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best still / column type

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  • randycooley1229
    I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 11, 2011
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      I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question

      Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.

      My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
    • Tyrell Hicks
      I saw your post, I am also new and I ve been doing some research. I have many of the same questions. If u find some good answers related to the reflux column,
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 12, 2011
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        I saw your post, I am also new and I've been doing some research. I have many of the same questions. If u find some good answers related to the reflux column, please share the info with me.

      • Bob Glicksman
        I would look closely at the stills available for sale on the Amphora Society webite (http://www.amphora-society.com/). They have several VM stills, all based
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 12, 2011
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          I would look closely at the stills available for sale on the Amphora Society webite (http://www.amphora-society.com/).  They have several VM stills, all based upon the book "The Compleat Distiller" by Nixon and McCaw.  The book is also available on the Amphora Society website and, IMHO, is a must read for a new distiller.  Mike Nixon KNOWS distillation and I would put a lot of faith into his design elements.  I don't have personal experience with these stills, but they apear to be very high quality.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: randycooley1229 <randycooley1229@...>
          To: new_distillers <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 12:06 am
          Subject: [new_distillers] best still / column type

           
          I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question

          Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.

          My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.

        • tgfoitwoods
          Randy, If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I d humbly suggest that
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 12, 2011
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            Randy,

            If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I'd humbly suggest that you don't build any kind of a column at all. Although it's possible to "cripple" your reflux column so that it works partly as a potstill to get flavored spirits, that always seemed to me like buying a Ferrari and pulling off half of the sparkplug wires so it's easier to drive in the supermarket parking lot.

            I would suggest you build  a potstill with a detachable head. You will make great richly-flavored liquor, and if you need neutral, a clean sucrose ferment (like the MUM or JEM washes) and triple-distillation, with bicarb in the last two, will give you a great neutral, or sortavodka.

            My sig line in Artisan Distillers states my opinion best:
            You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
            and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...


            If you ever decide that you desperately need a column still, you can build one to snap on your boiler in place of the potstill head.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" <randycooley1229@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
            >
            > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
            >
            > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
            >
          • Brendan Keith
            For flavoured spirits, I built an extra Bokakob or EL column but only about 1 foot tall and without packing. That way it fits into my boiler keg the same as
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 12, 2011
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              Message
              For flavoured spirits, I built an extra Bokakob or EL column but only about 1 foot tall and without packing.  That way it fits into my boiler keg the same as my regular Bokakob colum and I get to use the same condensor coil.
               

              --

              Brendan Keith

              bkeith@...

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
              Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 3:09 PM
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type

               

              Randy,

              If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I'd humbly suggest that you don't build any kind of a column at all. Although it's possible to "cripple" your reflux column so that it works partly as a potstill to get flavored spirits, that always seemed to me like buying a Ferrari and pulling off half of the sparkplug wires so it's easier to drive in the supermarket parking lot.

              I would suggest you build  a potstill with a detachable head. You will make great richly-flavored liquor, and if you need neutral, a clean sucrose ferment (like the MUM or JEM washes) and triple-distillation, with bicarb in the last two, will give you a great neutral, or sortavodka.

              My sig line in Artisan Distillers states my opinion best:
              You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
              and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...


              If you ever decide that you desperately need a column still, you can build one to snap on your boiler in place of the potstill head.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" <randycooley1229@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
              >
              > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
              >
              > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
              >

            • M L
              Reflux columns are for making a really pure flavorless alcohol. I, for the lack of money to spend on materials, have opted to build a thumper, or doubler I
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 4, 2012
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                Reflux columns are for making a really pure flavorless alcohol. I, for the lack of money to spend on materials, have opted to build a thumper, or
                " doubler"I used a 1 gal glass jar , two holes in the lid , tube from boiling pot to the jar, that tube goes nearly to the bottom.Ii put some of my mash in it . Then the out tube goes to the worm. And WOW, the end product was 140 proof and as clear as water. It took 2 hrs. to start putting out. I would pre-heat the mash in the jar next time to speed things up. But overall a cheap and easy way to improve your system .Mark

                --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Tyrell Hicks <hick7761@...> wrote:

                From: Tyrell Hicks <hick7761@...>
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 6:15 AM

                 

                I saw your post, I am also new and I've been doing some research. I have many of the same questions. If u find some good answers related to the reflux column, please share the info with me.

