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Re: using raw water

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  • geoff burrows
    I used to live in Sligo in the west of Ireland and all our drinking water was drawn from our artesian well high on the side of a hill. As have my wife s
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 2, 2011
           I used to live in Sligo in the west of Ireland and all our drinking water was drawn from our artesian well high on the side of a hill.  As have my wife's family (The Sherlocks) have drawn from the same well for over 2 to 3 hundred years and that's as far as we can search back in the records to.  All of the men in her family are healthy 6 foot plus men whose average age, baring accidents civil wars in Ireland, in the US and world wars, is well into the 80 year old plus.
           They have always used the well water and up until this last 15 years it has always been carried to the main house in white enamel buckets with the odd tad pole  swimming around in it.  I've done countless ferments in this water and washes. 
           And apparently my wife's great grandfather has done quite a few poteen mashes (with barley) that Trevelyan (a 38-year-old English civil servant named Charles Edward Trevelyan) didn't get a hold of.   Google the name, in Irish history he was a very bad man to put it mildly. 
           So what I'm really saying is if you would drink the water straight from the well, as possibly your parents or grand parents did, with no ill effects then i would say it's fine.
      HTH
      Geoff  
    • landrover_ffr
      Hi Bravo, Spring water should be just fine and dandy. I use well water of doubtful quality (almost undrinkable. I don t use it for dilution) with good results.
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 2, 2011
        Hi Bravo,
        Spring water should be just fine and dandy. I use well water of doubtful quality (almost undrinkable. I don't use it for dilution) with good results.
        As you are look at 1000 litre ferments I would recommend getting a full water test done. I got one for our new well (which has great tasting water) and I think it is well worth the investment. I don't have the test results on me, but I could find it if you are interested. It cost me about $200NZD and contained information on metals (lead, iron, copper etc.), biological nasties (fecal chloroforms, nitrates etc.) and softness, turbidity and the like.
        The information about metals and nasties is good to know for any product. The softness etc. is only really useful when brewing beer (hardness has a direct affect on perceived bitterness).
        My advice is that if you are getting serious, get a water test.
        Regards,
        Sid.
      • bravo
        thanks guys, i havedone a water test, there are some nasties in there but the norm nasties only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 2, 2011
          thanks guys,
          i havedone a water test,
          there are some nasties in there
          but the norm nasties
          only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and explode in numbers when they see all the sex going on next to them
          lol
          the chemical contents are ok where metal is concern
          thanks for the reply
          if any body has some info about microbes reaction in a ferment
          do they strive or die
          would be glad to know
        • jamesonbeam1
          Bravo, You can kill any nasties in both the water and on you mango fruits using potassium or sodium metabisulfite, which is a chemical added to the
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 4, 2011
            Bravo,

            You can kill any nasties in both the water and on you mango fruits using potassium or sodium metabisulfite, which is a chemical added to the fermentation a day before the yeast is added.  This produces SO2 gas which will kill any bacterial.  It is used extensively in the wine industry for sterilizing a fermentation.  I believe potassium metabisulfite is the preferred one to use. 

            Add this to your fermentation before you add your yeast and wait 24 hours or so for the sulfer dioxide gas to escape before adding yeast. 

            JB. aka Waldo.

            Wine

            Potassium metabisulfite is a common wine or must additive, in which it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as a potent antioxidant, protecting both the color and delicate flavors of wine.

            The typical dosage is 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite per six-gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75 ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation; then 1/2 tsp per six-gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.

            Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.

             Beer

            Potassium metabisulfite is sometimes used in the brewing industry to inhibit the growth of wild yeasts, bacteria, and fungi. This is called 'stabilizing'. It is also used to neutralize chloramine that has been added to tap water at the source as a disinfectant. It is used both by homebrewers and commercial brewers alike. It is not used as much for brewing beer, because the wort is almost always boiled, which kills most microorganisms anyway. It can also be added to strike water (the water used to mash the barley) in order to remove chloramines which can cause phenolic off flavors in beer.



