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strong yeast odor after fermentation

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  • Myrrdin69
    hello everyone, i decided to check out the reflux process for a change. basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume with water. added
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 12, 2010
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      hello everyone,

      i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.

      basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black label) for 48 hr fermention.
      Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5

      after 24hr:
      Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022

      after 48 hrs:
      Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990

      after 72 hr when starting strip run:
      Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985

      run on PDA 2 setup as pot.

      Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
      As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can someone help?

      Thanks in advance

      myrrdin69
    • tgfoitwoods
      ... with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black label) for 48 hr fermention. ... someone help?
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > hello everyone,
        >
        > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
        >
        > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
        with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
        label) for 48 hr fermention.
        > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
        >
        > after 24hr:
        > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
        >
        > after 48 hrs:
        > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
        >
        > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
        > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
        >
        > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
        >
        > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
        > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
        someone help?
        >
        > Thanks in advance
        >
        > myrrdin69
        >
      • tgfoitwoods
        Sorry about fat-fingering the previous! Myrrdin, I ve never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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          Sorry about fat-fingering the previous!

          Myrrdin,

          I've never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I
          use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to make neutral. When you say "yeast
          smell", do you mean it smells like what came out of your Black Label
          packet, which isn't all yeast by any means? I know some turbos cause bad
          flavors when they ferment, but I don't know about Black Label.

          Does anyone else know?

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > hello everyone,
          >
          > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
          >
          > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
          with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
          label) for 48 hr fermention.
          > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
          >
          > after 24hr:
          > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
          >
          > after 48 hrs:
          > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
          >
          > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
          > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
          >
          > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
          >
          > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
          > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
          someone help?
          >
          > Thanks in advance
          >
          > myrrdin69
          >
        • Shot Man
          Hi Myrrdin and Zymurgy Bob, The only time I had a strong yeast smell and taste was my very first batch. It was a Rum wash so almost a sugar wash. I had read
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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            Hi Myrrdin and Zymurgy Bob, 
            The only time I had a strong yeast smell and taste was my very first batch. It was a Rum wash so almost a sugar wash. I had read just dump everything in the fermenter after it fermented. I did and immediately seen all the trub at the bottom pour in with the good stuff on top. Ran it twice and couldn't get the smell and taste out. Now I siphon everything and leave any sloids or different color in the fermenter. That's with Rum, Suger or Corn. Haven't had that problem any more. Maybe your problem or not but what happened to me.
            Have a great day,
            shotman
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:06 PM
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: strong yeast odor after fermentation

             

            Sorry about fat-fingering the previous!

            Myrrdin,

            I've never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I
            use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to make neutral. When you say "yeast
            smell", do you mean it smells like what came out of your Black Label
            packet, which isn't all yeast by any means? I know some turbos cause bad
            flavors when they ferment, but I don't know about Black Label.

            Does anyone else know?

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > hello everyone,
            >
            > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
            >
            > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
            with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
            label) for 48 hr fermention.
            > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
            >
            > after 24hr:
            > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
            >
            > after 48 hrs:
            > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
            >
            > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
            > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
            >
            > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
            >
            > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
            > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
            someone help?
            >
            > Thanks in advance
            >
            > myrrdin69
            >

          • Myrrdin69
            Thanks for your answer. Never had a Problem with Rum, then again I was using a sugar/molasses mixture. Since this wash is supposed to becaome neutral in
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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              Thanks for your answer. Never had a Problem with Rum, then again I was using a sugar/molasses mixture.

              Since this wash is supposed to becaome "neutral" in smell, I just used a pure sugar wash. However now I am experiencing the smell more like fresh baked bread.

              I also waited to end of fermentation - at least i think i did according to my SG readings - and racked the whole thing once. After that and rest period of half a day it was syphened into the SSPot.

              I wish there were some bread ready to eat... ;-)

