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Re: bicarb question

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  • tgfoitwoods
    Justin, Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I can t find the other. Sorry. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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      Justin,

      Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I can't find the other. Sorry.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler than usual)

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
      >
      > thanks,
      > can you name the two esters you're talking about here?
      > is one Isobutyl Propionate?
      >
      > I actually went ahead and tried 4 desertspoons of bicarb in my spirit run and the results were pretty good.
      > admittedly it was a bit of a weird experimental batch which I was expecting to taste foul so I thought I'd just give it a crack.
      > I'll avoid it in my good stuff.
      >
      > cheers,
      > justin
      >
      > On 9/11/2010, at 9:39 AM, tgfoitwoods wrote:
      >
      > > Justin,
      > >
      > > Sorry to be so slow getting back to you.
      > >
      > > Firstly, I'd never use bicarb in any flavored-spirit run, like
      > > whisk(e)y, brandy or rum. What you have seen correctly as suppression of
      > > ethyl acetate formation is in fact uppression of all ester formation,
      > > and much of the flavor and/or nose of any good liquor is in its ester
      > > profile. In rum there are specifically 2 esters that together are called
      > > "rum oil", and using bicarb will lose you all that flavor.
      > >
      > > Second, I'd never use bicarb in a first run, a beer-stripping run, even
      > > if I were aiming for a tasteless spirit. The bicarb can raise the pH
      > > enough to make the nitrogen compounds in your wash, mostly from yeast
      > > nutrients, react wiht the copper in your still, especially in the
      > > column, to make Schweizer's reagent, a blue copper ammonia complex that
      > > colors your spirit blue. And no-one wnats to drink copper compounds.
      > >
      > > Only use bicarb on the second (or more) still run, so there can be no
      > > nitrogen compounds in the wash.
      > >
      > > Don't worry about pH in a low-wines run; chasing pH can make you crazy
      > > and mess up a good wash. I use about a quarter cup in a 15-gallon still
      > > charge. It's certainly overkill, but it hurts nothing, and is simply an
      > > excess reagent in the reaction.
      > >
      > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi chaps,
      > > > I've been googling but not finding much info on the effect of bicarb
      > > on the likes of rum and whiskey.
      > > > I understand the benefits with respect to ethyl acetate but should I
      > > be concerned about losing or ruining some of the more desirable
      > > flavours?
      > > >
      > > > and I'm still not quite sure about quantities - should I aim for a
      > > specific pH? does 6 sound right?
      > > > and if so - should I be adjusting with citric acid in order to get a
      > > specific quantity of bicarb in there?
      > > >
      > > > cheers,
      > > > justin
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • tgfoitwoods
      Glen, That might be, but since the reactions are sped up at higher temperatures, I always figured most of what I want to happen will happen during heatup and
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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        Glen,

        That might be, but since the reactions are sped up at higher temperatures, I always figured most of what I want to happen will happen during heatup and distillation. Of course, I've been wrong before.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Glen - BetGear" <glen@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        >
        >
        > According to a post I've read somewhere (most likely home distiller), if
        > you're using bicarb, then it should be left in the low wines to infuse for
        > 3-4 days before running through the still.
        >
        >
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        >
        >
        > Glen.
        >
        >
        >
        >----snip----
      • jamesonbeam1
        Another oily alcohol (not really an ester) is Furfural found in the tails that gives rum some if its flavor, according to some souces I have read. JB. ...
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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          Another oily alcohol (not really an ester) is Furfural found in the
          tails that gives rum some if its flavor, according to some souces I have
          read.

          JB.


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Justin,
          >
          > Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I
          can't find the other. Sorry.
          >
          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler than usual)
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster mail@ wrote:
          > >
          > > thanks,
          > > can you name the two esters you're talking about here?
          > > is one Isobutyl Propionate?
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