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RE: [new_distillers] Re: Strange Readings

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  • Tom Cowdrey
    Bob, Thanks for the explanation. That helps a lot, however how is one supposed to know what abv wash he is starting with when it goes in the still? I must be
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 10, 2011

      Bob,

      Thanks for the explanation.  That helps a lot, however how is one supposed to know what abv wash he is starting with when it goes in the still?  I must be missing something.

       

      The SG reading was the beginning SG – I put that in case it would help the original issue about the 0% abv.   OK, I still have a problem to solve, 1) So far I have only run sugar washes and the best I can get is 75% abv – it does not matter if I run it as a pot or a reflux, I still get the max of 70/75%.  I might be happy with that if it had no smell and did not bite when tasted – Of course I am not sure what 75% abv sugar wash distillate is supposed to taste like.  The best run I have gotten so far is by using the Vodka yeast with distilled water. It had almost no smell with a minimal bite in the 75% abv range.  I am thinking it is the yeast that makes the difference since the same mixture with Turbo yeast produces the same abv but has a strong smell and needs to be soaked in carbon to make it drinkable.  Recently a respondent to a question about carbon filtering said that the trick is to make ethanol that does not need to be filtered. I agree but I ain’t there yet.  How much does a specific yeast determine the quality of the resulting distillate?  Tom

       

       

       

      From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
      Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 12:04 PM
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Strange Readings

       

       

      Tom,

      "The Alcoholometer

      For any home distiller, the alcoholometer should probably be your first
      instrument purchase. At its simplest, the alcoholometer is simply a
      weighted glass bulb, with a printed scale inside the vertical stem. While it
      is sold to measure ethanol content, what it actually measures is the density
      of a liquid, in grams per milliliter (g/ml), in a range from.794 g/ml to 1.000
      g/ml. This is the density range of an ethanol/water solution, from pure
      ethanol to pure water, so if you have a mixture with only ethanol and water
      in it, you can infer from the density how much ethanol is in your mixture.

      Of course, you don't have to actually read a density in g/ml, and convert
      that to % alcohol (ethanol) by volume (%ABV); the alcoholometer
      manufacturer does that for you, by giving you a scale that reads directly in
      %ABV. "If you can read %ABV directly off the alcoholometer scale", you
      might well ask, "what's all that fuss about density?" The important point
      here is that, unless your mixture is nothing but ethanol and water, the
      reading is meaningless, and that pretty much translates to this: the
      alcoholometer only works on the distillate, liquid that has already been
      vaporized and condensed by the still, and is so close to a pure ethanol/water
      mixture that the density-%ABV translation works.

      As an example, if you drop your alcoholometer into pure propylene glycol,
      commonly used as antifreeze, the instrument will see a density of .965 g/ml
      and tell you that your antifreeze is really 36% ethanol by volume, and that's
      just not true; there's not a drop of ethanol in it. Of course, it would be silly
      to measure the %ABV in pure antifreeze, but it would be equally silly to try
      measuring the %ABV in a fermented (or fermenting) wash, a mixture of
      water, sugars both unfermented and non-fermenting, yeast, gas bubbles,
      and grain or fruit solids. Either way, the alcoholometer is not much help."
      Making Fine Spirits- Zymurgy Bob (should be on the shelves by the end of August)

      I really hope this helps.

      Oh, yeah. Making that column longer won't do much (if anything) to increase the ABV of your distillate.

      Is that 1.058 beginning or ending sg? Either way is probably not what you want.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "shedhouse662" <tocowdrey3@...> wrote:
      >
      > I just fermented a 20L sugar mash using distilled water, Prestige Professional Yeast Blend with AG. It fermented for 7 days as the directions said it would. The readings I got from the mash were
      > Ph: 3.7; SG: 1.058 and ABV: 0%. The alcohol meter actually floated above the 0 mark. I have a small reflux still so I ran 10L of it anyway and got an ABV of 74% on the first 400 ML and 64% on the second 400 ML.
      >
      > 1) Why would I get a 0% ABV reading on the mash when there was clearly alcohol in it?
      >
      > 2) The column of my still is 8" high. Should I increase the height of the column to get more abv on the first run?
      >
      > Thanks. Tom
      >

    • tgfoitwoods
      Tom, To make a long story short, use a standard triple-scale hydrometer to read the starting specific gravity (O.G.) of your wash before you pitch yeast, and
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 10, 2011
        Tom,

        To make a long story short, use a standard triple-scale hydrometer to read the starting specific gravity (O.G.) of your wash before you pitch yeast, and the final specific gravity (F.G.) after fermentation is finished, and ...

        "While the O.G was a rough guess at what we started with, and the F.G. is a
        rougher guess at where we finished, the difference between O.G. and F.G. is
        a pretty accurate measure of how much sugar has been converted to
        alcohol, and that tells us what we really wanted to know all along. To find
        the approximate %ABV of a fermented wash, subtract the F.G. from the
        O.G. and multiply by 131. Using numbers from my favorite strong Scotch
        ale, we get (1.084 - 1.018)(131)= 8.65%ABV, a fairly strong ale."
        Making Fine Spirits, Zymurgy Bob

        As for getting good-tasting washes, and therefore good-tasting  spirit, I have to tell you first that I am not a turbo user, but from answering questions here, it appears that turbos, in the hands of many, can make bad-tasting wash.  Since you pay a lot more for turbos than you do for "regular" yeasts like Lalvin EC-1118, which can easily make  great-tasting wash at 14-15% ABV, with proper nutrition, EC-1118 and no carbon always seemed to make more sense than turbos with carbon.

