lead) is a soft metal solder join and as such a butt (end to side) join and isn't very strong.  But if you mechanically make each of your column joins (or any other pipe join for that matter) i.e. male to female and soft solder it up you will have a very good mechanical very strong and airtight join. 
                 But if you don't have that option and can't anchor your  column to the boiler mechanically with a flat surfaced bolt on pipe joiner (i.e. by bolting it in place with suitable kitchen store bought silicon sheet gasket in place) 
                 Then silver solder is a good strong metal to metal join even for butt joins as long as you give the join a good shoulder of silver solder to help try and make a good strong join     
                 Your question about using the copper bonding glue and the possibility of it giving off tastes is your call.  But I would go your inital thoughts and would be very dubious about it.  Perhaps boiling water is perfectaly safe but remember this stuff we are distilling is ethanol and a host of other nasty alcohols like nail polist remover (a low boiling alcohol that comes off in the early stages of distilling) and more. 
                 If you find out that ethanol is ok with this bonding glue, what about all the other alcohols leaching chemical nasties out of your copper bonding glue.  I would go with your gut felling on this one until it's proven otherwise (by men with lots of ltters after their name and 6 figure salery's) and give it a bye-bye and pardon my French get off your butt make a thing of beauty and use your soldering skills that can be handed on to future generations just to be sure you're on the safe side.  Just heard a couple of good jokes I think is worth sharing with everyone

            Warning? Scam alert!!!!!
            A company has been targeting and contacting Weight Watchers and Truck Drivers (that used to be my job) via text and e-mail asking them to donate their clothes to the starving in Africa.
            DON'T
            get drawn in by it

            DON'T fall for it

            Anyone who fits your clothes or mine for that matter

            Certainly aint frigging starving!!!!!!

             

            A 7 year old and a 4 year old are upstairs in their bedroom talking when the 7 year old says

            “You know what” 

             “I think it’s about time we started swearing”

            The 4 year old nods his head in approval so the 7 year old says

            “When we go downstairs for breakfast I’ll swear first then you swear after me ok”

            “OK” the 4 year old agrees with enthusiasm

            The mother walks into the kitchen and asks the 7 year old what he wants for breakfast

            “Oh shit mum, I don’t know, I suppose I’ll have some bloody Coco Pops”

            WHACK he flew out of his chair tumbled across the kitchen floor, got up and ran upstairs crying his eyes out.

            She looked at the 4 year old and asked him in a stern voice

            “And what do YOU want young man?”

            “I don’t know” he blubbers “but it won’t be f**king Coco Pops”

             
            Geoff 
          • rhinodust
            I agree with Geoff. Silver solder is not that expensive, provides a stronger joint and I won t have to worry about unknown solvent effects on the bonding glue.
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 8, 2012
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              I agree with Geoff. Silver solder is not that expensive, provides a stronger joint and I won't have to worry about unknown solvent effects on the bonding glue. It will also look much better so silver solder is now the plan. I plan to use a three bolt exhaust flange to connect the column to a inverted stainless bowl, that assembly will clamp to the keg. I am also thinking about changing the design from what I usually see in keg to column transition. Instead of going straight up from the keg, I want to come off the keg with a 45 deg elbow and extend it about 18" then another 45 into the column. I am thinking I might get better temp controll because the column won't be sitting directley above the heat source. Of course, I will have to add some type of support structure. Any opinions?

              Cheers

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "geoff burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi rhinodust,
              > Lead free solder by it's very name (lead) is a soft metal solder join and as such a butt (end to side) join and isn't very strong. But if you mechanically make each of your column joins (or any other pipe join for that matter) i.e. male to female and soft solder it up you will have a very good mechanical very strong and airtight join.
              > But if you don't have that option and can't anchor your column to the boiler mechanically with a flat surfaced bolt on pipe joiner (i.e. by bolting it in place with suitable kitchen store bought silicon sheet gasket in place)
              > Then silver solder is a good strong metal to metal join even for butt joins as long as you give the join a good shoulder of silver solder to help try and make a good strong join
              > Your question about using the copper bonding glue and the possibility of it giving off tastes is your call. But I would go your inital thoughts and would be very dubious about it. Perhaps boiling water is perfectaly safe but remember this stuff we are distilling is ethanol and a host of other nasty alcohols like nail polist remover (a low boiling alcohol that comes off in the early stages of distilling) and more.
              > If you find out that ethanol is ok with this bonding glue, what about all the other alcohols leaching chemical nasties out of your copper bonding glue. I would go with your gut felling on this one until it's proven otherwise (by men with lots of ltters after their name and 6 figure salery's) and give it a bye-bye and pardon my French get off your butt make a thing of beauty and use your soldering skills that can be handed on to future generations just to be sure you're on the safe side. Just heard a couple of good jokes I think is worth sharing with everyone
              > Warning? Scam alert!!!!!
              > A company has been targeting and contacting Weight Watchers and Truck Drivers (that used to be my job) via text and e-mail asking them to donate their clothes to the starving in Africa.
              > DON'T get drawn in by it
              >
              > DON'T fall for it
              >
              > Anyone who fits your clothes or mine for that matter
              >
              > Certainly aint frigging starving!!!!!!
              >
              >
              >
              > A 7 year old and a 4 year old are upstairs in their bedroom talking when the 7 year old says
              >
              > "You know what"
              >
              > "I think it's about time we started swearing"
              >
              > The 4 year old nods his head in approval so the 7 year old says
              >
              > "When we go downstairs for breakfast I'll swear first then you swear after me ok"
              >
              > "OK" the 4 year old agrees with enthusiasm
              >
              > The mother walks into the kitchen and asks the 7 year old what he wants for breakfast
              >
              > "Oh shit mum, I don't know, I suppose I'll have some bloody Coco Pops"
              >
              > WHACK he flew out of his chair tumbled across the kitchen floor, got up and ran upstairs crying his eyes out.
              >
              > She looked at the 4 year old and asked him in a stern voice
              >
              > "And what do YOU want young man?"
              >
              > "I don't know" he blubbers "but it won't be f**king Coco Pops"
              >
              >
              > Geoff
              >
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