              • M L
                Hey ZB, Whats a MUM and JEM wash. And what is the bicarb for? Mark L. ... From: tgfoitwoods Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still /
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 14, 2012
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                  Hey ZB, Whats a MUM and JEM wash. And what is the bicarb for? Mark L.

                  --- On Mon, 12/12/11, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:

                  From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 12:08 PM

                   

                  Randy,

                  If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I'd humbly suggest that you don't build any kind of a column at all. Although it's possible to "cripple" your reflux column so that it works partly as a potstill to get flavored spirits, that always seemed to me like buying a Ferrari and pulling off half of the sparkplug wires so it's easier to drive in the supermarket parking lot.

                  I would suggest you build  a potstill with a detachable head. You will make great richly-flavored liquor, and if you need neutral, a clean sucrose ferment (like the MUM or JEM washes) and triple-distillation, with bicarb in the last two, will give you a great neutral, or sortavodka.

                  My sig line in Artisan Distillers states my opinion best:
                  You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
                  and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...


                  If you ever decide that you desperately need a column still, you can build one to snap on your boiler in place of the potstill head.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" <randycooley1229@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
                  >
                  > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
                  >
                  > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
                  >

                • tgfoitwoods
                  Hey, ML, The MUM wash, from Mason Jar Dixon (it stands for Mason s Universal Mash, I think) http://tinyurl.com/7n8aq3n is an exercise in making yeast as happy
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 14, 2012
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                    Hey, ML,

                    The MUM wash, from Mason Jar Dixon (it stands for Mason's Universal Mash, I think) http://tinyurl.com/7n8aq3n is an exercise in making yeast as happy as possible in a sugar wash, under the assumption that happy yeast, having a happy ending, makes a happy fermentation producing good-tasting wash that produces sweet clean sortavodka that doesn't require extreme measures to make it palatable. It accomplishes this by starting with less sugar than the yeast can eat gracefully, and nourishing the yeast well with fertilizer!! (Miracle-Gro plant food) and tomato paste, in the main.

                    Proof of Mason's thesis comes from simply smelling the fermentation in progress. It smells radiantly, aromatically, happy, and tastes the same way. Fertilizer or no, Mason had friends come over while he was gone and drink his wonderful "green wine", and ask what it was. I've done some large MUM washes, and will never give it up. Except maybe for the JEM wash.

                    While we were all happy with the MUM wash as an exercise in a happy ferment, Jameson Beam chanced to read the label on a can of some energy drink, and the contents, he thought, sounded like pure yeast tonic, so he tried adding a can to his sugar wash, and after some experimenting and tuning, he gave us the JEM (Jim's Energy drink Miracle-gro) wash. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/37618

                    I've not had a chance to try it, because my last MUM wash gave me enough "neutral" to experiment with for years (~10 gallons!), but everyone who has claims it's a step beyond teh MUM wash. Oh, and here's a comparison of contents of the various energy drinks. http://tinyurl.com/7bbsqkt

                    As for the when and why of bicarb, because it tries to remove all flavor from the wash, and therefore the distillate, by suppressing (and reversing) ester formation, do not use it on that richly-flavored brandy or whiskey you've been working on; it will try to reduce it to flavorless vodka. If, on the other  hand, you have only low wines for second or third distillation that you want to clean up for vodka, and only in this case, you can use the bicarb in the wash. Bicarb in the first distillation, most especially with high-nitrogen turbo yeasts, is likely to get you Schweitzer's reagent, a copper-ammonium complex I call the blue ookies, in your distillate.

                    Again, if you want any flavor, do not use bicarb.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey ZB, Whats a MUM and JEM wash. And what is the bicarb for? Mark L.
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 12/12/11, tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@... wrote:
                    >
                    > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 12:08 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Randy,
                    >
                    > If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I'd humbly suggest that you don't build any kind of a column at all. Although it's possible to "cripple" your reflux column so that it works partly as a potstill to get flavored spirits, that always seemed to me like buying a Ferrari and pulling off half of the sparkplug wires so it's easier to drive in the supermarket parking lot.
                    >
                    > I would suggest you build  a potstill with a detachable head. You will make great richly-flavored liquor, and if you need neutral, a clean sucrose ferment (like the MUM or JEM washes) and triple-distillation, with bicarb in the last two, will give you a great neutral, or sortavodka.
                    >
                    > My sig line in Artisan Distillers states my opinion best:
                    > You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
                    > and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...
                    >
                    > If you ever decide that you desperately need a column still, you can build one to snap on your boiler in place of the potstill head.
                    >
                    > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" randycooley1229@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
                    > >
                    > > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
                    > >
                    > > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
                    > >
                    >
                  • M L
                    Are you pulling my leg? Really?  Miracle Grow plant food in your mash?I never heard of such a thing. But then I ve been learning a LOT of things I never heard
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 14, 2012
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                      Are you pulling my leg? Really?  Miracle Grow plant food in your mash?I never heard of such a thing. But then I've been learning a LOT of things I never heard of lately .And tomato paste ? What does that do ? How mush of it do you use ?Mark L.