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravo" <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > thanks guys,
            > i havedone a water test,
            > there are some nasties in there
            > but the norm nasties
            > only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and explode in numbers when they see all the sex going on next to them
            > lol
            > the chemical contents are ok where metal is concern
            > thanks for the reply
            > if any body has some info about microbes reaction in a ferment
            > do they strive or die
            > would be glad to know
            >
          • bravo
            ok i was reading and they say that there are 2 other ways that this can be done 1st buy a uv light sterilizer which your water pass through before reaching the
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 4, 2011
              ok
              i was reading and they say that there are 2 other ways that this can be done
              1st buy a uv light sterilizer which your water pass through before reaching the fermentors

              2nd is to use a ozoniser
              i think this might not be the best idea since ozoniser makes the water 03 correct me if im wrong please
              03 will kill even the yeast

              if anybody out there have used it then i welcome yor feedback
              i just want to eliminate the need to rely on importing bags of chemicals every 3 or 6 months
              thanks waldo for the advise
              bossy

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bravo,
              >
              > You can kill any nasties in both the water and on you mango fruits using
              > potassium or sodium metabisulfite, which is a chemical added to the
              > fermentation a day before the yeast is added. This produces SO2 gas
              > which will kill any bacterial. It is used extensively in the wine
              > industry for sterilizing a fermentation. I believe potassium
              > metabisulfite is the preferred one to use.
              >
              > Add this to your fermentation before you add your yeast and wait 24
              > hours or so for the sulfer dioxide gas to escape before adding yeast.
              >
              > JB. aka Waldo.
              >
              > Wine
              > Potassium metabisulfite is a common wine
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine> or must
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must> additive, in which it forms sulfur
              > dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism> from growing, and it acts
              > as a potent antioxidant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> ,
              > protecting both the color and delicate flavors of wine.
              >
              > The typical dosage is 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite per six-gallon
              > bucket of must (yielding roughly 75 ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation;
              > then 1/2 tsp per six-gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.
              >
              > Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp
              > potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.
              > Beer
              > Potassium metabisulfite is sometimes used in the brewing
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing> industry to inhibit the growth
              > of wild yeasts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast> , bacteria
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria> , and fungi
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungi> . This is called 'stabilizing'. It
              > is also used to neutralize chloramine
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine> that has been added to tap
              > water at the source as a disinfectant. It is used both by homebrewers
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing> and commercial brewers
              > alike. It is not used as much for brewing beer
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer> , because the wort
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wort_%28brewing%29> is almost always
              > boiled, which kills most microorganisms anyway. It can also be added to
              > strike water (the water used to mash the barley) in order to remove
              > chloramines which can cause phenolic off flavors in beer.
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravo" <bravoseychelles@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > thanks guys,
              > > i havedone a water test,
              > > there are some nasties in there
              > > but the norm nasties
              > > only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and
              > explode in numbers when they see all the sex going on next to them
              > > lol
              > > the chemical contents are ok where metal is concern
              > > thanks for the reply
              > > if any body has some info about microbes reaction in a ferment
              > > do they strive or die
              > > would be glad to know
              > >
              >
            • squirrelliquer
              Please don t beat me up about this as it s a thought and I m a beginner. Please correct me if I am wrong though. Years ago there was no way to test water other
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 4, 2011
                Please don't beat me up about this as it's a thought and I'm a beginner. Please correct me if I am wrong though. Years ago there was no way to test water other than location and plants around a well,creek,or any other type of water source. People used to use untreated water to make their whiskey and find out what water source tasted or worked the best. When they found good water they would stick to it and I think some distilleries and beer makers still do. If you have the time, resources, and patience to make several small batches from several sources, one batch using chemicals, and using the identical recipe to find out what works and tastes best. Almost like starting completely over I know.