              myrrdin

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Shot Man" <shotman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Myrrdin and Zymurgy Bob,
              > The only time I had a strong yeast smell and taste was my very first batch. It was a Rum wash so almost a sugar wash. I had read just dump everything in the fermenter after it fermented. I did and immediately seen all the trub at the bottom pour in with the good stuff on top. Ran it twice and couldn't get the smell and taste out. Now I siphon everything and leave any sloids or different color in the fermenter. That's with Rum, Suger or Corn. Haven't had that problem any more. Maybe your problem or not but what happened to me.
              > Have a great day,
              > shotman
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: tgfoitwoods
              > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:06 PM
              > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: strong yeast odor after fermentation
              >
              >
              >
              > Sorry about fat-fingering the previous!
              >
              > Myrrdin,
              >
              > I've never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I
              > use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to make neutral. When you say "yeast
              > smell", do you mean it smells like what came out of your Black Label
              > packet, which isn't all yeast by any means? I know some turbos cause bad
              > flavors when they ferment, but I don't know about Black Label.
              >
              > Does anyone else know?
              >
              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > hello everyone,
              > >
              > > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
              > >
              > > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
              > with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
              > label) for 48 hr fermention.
              > > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
              > >
              > > after 24hr:
              > > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
              > >
              > > after 48 hrs:
              > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
              > >
              > > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
              > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
              > >
              > > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
              > >
              > > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
              > > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
              > someone help?
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance
              > >
              > > myrrdin69
              > >
              >
            • Myrrdin69
              Hi Zymurgy, thanks for your response. I think EC-1118 is the next i will try. This time i prepared 3 batches with the before mentioned Black Label and they all
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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                Hi Zymurgy,

                thanks for your response. I think EC-1118 is the next i will try.

                This time i prepared 3 batches with the before mentioned Black Label and they all smell like bread when starting the run and getting close to foreshots. It is somewhat funny that someone else mentione in the house the smell of fresh baked bread as soon as my setup was at temp to start collecting.
                Even during collection the different collection containers held the smell -some stronger then others, until I decided to pour everything together and wait with separation for the reflux run.

                I am more worried that this starts already during the fermentation process since the wash is not clearing at the end and shows a rather dense light yellow/brown color (reason for racking).

                greetings

                Myrrdin

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sorry about fat-fingering the previous!
                >
                > Myrrdin,
                >
                > I've never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I
                > use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to make neutral. When you say "yeast
                > smell", do you mean it smells like what came out of your Black Label
                > packet, which isn't all yeast by any means? I know some turbos cause bad
                > flavors when they ferment, but I don't know about Black Label.
                >
                > Does anyone else know?
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > hello everyone,
                > >
                > > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
                > >
                > > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
                > with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
                > label) for 48 hr fermention.
                > > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
                > >
                > > after 24hr:
                > > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
                > >
                > > after 48 hrs:
                > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
                > >
                > > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
                > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
                > >
                > > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
                > >
                > > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
                > > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
                > someone help?
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance
                > >
                > > myrrdin69
                > >
                >
              • tgfoitwoods
                Myrrdin, Whatever yeast you use, you need to make sure it gets proper nutrition. That s always important, but never so much so as with a sugar wash, which
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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                  Myrrdin,

                  Whatever yeast you use, you need to make sure it gets proper nutrition.
                  That's always important, but never so much so as with a sugar wash,
                  which basically has zero nutrients. Turbo "yeast" is actually a mixture
                  of some Frankenstein yeast strain and high-powered nutrients, so the
                  nutrient issues shouldn't, in theory, be important.

                  The MUM wash is good, in part, because the yeast is so happily well-fed.
                  While I've not tried it yet, Waldo's JEM wash combines the great
                  nutrition of the MUM wash with the frenetic activity of the energy
                  drink, and should be a roaring success, replacing turbos handily. My
                  neutral carboys are almost empty, so it'll be time for another
                  potstilled sugar was set again and I want to try the JEM wash.

                  Oh, yeah. I never clear my MUM wash, and it tastes great. A strip run, a
                  spirit run with bicarb, and it's sweet and clean.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Zymurgy,
                  >
                  > thanks for your response. I think EC-1118 is the next i will try.
                  >
                  > This time i prepared 3 batches with the before mentioned Black Label
                  and they all smell like bread when starting the run and getting close to
                  foreshots. It is somewhat funny that someone else mentione in the house
                  the smell of fresh baked bread as soon as my setup was at temp to start
                  collecting.
                  > Even during collection the different collection containers held the
                  smell -some stronger then others, until I decided to pour everything
                  together and wait with separation for the reflux run.
                  >
                  > I am more worried that this starts already during the fermentation
                  process since the wash is not clearing at the end and shows a rather
                  dense light yellow/brown color (reason for racking).
                  >
                  > greetings
                  >
                  > Myrrdin
                  >
                  ----snip----
                • Rainero Morgia
                  sometimes  we  might  tend  to  forget the  proper  way  of  cleaning  and  sanitizing  all the  equipment  before  use.  also,  the  smell
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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                    sometimes  we  might  tend  to  forget the  proper  way  of  cleaning  and  sanitizing  all the  equipment  before  use.  also,  the  smell of  bread  could  mean  not  all starch undewent  saccharification,  not  sure  though  if  adding  more  sugar  will  ruin  your  intended sp. gr.....  check  also  if  you  might  have  added  too  much  yeast


                    From: Myrrdin69 <rblindner@...>
                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 4:41:47 PM
                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: strong yeast odor after fermentation

                     

                    Hi Zymurgy,

                    thanks for your response. I think EC-1118 is the next i will try.