                      --- On Sat, 1/14/12, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:

                      From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 4:47 PM

                       

                      Hey, ML,

                      The MUM wash, from Mason Jar Dixon (it stands for Mason's Universal Mash, I think) http://tinyurl.com/7n8aq3n is an exercise in making yeast as happy as possible in a sugar wash, under the assumption that happy yeast, having a happy ending, makes a happy fermentation producing good-tasting wash that produces sweet clean sortavodka that doesn't require extreme measures to make it palatable. It accomplishes this by starting with less sugar than the yeast can eat gracefully, and nourishing the yeast well with fertilizer!! (Miracle-Gro plant food) and tomato paste, in the main.

                      Proof of Mason's thesis comes from simply smelling the fermentation in progress. It smells radiantly, aromatically, happy, and tastes the same way. Fertilizer or no, Mason had friends come over while he was gone and drink his wonderful "green wine", and ask what it was. I've done some large MUM washes, and will never give it up. Except maybe for the JEM wash.

                      While we were all happy with the MUM wash as an exercise in a happy ferment, Jameson Beam chanced to read the label on a can of some energy drink, and the contents, he thought, sounded like pure yeast tonic, so he tried adding a can to his sugar wash, and after some experimenting and tuning, he gave us the JEM (Jim's Energy drink Miracle-gro) wash. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/37618

                      I've not had a chance to try it, because my last MUM wash gave me enough "neutral" to experiment with for years (~10 gallons!), but everyone who has claims it's a step beyond teh MUM wash. Oh, and here's a comparison of contents of the various energy drinks. http://tinyurl.com/7bbsqkt

                      As for the when and why of bicarb, because it tries to remove all flavor from the wash, and therefore the distillate, by suppressing (and reversing) ester formation, do not use it on that richly-flavored brandy or whiskey you've been working on; it will try to reduce it to flavorless vodka. If, on the other  hand, you have only low wines for second or third distillation that you want to clean up for vodka, and only in this case, you can use the bicarb in the wash. Bicarb in the first distillation, most especially with high-nitrogen turbo yeasts, is likely to get you Schweitzer's reagent, a copper-ammonium complex I call the blue ookies, in your distillate.

                      Again, if you want any flavor, do not use bicarb.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hey ZB, Whats a MUM and JEM wash. And what is the bicarb for? Mark L.
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 12/12/11, tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@... wrote:
                      >
                      > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                      > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                      > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 12:08 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Randy,
                      >
                      > If I read you correctly that you want to make mostly naturally-flavored spirits, with the occasional run of neutral for vodka, I'd humbly suggest that you don't build any kind of a column at all. Although it's possible to "cripple" your reflux column so that it works partly as a potstill to get flavored spirits, that always seemed to me like buying a Ferrari and pulling off half of the sparkplug wires so it's easier to drive in the supermarket parking lot.
                      >
                      > I would suggest you build  a potstill with a detachable head. You will make great richly-flavored liquor, and if you need neutral, a clean sucrose ferment (like the MUM or JEM washes) and triple-distillation, with bicarb in the last two, will give you a great neutral, or sortavodka.
                      >
                      > My sig line in Artisan Distillers states my opinion best:
                      > You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
                      > and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...
                      >
                      > If you ever decide that you desperately need a column still, you can build one to snap on your boiler in place of the potstill head.
                      >
                      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" randycooley1229@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
                      > >
                      > > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
                      > >
                      > > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
                      > >
                      >

                    • geoff burrows
                      Hi ML, When you make wine you sometimes add a Wine Nutrient. That’s basically chemicals to make yeast happy while they do their job of making ethanol for
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
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                        Hi ML,

                        When you make wine you sometimes add a Wine Nutrient.  That’s basically chemicals to make yeast happy while they do their job of making ethanol for us.