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bravo,
                >
                > You can kill any nasties in both the water and on you mango fruits using
                > potassium or sodium metabisulfite, which is a chemical added to the
                > fermentation a day before the yeast is added. This produces SO2 gas
                > which will kill any bacterial. It is used extensively in the wine
                > industry for sterilizing a fermentation. I believe potassium
                > metabisulfite is the preferred one to use.
                >
                > Add this to your fermentation before you add your yeast and wait 24
                > hours or so for the sulfer dioxide gas to escape before adding yeast.
                >
                > JB. aka Waldo.
                >
                > Wine
                > Potassium metabisulfite is a common wine
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine> or must
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must> additive, in which it forms sulfur
                > dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism> from growing, and it acts
                > as a potent antioxidant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> ,
                > protecting both the color and delicate flavors of wine.
                >
                > The typical dosage is 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite per six-gallon
                > bucket of must (yielding roughly 75 ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation;
                > then 1/2 tsp per six-gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.
                >
                > Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp
                > potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.
                > Beer
                > Potassium metabisulfite is sometimes used in the brewing
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing> industry to inhibit the growth
                > of wild yeasts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast> , bacteria
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria> , and fungi
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungi> . This is called 'stabilizing'. It
                > is also used to neutralize chloramine
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine> that has been added to tap
                > water at the source as a disinfectant. It is used both by homebrewers
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing> and commercial brewers
                > alike. It is not used as much for brewing beer
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer> , because the wort
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wort_%28brewing%29> is almost always
                > boiled, which kills most microorganisms anyway. It can also be added to
                > strike water (the water used to mash the barley) in order to remove
                > chloramines which can cause phenolic off flavors in beer.
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravo" <bravoseychelles@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > thanks guys,
                > > i havedone a water test,
                > > there are some nasties in there
                > > but the norm nasties
                > > only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and
                > explode in numbers when they see all the sex going on next to them
                > > lol
                > > the chemical contents are ok where metal is concern
                > > thanks for the reply
                > > if any body has some info about microbes reaction in a ferment
                > > do they strive or die
                > > would be glad to know
                > >
                >
              • JP
                Is boiling the raw water, say in your still, in order to kill nasties an option? Or would this remove other desirable features of the water? Uses fuel
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 5, 2011
                  Is boiling the raw water, say in your still, in order to kill "nasties" an option? Or would this remove other desirable features of the water?

                  Uses fuel obviously.

                  I don't know. Just a thought if you are worried about fecals and such...

                  What about distilling the water through your still. Maybe throwing-out the last 20% or something.

