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Blue Again!

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  • Tom
    To One and All: I have a VM reflux still and after a few runs of JEM wash have accumulated about ½ gallons each of reasonably clean heads and tails. Both
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 28, 2011
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      To One and All:

      I have a VM reflux still and after a few runs of JEM wash have accumulated about ½ gallons each of reasonably clean heads and tails. Both containers contained crystal clear liquid. In preparation for trying to clean it up, I mixed the two and ended up with one gallon of crystal clear liquid at about 60% abv. I read in several postings that before a second run it is advisable to add baking soda make the cuts easier to distinguish. So, I added baking soda at a rate of one tablespoon per liter. I planned to shake the liquid a couple of times per day and then at some appropriate time, I intended to either mix it with a new batch of JEM wash in the VM reflux still or dilute it with water it to yield enough volume to keep the heating elements covered as I tried to recover the "goodie" from it.

      Three days after adding the baking soda, the liquid turned slightly blue. I am familiar with getting an ammonia smelling blue output from the VM unit – it happened to me once. Thanks to advice from folks in this group, I cleaned it up by adding citric acid at 10 grams per liter. After the addition of citric acid, the crud precipitated, settled to the bottom, and the distillate cleared up. I decanted the clear stuff and re-ran it with great success.

      What caused the distillate in this instance to shift to slightly blue after it had been out of the still for several months? It was clear before adding the baking soda. Should I add citric acid before I run it or just pour it in the boiler as-is?

      One of these days, with the help of the folks on this site and the experience learned by cleaning up my mistakes, I may become a decent "operator".

      Now for the second issue:

      There was a message, #39981, indicating that Harry (aka gnikomson2000) had made Jim (aka jamesonbeam1, aka waldo) a co-owner of this site. Congratulations Jim! Now, help me here. What does it mean to be the "owner" of a site? I don't understand how a "site" works. Is there a membership fee? When I first logged onto Tony Ackland's site, homedistiller.org, I read a note from Tony that indicated that contributions were welcome. I made a contribution as the site was most helpful to me. If a fee is required or "welcome" for this group, I will certainly contribute, as should we all if possible. If so, how do I pay it and to whom? If it is paid by some electronic means, i.e. Pay Pal, the name of the remitter will not, in my case, be the same as the "Member Name" because for obvious reasons, my "Member Name" is fictitious. Please clue me in. I am reasonably new to this hobby and am very new to "groups".

      Thanks in advance,

      Tom
    • Harry
      ... had made Jim (aka jamesonbeam1, aka waldo) a co-owner of this site. Congratulations Jim! Now, help me here. What does it mean to be the owner of a
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 29, 2011
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
        >
        > There was a message, #39981, indicating that Harry (aka gnikomson2000) had made Jim (aka jamesonbeam1, aka waldo) a co-owner of this site.  Congratulations Jim!  Now, help me here.  What does it mean to be the "owner" of a site? 

         

        The owner or co-owner of a group or forum can do any or all of the following...

        [yes] Approve pending messages[yes] Add, remove, and change moderator privileges
        [yes] Approve pending members[yes] Set auto-send options for files
        [yes] Invite and add members[yes] Change group settings
        [yes] Remove members and reset bouncing members[yes] Delete this group
        [yes] Ban members

         

        I don't understand how a "site" works.  Is there a membership fee? 

        No.  The group is entirely FREE to the public to read all messages.  Posting, photo galleries, Files & links etc. requires a free membership signup.

         

        When I first logged onto Tony Ackland's site, homedistiller.org, I read a note from Tony that indicated that contributions were welcome.  I made a contribution as the site was most helpful to me.  If a fee is required or "welcome" for this group, I will certainly contribute, as should we all if possible.  If so, how do I pay it and to whom?  If it is paid by some electronic means, i.e. Pay Pal, the name of the remitter will not, in my case, be the same as the "Member Name" because for obvious reasons, my "Member Name" is fictitious.  Please clue me in.  I am reasonably new to this hobby and am very new to "groups".

