Re: wash with dunder
- Hi Jim
Happened that a couple of my rum, all molasses, washes got stuck and think it was the dunder was too acidic. I had to dump a big amount of yeast to revive the fermentation and somehow I was under the impression that my yields were lower. I don´t work with sugar anymore, simply is more expensive than molasses which I get for some US$ 1.50 per gallon.
In the other hand, for my last spirit run of rum (from 2 gallons low wines) I got, in my opinion, too much for heads (1.4 liters at 77 % ABV) and tails (3 liters at 65% ABV) and not that much middle (1 liter at 75 % ABV). I went all by taste and did add the rum oils to the tails. Ideas?
- Hi Alex,
My thought's on this are:
Dunder has no dissoluble oxygen present.
Once mixed as a sugar/water wash (or molasses/water), the available oxygen is less than starting with a new wash.
One of my early experiments ended in near complete failure when I used more than 50% dunder in the wash, fermentation didn't start until I diluted the wash to 20% or thereabouts.
I've never had a stripping run that yielded high % using molasses or dunder/molasses.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Alex Castillo" <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
> Hi everybody and happy 2011!
> Why do you get lower yields when using dunder for your rum wash? got to use more yeast? Maybe Harry can add on this and share how he does his cuts at spirits run.
- Hey Alex,
Hard to say from a distance here, and not sure what I can tell you that
you dont already know.
Without knowing the amount of dunder you added, hope you checked the pH
level of the starting fermentation after addition. I do tend to agree
with Moss, when he talked about the lack of available O2 if your adding
more the 30% dunder and you need to do some aeration of the
ferementation to start off. As far as the pH levels, you should alway
check the initial pH on the start of the fermentation and dont start off
less than 4.8 (assuming loss of another point or so during
Now since your using just straight molasses and getting it so cheap
(damn you would choke if I told you 1.25 US is more then I pay for a
pint of the good stuff I can only get here), could it be you got a few
batches with a really low yield of sugar???
I mean the molasses I have to use is cooking quality first run and
contains 60% or so sugars versus most likely the blackstrap you are
using from the 3rd boiling that has way less sugar content in it??? I
know some of the blackstrap that ZB has found around the US contains
less then 40% sugars.
Do me a favor, let me know if you can find out the brix of your
molasses, the amounts and ratio your using, along with the amount and
ratio of the dunder and the starting pH and SG of the fermentation. May
give us some clues. Also what type of yeast are you using now? If you
are using straight molasses, be careful, since not only the pH, but the
excess osmodic pressures from the additional solids in it that can kill
off the yeasts and cause a stuck fermentation. I beleive Harry has
mentions it should be diluted at least 4 to 1.
JB. aka Waldo.
--- In email@example.com, "Alex Castillo"
>think it was the dunder was too acidic. I had to dump a big amount of
> Hi Jim
> Happened that a couple of my rum, all molasses, washes got stuck and
yeast to revive the fermentation and somehow I was under the impression
that my yields were lower. I don´t work with sugar anymore, simply is
more expensive than molasses which I get for some US$ 1.50 per gallon.
>wines) I got, in my opinion, too much for heads (1.4 liters at 77 % ABV)
> In the other hand, for my last spirit run of rum (from 2 gallons low
and tails (3 liters at 65% ABV) and not that much middle (1 liter at 75
% ABV). I went all by taste and did add the rum oils to the tails.
- Hi Jim
Well, about the PH is in fact very low (around 3 maybe as I measure it with one of those PH strips). But I found and old post from Harry in which he gives a clue: use a lot of yeast. He there says that he uses some 300 grams. So I did it, took some 4 liters of molasses, dunder and water, almost 50/50, DAP and around a cup of baker´s yeast and lots of air (from the aquarium pump). It worked! It began at around 1.090 and now is at 1.040 where my lasts fermentations are stopping (too much solids?! I remind you I don´t clarify the molasses). For next one I´ll use less molasses (3 liters) to reduce the SG. But what really pisses me off is the fact of being unable to reuse my yeast, while it´s ok for baker´s but the other ones are expensive and as you know come in 5 grams sachets, so using large amounts each time does not sound like a plan I´d like to follow. For those I´ll think only will use dunder for the spirits run only and not for the wash. Anyways my next experiment will be using some 5 liters of lees (trub) and plenty air, dunder/water 50/50, DAP and let´s see how it goes. In the other hand what you feel about molasses I feel the same about malt, is so expensive for me and it gives so lower yields, oh boy!
- Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply and the ideas. Yes, I think that oxygen could be an important factor. I did an experiment adding lots of air and also lots of yeast and the fermentation worked.