        I understand not everyone shares my opinion on that matter, but many do. One of the best non-turbo recipes is the MUM wash. Go to :
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/Mason%20Jar%20Dixon%20-%20Rye%20Junkie/
        and open the MUM wash file. Waldo's GEM wash is a similar but probably faster sugar wash, also (I'm told) with great flavor.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Cowdrey" <tocowdrey3@...> wrote:
        >
        > Bob,
        >
        > Thanks for the explanation. That helps a lot, however how is one supposed
        > to know what abv wash he is starting with when it goes in the still? I must
        > be missing something.
        >
        >
        >
        > The SG reading was the beginning SG - I put that in case it would help the
        > original issue about the 0% abv. OK, I still have a problem to solve, 1)
        > So far I have only run sugar washes and the best I can get is 75% abv - it
        > does not matter if I run it as a pot or a reflux, I still get the max of
        > 70/75%. I might be happy with that if it had no smell and did not bite when
        > tasted - Of course I am not sure what 75% abv sugar wash distillate is
        > supposed to taste like. The best run I have gotten so far is by using the
        > Vodka yeast with distilled water. It had almost no smell with a minimal bite
        > in the 75% abv range. I am thinking it is the yeast that makes the
        > difference since the same mixture with Turbo yeast produces the same abv but
        > has a strong smell and needs to be soaked in carbon to make it drinkable.
        > Recently a respondent to a question about carbon filtering said that the
        > trick is to make ethanol that does not need to be filtered. I agree but I
        > ain't there yet. How much does a specific yeast determine the quality of
        > the resulting distillate? Tom
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of tgfoitwoods
        > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 12:04 PM
        > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Strange Readings
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > "The Alcoholometer
        >
        > For any home distiller, the alcoholometer should probably be your first
        > instrument purchase. At its simplest, the alcoholometer is simply a
        > weighted glass bulb, with a printed scale inside the vertical stem. While it
        > is sold to measure ethanol content, what it actually measures is the density
        > of a liquid, in grams per milliliter (g/ml), in a range from.794 g/ml to
        > 1.000
        > g/ml. This is the density range of an ethanol/water solution, from pure
        > ethanol to pure water, so if you have a mixture with only ethanol and water
        > in it, you can infer from the density how much ethanol is in your mixture.
        >
        > Of course, you don't have to actually read a density in g/ml, and convert
        > that to % alcohol (ethanol) by volume (%ABV); the alcoholometer
        > manufacturer does that for you, by giving you a scale that reads directly in
        > %ABV. "If you can read %ABV directly off the alcoholometer scale", you
        > might well ask, "what's all that fuss about density?" The important point
        > here is that, unless your mixture is nothing but ethanol and water, the
        > reading is meaningless, and that pretty much translates to this: the
        > alcoholometer only works on the distillate, liquid that has already been
        > vaporized and condensed by the still, and is so close to a pure
        > ethanol/water
        > mixture that the density-%ABV translation works.
        >
        > As an example, if you drop your alcoholometer into pure propylene glycol,
        > commonly used as antifreeze, the instrument will see a density of .965 g/ml
        > and tell you that your antifreeze is really 36% ethanol by volume, and
        > that's
        > just not true; there's not a drop of ethanol in it. Of course, it would be
        > silly
        > to measure the %ABV in pure antifreeze, but it would be equally silly to try
        > measuring the %ABV in a fermented (or fermenting) wash, a mixture of
        > water, sugars both unfermented and non-fermenting, yeast, gas bubbles,
        > and grain or fruit solids. Either way, the alcoholometer is not much help."
        > Making Fine Spirits- Zymurgy Bob (should be on the shelves by the end of
        > August)
        >
        > I really hope this helps.
        >
        > Oh, yeah. Making that column longer won't do much (if anything) to increase
        > the ABV of your distillate.
        >
        > Is that 1.058 beginning or ending sg? Either way is probably not what you
        > want.
        >
        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "shedhouse662" tocowdrey3@
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I just fermented a 20L sugar mash using distilled water, Prestige
        > Professional Yeast Blend with AG. It fermented for 7 days as the directions
        > said it would. The readings I got from the mash were
        > > Ph: 3.7; SG: 1.058 and ABV: 0%. The alcohol meter actually floated above
        > the 0 mark. I have a small reflux still so I ran 10L of it anyway and got an
        > ABV of 74% on the first 400 ML and 64% on the second 400 ML.
        > >
        > > 1) Why would I get a 0% ABV reading on the mash when there was clearly
        > alcohol in it?
        > >
        > > 2) The column of my still is 8" high. Should I increase the height of the
        > column to get more abv on the first run?
        > >
        > > Thanks. Tom
        > >
        >
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