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Re: bicarb question

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  • waljaco
    If you want ethyl acetate you add acetic acid (vinegar). It reacts with the ethyl alcohol. Vodka distillers also add bicarbonate I guess to neutralize any
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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      If you want ethyl acetate you add acetic acid (vinegar). It reacts with the ethyl alcohol. Vodka distillers also add bicarbonate I guess to neutralize any excess acid (?). But is ethyl acetate desirable?
      wal


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi chaps,
      > I've been googling but not finding much info on the effect of bicarb on the likes of rum and whiskey.
      > I understand the benefits with respect to ethyl acetate but should I be concerned about losing or ruining some of the more desirable flavours?
      >
      > and I'm still not quite sure about quantities - should I aim for a specific pH? does 6 sound right?
      > and if so - should I be adjusting with citric acid in order to get a specific quantity of bicarb in there?
      >
      > cheers,
      > justin
      >
    • tgfoitwoods
      Justin, Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I can t find the other. Sorry. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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        Justin,

        Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I can't find the other. Sorry.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler than usual)

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
        >
        > thanks,
        > can you name the two esters you're talking about here?
        > is one Isobutyl Propionate?
        >
        > I actually went ahead and tried 4 desertspoons of bicarb in my spirit run and the results were pretty good.
        > admittedly it was a bit of a weird experimental batch which I was expecting to taste foul so I thought I'd just give it a crack.
        > I'll avoid it in my good stuff.
        >
        > cheers,
        > justin
        >
        > On 9/11/2010, at 9:39 AM, tgfoitwoods wrote:
        >
        > > Justin,
        > >
        > > Sorry to be so slow getting back to you.
        > >
        > > Firstly, I'd never use bicarb in any flavored-spirit run, like
        > > whisk(e)y, brandy or rum. What you have seen correctly as suppression of
        > > ethyl acetate formation is in fact uppression of all ester formation,
        > > and much of the flavor and/or nose of any good liquor is in its ester
        > > profile. In rum there are specifically 2 esters that together are called
        > > "rum oil", and using bicarb will lose you all that flavor.
        > >
        > > Second, I'd never use bicarb in a first run, a beer-stripping run, even
        > > if I were aiming for a tasteless spirit. The bicarb can raise the pH
        > > enough to make the nitrogen compounds in your wash, mostly from yeast
        > > nutrients, react wiht the copper in your still, especially in the
        > > column, to make Schweizer's reagent, a blue copper ammonia complex that
        > > colors your spirit blue. And no-one wnats to drink copper compounds.
        > >
        > > Only use bicarb on the second (or more) still run, so there can be no
        > > nitrogen compounds in the wash.
        > >
        > > Don't worry about pH in a low-wines run; chasing pH can make you crazy
        > > and mess up a good wash. I use about a quarter cup in a 15-gallon still
        > > charge. It's certainly overkill, but it hurts nothing, and is simply an
        > > excess reagent in the reaction.
        > >
        > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi chaps,
        > > > I've been googling but not finding much info on the effect of bicarb
        > > on the likes of rum and whiskey.
        > > > I understand the benefits with respect to ethyl acetate but should I
        > > be concerned about losing or ruining some of the more desirable
        > > flavours?
        > > >
        > > > and I'm still not quite sure about quantities - should I aim for a
        > > specific pH? does 6 sound right?
        > > > and if so - should I be adjusting with citric acid in order to get a
        > > specific quantity of bicarb in there?
        > > >
        > > > cheers,
        > > > justin
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • tgfoitwoods
        Glen, That might be, but since the reactions are sped up at higher temperatures, I always figured most of what I want to happen will happen during heatup and
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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          Glen,

          That might be, but since the reactions are sped up at higher temperatures, I always figured most of what I want to happen will happen during heatup and distillation. Of course, I've been wrong before.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Glen - BetGear" <glen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          >
          >
          > According to a post I've read somewhere (most likely home distiller), if
          > you're using bicarb, then it should be left in the low wines to infuse for
          > 3-4 days before running through the still.
          >
          >
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          >
          >
          > Glen.
          >
          >
          >
          >----snip----
        • jamesonbeam1
          Another oily alcohol (not really an ester) is Furfural found in the tails that gives rum some if its flavor, according to some souces I have read. JB. ...
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 11, 2010
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            Another oily alcohol (not really an ester) is Furfural found in the
            tails that gives rum some if its flavor, according to some souces I have
            read.

            JB.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Justin,
            >
            > Isobutyl propionate is one of the rum oils, and for the life of me, I
            can't find the other. Sorry.
            >
            > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (evidently simpler than usual)
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster mail@ wrote:
            > >
            > > thanks,
            > > can you name the two esters you're talking about here?
            > > is one Isobutyl Propionate?
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