                    This time i prepared 3 batches with the before mentioned Black Label and they all smell like bread when starting the run and getting close to foreshots. It is somewhat funny that someone else mentione in the house the smell of fresh baked bread as soon as my setup was at temp to start collecting.
                    Even during collection the different collection containers held the smell -some stronger then others, until I decided to pour everything together and wait with separation for the reflux run.

                    I am more worried that this starts already during the fermentation process since the wash is not clearing at the end and shows a rather dense light yellow/brown color (reason for racking).

                    greetings

                    Myrrdin

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Sorry about fat-fingering the previous!
                    >
                    > Myrrdin,
                    >
                    > I've never had trouble with offensive yeast odors in a sugar wash, but I
                    > use Lalvin EC-1118 in a MUM wash to make neutral. When you say "yeast
                    > smell", do you mean it smells like what came out of your Black Label
                    > packet, which isn't all yeast by any means? I know some turbos cause bad
                    > flavors when they ferment, but I don't know about Black Label.
                    >
                    > Does anyone else know?
                    >
                    > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Myrrdin69" <rblindner@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > hello
                    everyone,
                    > >
                    > > i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.
                    > >
                    > > basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume
                    > with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black
                    > label) for 48 hr fermention.
                    > > Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
                    > >
                    > > after 24hr:
                    > > Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022
                    > >
                    > > after 48 hrs:
                    > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990
                    > >
                    > > after 72 hr when starting strip run:
                    > > Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985
                    > >
                    > > run on PDA 2 setup as pot.
                    > >
                    > > Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal?
                    > > As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can
                    > someone help?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks in advance
                    > >
                    > > myrrdin69
                    > >
                    >


                  • Dave
                    What I can see from your description ________________________________ From: Myrrdin69 To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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                      What I can see from your description  

                      From: Myrrdin69 <rblindner@...>
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:11:02 AM
                      Subject: [new_distillers] strong yeast odor after fermentation

                       

                      hello everyone,

                      i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.

                      basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black label) for 48 hr fermention.
                      Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
                      First thing is your container is too small ,package calls for 25L ,28L would not be a problem.

                      Starting Temp is way to high, I do not pitch the package until the temp gos down to below 80F. This is the only time I check the actual temp of the wash.

                      All you have to do now is keep the surrounding air temp between 72F and 77F (That has to be checked)

                      Forget about 48 Hrs!!!! The wash is going to finish when it ready to finish, most likely, 5 days, it depends on all kinds of variables. When it stops bubbling and is starting to clear its ready. Stick your finger in the wash and taste it, should be like a dry wine.    

                      after 24hr:
                      Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022

                      after 48 hrs:
                      Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990

                      after 72 hr when starting strip run:
                      Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985

                      run on PDA 2 setup as pot. I don't know anything about the PDA 2 ,but why would you set it on pot when you want to reflux? 

                      Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal? The way you did it Yes. 
                      As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can someone help?

                      Take whatever you have now and mix with 50% water  reflux it slowly.

                      I do not know what level you are at with this hobby,there is a lot more information at homedistiller.org re reflux there is a link on this page, read read read,

                      Hope this helps,

                      Dave


                      Thanks in advance

                      myrrdin69


                    • Dave
                      I should have read that closer re stripping run run on PDA 2 setup as pot. I don t know anything about the PDA 2 ,but why would you set it on pot when you want
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 13, 2010
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                        I should have read that closer re stripping run
                        run on PDA 2 setup as pot. I don't know anything about the PDA 2 ,but why would you set it on pot when you want to reflux? 

                        From: Dave <bbmdave@...>
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 12:40:00 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] strong yeast odor after fermentation

                         

                        What I can see from your description  

                        From: Myrrdin69 <rblindner@...>
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:11:02 AM
                        Subject: [new_distillers] strong yeast odor after fermentation

                         

                        hello everyone,

                        i decided to check out the reflux process for a change.