        I appreciate the offer of a donation Tom.  However it is not necessary for these distillers hobby groups.  We give our time & experience purely so that we can share ideas & the fondness for a hobby we all enjoy very much.  Hopefully, in the course of doing this, we can also enlighten the general public about the true nature of this great pastime, as opposed to the myths and scare-tactics spread about by the hobby's opponents.  One day it may be beneficial in helping to legalise it worldwide, as it presently is in New Zealand.  At the very least, we hope to show and teach everyone the correct and SAFE procedures to adopt for producing your very own hand-crafted spiritous beverages.

        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > Tom
        >

         

        You're most welcome Tom.

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
        co-owner, on behalf of the Management team and members.

      • Tom
        Harry, Thanks! Thanks for putting this site together and for all the information that you and others provide. It is wonderful! ... SNIP
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 29, 2011
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          Harry,

          Thanks! Thanks for putting this site together and for all the information that you and others provide. It is wonderful!

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

          SNIP

          > I appreciate the offer of a donation Tom. However it is not necessary
          > for these distillers hobby groups. We give our time & experience purely
          > so that we can share ideas & the fondness for a hobby we all enjoy very
          > much. Hopefully, in the course of doing this, we can also enlighten the
          > general public about the true nature of this great pastime, as opposed
          > to the myths and scare-tactics spread about by the hobby's opponents.
          > One day it may be beneficial in helping to legalise it worldwide, as it
          > presently is in New Zealand. At the very least, we hope to show and
          > teach everyone the correct and SAFE procedures to adopt for producing
          > your very own hand-crafted spiritous beverages.
          >
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance,
          > >
          > > Tom
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > You're most welcome Tom.
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          > co-owner, on behalf of the Management team and members.
          >
        • Tom
          To One and All: Harry answered the second part of my question (regarding owners/co-ownwes and fees). Thanks again , Harry. Can anyone help me with the
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 30, 2011
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            To One and All:

            Harry answered the second part of my question (regarding owners/co-ownwes and fees). Thanks again , Harry. Can anyone help me with the question regarding the shift in color from clear to blue. I'm interested in the cause and a fix if necessary before running in a VM reflux unit.

            Thanks,

            Tom

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
            >
            > To One and All:
            >
            > I have a VM reflux still and after a few runs of JEM wash have accumulated about ½ gallons each of reasonably clean heads and tails. Both containers contained crystal clear liquid. In preparation for trying to clean it up, I mixed the two and ended up with one gallon of crystal clear liquid at about 60% abv. I read in several postings that before a second run it is advisable to add baking soda make the cuts easier to distinguish. So, I added baking soda at a rate of one tablespoon per liter. I planned to shake the liquid a couple of times per day and then at some appropriate time, I intended to either mix it with a new batch of JEM wash in the VM reflux still or dilute it with water it to yield enough volume to keep the heating elements covered as I tried to recover the "goodie" from it.
            >
            > Three days after adding the baking soda, the liquid turned slightly blue. I am familiar with getting an ammonia smelling blue output from the VM unit – it happened to me once. Thanks to advice from folks in this group, I cleaned it up by adding citric acid at 10 grams per liter. After the addition of citric acid, the crud precipitated, settled to the bottom, and the distillate cleared up. I decanted the clear stuff and re-ran it with great success.
            >
            > What caused the distillate in this instance to shift to slightly blue after it had been out of the still for several months? It was clear before adding the baking soda. Should I add citric acid before I run it or just pour it in the boiler as-is?
            >
            > One of these days, with the help of the folks on this site and the experience learned by cleaning up my mistakes, I may become a decent "operator".
            >
            > Now for the second issue:
            >
            >Snip
            >
            > Thanks in advance,
            >
            > Tom
            >
          • jamesonbeam1
            Hey Tom, Dang, never had that happen to me with the JEM wash turning blue after that long out of the still. Course never waited that long or tried re-adjusting
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 1, 2011
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              Hey Tom,
               
              Dang, never had that happen to me with the JEM wash turning blue after
               that long out of the still. Course never waited that long or tried
               re-adjusting pH. Always just re-distilled it in the spirits run and it
               came out fine.
               
              Now increasing the pH level by the adding the baking soda may have
               precipitatied some blue stuff, but im just totally guessing at this. I
               would cut back a bit on the nutrients your usuing next time.  As Tony
              oints out:

               Blue Spirit

              Sometimes the spirit may get a slight blue tinge to it. This is usually a sign that you've used too much nutrient in the wash. Mike explains ...