                        Now couple Tomato paste and Miracle Gro and Multivitamins together and you have the same basic chemical make up of the Yeast Nutrients.  That’s the way I understand it.

                        Geoff

                      • mav
                        Hi ML/kekedog13, Get for real mate, all this info has been talked about before! Why don t you look for it your self? Just use the search engine!!
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi ML/kekedog13,

                          Get for real mate, all this info has been talked about before! Why don't you look for it your self? Just use the search engine!!

                          http://tinyurl.com/6wawn5o


                          Best Luck mate, just saying most question have been asked before, have a look/read before asking questions. But please ask questions if you don't get it, or don't get the answers you are looking for:)

                          Cheers
                          mav



                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Are you pulling my leg? Really?  Miracle Grow plant food in your mash?I never heard of such a thing. But then I've been learning a LOT of things I never heard of lately .And tomato paste ? What does that do ? How mush of it do you use ?Mark L.
                          >
                        • M L
                          I wonder if yeast nutrient would  do the same thing as adding Red Bull, or tomato paste. ML ... From: geoff burrows Subject: Re:
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I wonder if yeast nutrient would  do the same thing as adding Red Bull, or tomato paste. ML

                            --- On Sun, 1/15/12, geoff burrows <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:

                            From: geoff burrows <jeffrey.burrows@...>
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 12:51 AM

                             

                            Hi ML,

                            When you make wine you sometimes add a Wine Nutrient.  That’s basically chemicals to make yeast happy while they do their job of making ethanol for us.

                            Now couple Tomato paste and Miracle Gro and Multivitamins together and you have the same basic chemical make up of the Yeast Nutrients.  That’s the way I understand it.

                            Geoff

                          • M L
                            Well you know what mavnkaf ? It would be nearly impossible to ask a question that has NEVER been asked before. And it would be impossible to discuss a topic
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
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                              Well you know what mavnkaf ? It would be nearly impossible to ask a question that has NEVER been asked before. And it would be impossible to discuss a topic that has never been discussed before. So pardon my ignorance. ML
                              --- On Sun, 1/15/12, mav <mavnkaf@...> wrote:

                              From: mav <mavnkaf@...>
                              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 4:51 AM

                               



                              Hi ML/kekedog13,

                              Get for real mate, all this info has been talked about before! Why don't you look for it your self? Just use the search engine!!

                              http://tinyurl.com/6wawn5o

                              Best Luck mate, just saying most question have been asked before, have a look/read before asking questions. But please ask questions if you don't get it, or don't get the answers you are looking for:)

                              Cheers
                              mav

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M L <kekedog13@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Are you pulling my leg? Really?  Miracle Grow plant food in your mash?I never heard of such a thing. But then I've been learning a LOT of things I never heard of lately .And tomato paste ? What does that do ? How mush of it do you use ?Mark L.
                              >

                            • Derek Hamlet
                              ... I really cannot comment on whether wine nutrients are suitable for making hooch. However, it s a tad expensive way to go imho. When talking about GEMS and
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At 05:24 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >I wonder if yeast nutrient would do the same thing as adding Red
                                >Bull, or tomato paste. ML
                                >
                                >
                                >When you make wine you sometimes add a Wine Nutrient.

                                I really cannot comment on whether wine nutrients are suitable for
                                making hooch. However, it's a tad expensive way to go imho.
                                When talking about GEMS and othe washes that are destined for
                                producing neutral alcohol, we are interested in a product with very
                                few flavors at the end of distillation.
                                The opposite is the case with wine.
                                Some folks simply crush the grapes or open the juice and let mother
                                nature's natural yeasts do the job.
                                Interesting, and terribly adventurous. There is a reason why
                                vintners and scientists have collaborated on making yeasts and
                                nutrients of various kinds to enhance not only the fermentation, but
                                also the extraction of various flavors and colours in the resulting
                                wine. Different yeasts bring out different flavours in the same
                                grape which is why many wine makers separate their crushed grapes
                                into lots which are then fermented with different grapes and the
                                resulting wines mixed to achieve particular tastes.
                                Likewise, different additives have different effects. Some may speed
                                up fermentation, some add nitrogens or other things depending on the
                                chemistry of the must before fermentation.
                                What, I believe our goal is to get a distilable product with the most
                                alcohol and fewest flavours. For this reason, I spend the least
                                amount of money to produce what I am going to distil.
                                If we are after something else, we'd be using various other
                                methodologies to make our must including fairly low alcohol content.
                                Just my $.02 worth.
                                When I make wine which I have been doing for over 40 years, I spend
                                considerable money on the grapes, the yeasts, additives and a great
                                deal of time and attention to things like cleanliness, chemistry,
                                temperature etc. The day the grapes arrive is simply a tiny window on
                                a process that has a turning point, following hard work, of putting
                                the cork in the bottle. A year later one gets the chance to see how
                                that wine's journey will progress. Last night I opened a bottle of
                                12 year old Merlot. I've tasted a bottle here and there over the
                                those 12 years and it keeps getting a little better and more complex each year.