                  JP

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "squirrelliquer" <squirrelliquer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Please don't beat me up about this as it's a thought and I'm a beginner. Please correct me if I am wrong though. Years ago there was no way to test water other than location and plants around a well,creek,or any other type of water source. People used to use untreated water to make their whiskey and find out what water source tasted or worked the best. When they found good water they would stick to it and I think some distilleries and beer makers still do. If you have the time, resources, and patience to make several small batches from several sources, one batch using chemicals, and using the identical recipe to find out what works and tastes best. Almost like starting completely over I know.
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Bravo,
                  > >
                  > > You can kill any nasties in both the water and on you mango fruits using
                  > > potassium or sodium metabisulfite, which is a chemical added to the
                  > > fermentation a day before the yeast is added. This produces SO2 gas
                  > > which will kill any bacterial. It is used extensively in the wine
                  > > industry for sterilizing a fermentation. I believe potassium
                  > > metabisulfite is the preferred one to use.
                  > >
                  > > Add this to your fermentation before you add your yeast and wait 24
                  > > hours or so for the sulfer dioxide gas to escape before adding yeast.
                  > >
                  > > JB. aka Waldo.
                  > >
                  > > Wine
                  > > Potassium metabisulfite is a common wine
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine> or must
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must> additive, in which it forms sulfur
                  > > dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism> from growing, and it acts
                  > > as a potent antioxidant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> ,
                  > > protecting both the color and delicate flavors of wine.
                  > >
                  > > The typical dosage is 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite per six-gallon
                  > > bucket of must (yielding roughly 75 ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation;
                  > > then 1/2 tsp per six-gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.
                  > >
                  > > Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp
                  > > potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.
                  > > Beer
                  > > Potassium metabisulfite is sometimes used in the brewing
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing> industry to inhibit the growth
                  > > of wild yeasts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast> , bacteria
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria> , and fungi
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungi> . This is called 'stabilizing'. It
                  > > is also used to neutralize chloramine
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine> that has been added to tap
                  > > water at the source as a disinfectant. It is used both by homebrewers
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing> and commercial brewers
                  > > alike. It is not used as much for brewing beer
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer> , because the wort
                  > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wort_%28brewing%29> is almost always
                  > > boiled, which kills most microorganisms anyway. It can also be added to
                  > > strike water (the water used to mash the barley) in order to remove
                  > > chloramines which can cause phenolic off flavors in beer.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravo" <bravoseychelles@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > thanks guys,
                  > > > i havedone a water test,
                  > > > there are some nasties in there
                  > > > but the norm nasties
                  > > > only wanted to know if those nasties would do like the yeast and
                  > > explode in numbers when they see all the sex going on next to them
                  > > > lol
                  > > > the chemical contents are ok where metal is concern
                  > > > thanks for the reply
                  > > > if any body has some info about microbes reaction in a ferment
                  > > > do they strive or die
                  > > > would be glad to know
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • bruich44
                  ... I m very curious what normal nasties are? Here, normal nasties is arsenic. A $200 basic 5-stage, under the counter RO filter completely removes this, and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 5, 2011
                    > > > there are some nasties in there
                    > > > but the norm nasties


                    I'm very curious what normal nasties are? Here, normal nasties is arsenic. A $200 basic 5-stage, under the counter RO filter completely removes this, and we live off our RO as our sole drinking source.

                    I'm also curious what source you tested your water from. Unless you're confident you have a clean tap and your water is truly bad, I'd find the cleanest-looking faucet or spigot on your property, then give it a thorough cleaning with bleach and a tooth brush, taking it apart if possible. Put it back together, run some water out of it, then take another sample and re-test.

                    You'd be surprised how many tests fail due to a dirty aerator on a faucet instead of bacteria in the actual source water.

                    And if you do have a dirty well, you may want to do a bleach cleaning of that and your water lines too. Do a web search on how. It will save you money on chemicals in the long run.


                    -b
                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Hi JP, Yes, both boiling and distilling your water will kill any bacteria that may infect your fermentation. Distilled water will produce some of the purest
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 6, 2011
                      Hi JP,

                      Yes, both boiling and distilling your water will kill any bacteria that
                      may infect your fermentation. Distilled water will produce some of the
                      purest water.

                      However, the desirable feature you will lose with both these options is
                      the available oxygen in it that the yeast need to grow their colony
                      during the exponential growth phase. You can overcome this problem by
                      aerating it with a pump and stone for about 6 hours.

                      As Squirrel mentioned, commercial distilleries still use the natural
                      waters around. The limestone waters in Kentucky and the peat flavored
                      waters in Scotland give Bourbons and Scotch some of their character.
                      While they used it in its natural state in the past, now they purify it
                      by reverse osmosis which is a method of filtering the water thru very
                      fine filters that only allow the water molecules to pass through them.

                      This is another option that Bossy might want to consider.

                      JB. aka Waldo.

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JP" <joepeer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Is boiling the raw water, say in your still, in order to kill
                      "nasties" an option? Or would this remove other desirable features of
                      the water?
                      >
                      > Uses fuel obviously.
                      >
                      > I don't know. Just a thought if you are worried about fecals and
                      such...
                      >
                      > What about distilling the water through your still. Maybe
                      throwing-out the last 20% or something.
                      >
                      > JP
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