                I [previously] replied, saying it was probably due to copper salts coming from acid wash.  I WAS WRONG!!!!  

                In fact, I've learned that it is just the opposite! Acid washes do not corrode the condenser (unless, perhaps, they've been allowed to sit far to long and have gone acetic), but neutral to alkaline ones DO.  Heating an ALKALINE wash, particularly one with lots of nitrogen-containing compounds that have been put in as nutrients, liberates ammonia, which corrodes the heck out of reflux coils and dyes the distillate a distinct greenish blue.  

                The Upshot:  if the WASH is turning blue, it's probably due to acid wash corroding a copper sheathed element or a copper boiler, but if the collected DISTILLATE is blue, (and probably ammoniacal, but not always), the wash should be acidified!   

                Turbos contain a lot of nitrogen-containing compounds, and at neutral to high pH, these can liberate free ammonia.  At low pH, they are bound up with the acid as salts, and do not liberate ammonia.  So, by adding nutrients to an already nutrient rich turbo, you can inadvertently push the mix over the line and get ammonia with your distillate.

               
              As far as fixing it, I would try running a part of it thru again as is
               and see if that fixes the problem. If not, then re-acidify it and
               re-distill. Please let me know what the outcome is. Im as confused as
               you are :(:">

               
              JB. aka Waldo.
               

              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" tomhawk412@ wrote:
              > >
              > > To One and All:
              > >
              > > Harry answered the second part of my question (regarding
              > owners/co-ownwes and fees). Thanks again , Harry. Can anyone help me
              > with the question regarding the shift in color from clear to blue. I'm
              > interested in the cause and a fix if necessary before running in a VM
              > reflux unit.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Tom
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" tomhawk412@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > To One and All:
              > > >
              > > > I have a VM reflux still and after a few runs of JEM wash have
              > accumulated about ½ gallons each of reasonably clean heads and tails.
              > Both containers contained crystal clear liquid. In preparation for
              > trying to clean it up, I mixed the two and ended up with one gallon of
              > crystal clear liquid at about 60% abv. I read in several postings that
              > before a second run it is advisable to add baking soda make the cuts
              > easier to distinguish. So, I added baking soda at a rate of one
              > tablespoon per liter. I planned to shake the liquid a couple of times
              > per day and then at some appropriate time, I intended to either mix it
              > with a new batch of JEM wash in the VM reflux still or dilute it with
              > water it to yield enough volume to keep the heating elements covered as
              > I tried to recover the "goodie" from it.
              > > >
              > > > Three days after adding the baking soda, the liquid turned slightly
              > blue. I am familiar with getting an ammonia smelling blue output from
              > the VM unit – it happened to me once. Thanks to advice from folks in
              > this group, I cleaned it up by adding citric acid at 10 grams per liter.
              > After the addition of citric acid, the crud precipitated, settled to the
              > bottom, and the distillate cleared up. I decanted the clear stuff and
              > re-ran it with great success.
              > > >
              > > > What caused the distillate in this instance to shift to slightly
              > blue after it had been out of the still for several months? It was clear
              > before adding the baking soda. Should I add citric acid before I run it
              > or just pour it in the boiler as-is?
              > > >
              > > > One of these days, with the help of the folks on this site and the
              > experience learned by cleaning up my mistakes, I may become a decent
              > "operator".
              > > >
              > > > Now for the second issue:
              > > >
              > > >Snip
              > > >
              > > > Thanks in advance,
              > > >
              > > > Tom
              > > >
              > >
              >

            • Tom
              JB, Thanks. Maybe one of these days I ll get the hang of this stuff. It will be a while before I will have time to re-run the spirits. When I do, I ll
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 1, 2011
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                JB,

                Thanks. Maybe one of these days I'll get the hang of this stuff. It will be a while before I will have time to re-run the spirits. When I do, I'll report.

                Thanks,

                Tyson

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hey Tom,
                >
                > Dang, never had that happen to me with the JEM wash turning blue after
                > that long out of the still.

                Snip
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