                                Derek
                                I've traveled a long way
                                And some of the roads weren't paved
                              • M L
                                Thanks Derek, Good info. ML ... From: Derek Hamlet Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type To:
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks Derek, Good info. ML

                                  --- On Sun, 1/15/12, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> wrote:

                                  From: Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 5:42 PM

                                   

                                  At 05:24 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >I wonder if yeast nutrient would do the same thing as adding Red
                                  >Bull, or tomato paste. ML
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >When you make wine you sometimes add a Wine Nutrient.

                                  I really cannot comment on whether wine nutrients are suitable for
                                  making hooch. However, it's a tad expensive way to go imho.
                                  When talking about GEMS and othe washes that are destined for
                                  producing neutral alcohol, we are interested in a product with very
                                  few flavors at the end of distillation.
                                  The opposite is the case with wine.
                                  Some folks simply crush the grapes or open the juice and let mother
                                  nature's natural yeasts do the job.
                                  Interesting, and terribly adventurous. There is a reason why
                                  vintners and scientists have collaborated on making yeasts and
                                  nutrients of various kinds to enhance not only the fermentation, but
                                  also the extraction of various flavors and colours in the resulting
                                  wine. Different yeasts bring out different flavours in the same
                                  grape which is why many wine makers separate their crushed grapes
                                  into lots which are then fermented with different grapes and the
                                  resulting wines mixed to achieve particular tastes.
                                  Likewise, different additives have different effects. Some may speed
                                  up fermentation, some add nitrogens or other things depending on the
                                  chemistry of the must before fermentation.
                                  What, I believe our goal is to get a distilable product with the most
                                  alcohol and fewest flavours. For this reason, I spend the least
                                  amount of money to produce what I am going to distil.
                                  If we are after something else, we'd be using various other
                                  methodologies to make our must including fairly low alcohol content.
                                  Just my $.02 worth.
                                  When I make wine which I have been doing for over 40 years, I spend
                                  considerable money on the grapes, the yeasts, additives and a great
                                  deal of time and attention to things like cleanliness, chemistry,
                                  temperature etc. The day the grapes arrive is simply a tiny window on
                                  a process that has a turning point, following hard work, of putting
                                  the cork in the bottle. A year later one gets the chance to see how
                                  that wine's journey will progress. Last night I opened a bottle of
                                  12 year old Merlot. I've tasted a bottle here and there over the
                                  those 12 years and it keeps getting a little better and more complex each year.

                                  Derek
                                  I've traveled a long way
                                  And some of the roads weren't paved

                                • geoff burrows
                                  Hi ML, I think the whole point of Mason making this MUM recipe was to prove that good drinking alcohol could be made from reasonably cheap ingredients found in
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 15, 2012
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                                    Hi ML,
                                    I think the whole point of Mason making this MUM recipe was to prove that good drinking alcohol could be made from reasonably cheap ingredients found in a normal western style supermarkets, we were the ones that tested his findings.  From feed-back from us lot Mason was able to tweak his recipe and Jamesonbeam came up with this alternative a JEM Wash making somethiing that was really good (the MUM) into something better
                                     (similar but very different)

                                    Below is a quote taken from Jameson’s original forum message (message number 37618) in The New Distillers forum Forum

                                    A quick bit of reasoning about Yeast and "Miracle Gro":-

                                    Yeast a a strange beastie in the world of plants and animals they occupy that grey area between being animal and being vegetable. And being really aggressive opportunists, to survive they will consume whatever suitable food that's on offer from both animal and vegetable kingdoms and given the chance will cannibalize their dead alcohol poisoned comradeson the floor of your fermenter (hence the bad off flavours in some washes.)  But being primarily evolved from plants they will make much more pleasant ethanol from a generous supply of plant food (hence the use of "Miracle Gro" and the green wash).  Some people are gob smacked when you suggest using  "Miracle Gro" and think I'm going to poisn myself. 

                                    But stop and think about it. If you own a Veggy garden plot with nicely growing young lettuce you wouldn't think twice about feeding them with  "Miracle Gro" to make bigger more succulent leaves and serving them up to you family.  So why would you hesitate using it as an ingredient to make ethanol?       

                                     

                                    JEM  Recipe

                                     (Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash - or JEM for short)

                                    Jamesonbeam Quote start:-

                                    Ok enough theory. Now on to the recipe.... Since this can no longer be considered a derivation of a MUM wash due to the "Universal Part" lost from the EC-1118 instead of bakers yeast, (the only orginal ingredient is Plant food), I guess its "Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash - or JEM wash for short (love those 3 letter abrivations like "MUM" and "ATF" lol)...

                                    Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash Recipe (JEM)

                                    (makes a 20 liter/5 gallon 16% ABV wash)

                                    - 2 packets Lalvin EC-1118 yeast (5 grams each)

                                    - 12 lbs. white cane sugar (inverted - see above instructions) If you want to go to 18% ABV add another 2 lbs. inverted sugar after a day of fermentation.

                                    -2 tablespoons 24-8-16 water soluble Miracle-gro or Peters plant food (Peters is cheaper in some areas and both contain exact same ingredients)

                                    - 1 can Energy Drink of your choice (Rock Star Roasted Vanilla or Red Bull suggested)

                                    __________________________________

                                    1. Invert sugar per above instructions and let cool to 90F (syrup may be stored in refrigerator till used).

                                    2. Add Plant Food and Energy Drink and stir.

                                    3. Top off with water to make 5 gallons of wash.

                                    4. For first fermentation, pitch 2 packets of EC-1118. For future fermentations, store the trub in fridge and just repitch that.

                                    ______________________________

                                    Sorry if this recipe is so complex;). If you want to test it, try fermenting a batcfh of MUM with bakers yeast side by side with this recipe and see if you can tell any differences. Also let me know if you think of any changes or improvements.

                                    Note: This is also very easily adaptable to making rums, brandies and cornflake mashes or the UJSSM method.

                                    Enjoy.....

                                    Vino es Veritas,

                                    Jim aka Waldo.

                                    Quote end

                                     

                                  • M L
                                    Hey I was reading some old e-mails about JEM and MUM washes. I was wondering if you would use Miracle Grow ,Vitamins, Tomato paste and such when making a wash
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 10, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hey I was reading some old e-mails about JEM and MUM washes. I was wondering if you would use Miracle Grow ,Vitamins, Tomato paste and such when making a wash using corn syrup.I tried an energy drink wash once and it stalled out (stopped fermenting) I re-ptched yeast and it would not re-start, I didn't use Red Bull or Rock Star as instructed, had to go with a more economical (cheap) brand.Any ways, seems like corn syrup would need some help with something to make the yeast happy. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks ML

                                      --- On Sun, 1/15/12, geoff burrows <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:

                                      From: geoff burrows <jeffrey.burrows@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type
                                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 11:22 PM

                                       

                                      Hi ML,
                                      I think the whole point of Mason making this MUM recipe was to prove that good drinking alcohol could be made from reasonably cheap ingredients found in a normal western style supermarkets, we were the ones that tested his findings.  From feed-back from us lot Mason was able to tweak his recipe and Jamesonbeam came up with this alternative a JEM Wash making somethiing that was really good (the MUM) into something better
                                       (similar but very different)

                                      Below is a quote taken from Jameson’s original forum message (message number 37618) in The New Distillers forum Forum

                                      A quick bit of reasoning about Yeast and "Miracle Gro":-

                                      Yeast a a strange beastie in the world of plants and animals they occupy that grey area between being animal and being vegetable. And being really aggressive opportunists, to survive they will consume whatever suitable food that's on offer from both animal and vegetable kingdoms and given the chance will cannibalize their dead alcohol poisoned comradeson the floor of your fermenter (hence the bad off flavours in some washes.)  But being primarily evolved from plants they will make much more pleasant ethanol from a generous supply of plant food (hence the use of "Miracle Gro" and the green wash).  Some people are gob smacked when you suggest using  "Miracle Gro" and think I'm going to poisn myself. 

                                      But stop and think about it. If you own a Veggy garden plot with nicely growing young lettuce you wouldn't think twice about feeding them with  "Miracle Gro" to make bigger more succulent leaves and serving them up to you family.  So why would you hesitate using it as an ingredient to make ethanol?       

                                       

                                      JEM  Recipe

                                       (Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash - or JEM for short)

                                      Jamesonbeam Quote start:-

                                      Ok enough theory. Now on to the recipe.... Since this can no longer be considered a derivation of a MUM wash due to the "Universal Part" lost from the EC-1118 instead of bakers yeast, (the only orginal ingredient is Plant food), I guess its "Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash - or JEM wash for short (love those 3 letter abrivations like "MUM" and "ATF" lol)...

                                      Jim's Energy Miracle-gro Wash Recipe (JEM)

                                      (makes a 20 liter/5 gallon 16% ABV wash)

                                      - 2 packets Lalvin EC-1118 yeast (5 grams each)

                                      - 12 lbs. white cane sugar (inverted - see above instructions) If you want to go to 18% ABV add another 2 lbs. inverted sugar after a day of fermentation.

                                      -2 tablespoons 24-8-16 water soluble Miracle-gro or Peters plant food (Peters is cheaper in some areas and both contain exact same ingredients)

                                      - 1 can Energy Drink of your choice (Rock Star Roasted Vanilla or Red Bull suggested)

                                      __________________________________

                                      1. Invert sugar per above instructions and let cool to 90F (syrup may be stored in refrigerator till used).

                                      2. Add Plant Food and Energy Drink and stir.

                                      3. Top off with water to make 5 gallons of wash.

                                      4. For first fermentation, pitch 2 packets of EC-1118. For future fermentations, store the trub in fridge and just repitch that.

                                      ______________________________

                                      Sorry if this recipe is so complex;). If you want to test it, try fermenting a batcfh of MUM with bakers yeast side by side with this recipe and see if you can tell any differences. Also let me know if you think of any changes or improvements.

                                      Note: This is also very easily adaptable to making rums, brandies and cornflake mashes or the UJSSM method.

                                      Enjoy.....

                                      Vino es Veritas,

                                      Jim aka Waldo.

                                      Quote end

                                       

                                    • roguerider01
                                      ... check out mile hi distilling in america... http://www.milehidistilling.com/ i brought mine from there and its going well for a first time go i got 3/4 full
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 13, 2012
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                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" <randycooley1229@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
                                        >
                                        > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
                                        >



                                        check out mile hi distilling in america...
                                        http://www.milehidistilling.com/
                                        i brought mine from there and its going well for a first time go i got 3/4 full bottle of 75% clear corn whiskey
                                        > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
                                        >
                                      • RALPH JOHNSON
                                        I favour brewhaus I have been using mine for reflux and pot use for more than 5years ,rock solid.just routine maintenance and a couple of spare cooling
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 13, 2012
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                                          I favour "brewhaus" I have been using mine for reflux and pot use for more than 5years ,rock solid.just routine maintenance and a couple of spare cooling pumps.

                                          From: roguerider01 <roguerider01@...>
                                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, 13 August 2012, 10:30
                                          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: best still / column type

                                           


                                          --- In mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "randycooley1229" <randycooley1229@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I am new to the group and and have little knowledge of the appropriate column to make and or purchase. Had thought i was going to build a reflux from plans on moon-still.com but having read through posts here thougt i might ask for some help. I am now not sure what direction to go in. I am assuming i will want to utilize a VM style regardless having read through articles here. so my question
                                          >
                                          > Is there a column type that would be better than another since the majority of what i want to produce would be more along the lines of flavored spirits? Maybe on an occasion would utilize it to produce a clear to cut and flavor. Any suggestions and links to plans and or sites that may have reasonably priced columns that would be appropriate for my intended use would be very much appreciated. I already have a keg to use if that information is useful in making any suggestions. Thank you in advance for any assistance.
                                          >

                                          check out mile hi distilling in america...
                                          http://www.milehidistilling.com/
                                          i brought mine from there and its going well for a first time go i got 3/4 full bottle of 75% clear corn whiskey
                                          > My apologies if i somehow missed this topic in previous posts.
                                          >



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