                        basic sugar wash consisted of 7kg sugar made up to 23 l tot volume with water. added for experimention purpose 1 packet turbo yeast (black label) for 48 hr fermention.
                        Starting Temp: 96 deg F, SG 1.102, PH 4.5
                        First thing is your container is too small ,package calls for 25L ,28L would not be a problem.

                        Starting Temp is way to high, I do not pitch the package until the temp gos down to below 80F. This is the only time I check the actual temp of the wash.

                        All you have to do now is keep the surrounding air temp between 72F and 77F (That has to be checked)

                        Forget about 48 Hrs!!!! The wash is going to finish when it ready to finish, most likely, 5 days, it depends on all kinds of variables. When it stops bubbling and is starting to clear its ready. Stick your finger in the wash and taste it, should be like a dry wine.    

                        after 24hr:
                        Temp: 86 deg F SG: 1022

                        after 48 hrs:
                        Temp: 80 deg F, SG 990

                        after 72 hr when starting strip run:
                        Temp: 80 deg F, SG 985

                        run on PDA 2 setup as pot. I don't know anything about the PDA 2 ,but why would you set it on pot when you want to reflux? 

                        Resulting destillate has very strong yeast smell. Is this normal? The way you did it Yes. 
                        As i understand it, even a reflux run might not change this. Can someone help?

                        Take whatever you have now and mix with 50% water  reflux it slowly.

                        I do not know what level you are at with this hobby,there is a lot more information at homedistiller.org re reflux there is a link on this page, read read read,

                        Hope this helps,

                        Dave


                        Thanks in advance

                        myrrdin69



                      • Becool Stayslinky
                        Mr. ZB, You have mentioned a couple of things that I have some curiosity about. I have been doing all wheat mashes for vodka with some fair success lately. I m
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 14, 2010
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                          Mr. ZB,

                          You have mentioned a couple of things that I have some curiosity about.

                          I have been doing all wheat mashes for vodka with some fair success lately. I'm ending up with a clean tasting vodka, and am getting between 7-8 percent at 2 pounds grain/gallon of water. I recently started using EC-1118 (last two batches), and about 4 days into the fermentation, both batches got a significant sulphur smell. I read on the Lallemand site that EC-1118 produces a lot of suplhur under low nutrient conditions, so I added a little DAP to each batch and the sulphur smell went right away and didn't come back. Do you think that the sulphur was due to low nutrient, or some other stressor? Mash temp was around 80 degrees at the time of the sulphur smell. Fermentation took 6 days, and ended at 1.006

                          Has anyone ever tried Lalvin DV10 yeast?

                          The other question is about the bicarb (I'm assuming sodium bicarbonate) in the spirit run: How much do you use and what exactly does it do?

                          Thanks in advance,

                          BC



                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Myrrdin,
                          >
                          > Whatever yeast you use, you need to make sure it gets proper nutrition.
                          > That's always important, but never so much so as with a sugar wash,
                          > which basically has zero nutrients. Turbo "yeast" is actually a mixture
                          > of some Frankenstein yeast strain and high-powered nutrients, so the
                          > nutrient issues shouldn't, in theory, be important.
                          >
                          > The MUM wash is good, in part, because the yeast is so happily well-fed.
                          > While I've not tried it yet, Waldo's JEM wash combines the great
                          > nutrition of the MUM wash with the frenetic activity of the energy
                          > drink, and should be a roaring success, replacing turbos handily. My
                          > neutral carboys are almost empty, so it'll be time for another
                          > potstilled sugar was set again and I want to try the JEM wash.
                          >
                          > Oh, yeah. I never clear my MUM wash, and it tastes great. A strip run, a
                          > spirit run with bicarb, and it's sweet and clean.
                          >
                          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                          >
                          >
                        • tgfoitwoods
                          BC, It s just a guess, but one from a fair amount of experience. I think what you observed with the sulfur (hydrogen sulfide, probably) smell was a great
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 15, 2010
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                            BC,

                            It's just a guess, but one from a fair amount of experience. I think what you observed with the sulfur (hydrogen sulfide, probably) smell was a great lesson in yeast nutrition. With insufficient/incorrect nutrients, you tend toward bad flavors and smells. Fix that and you fixed the smells.

                            Of course, some yeast and worts generate some off smells/tastes in a healthy situation, and this is what lagers and lagering is all about.

                            When a still wash sits, especially when hot, dissociation can form acids, which react with the alcohol to form esters, which are flavor and smell elements of the spirit. The bicarb just raises the pH, and (more or less) stops those acids from forming, and so retards ester formation. If you're making "brown" booze, with ester profiles that you've worked hard to get, bicarb will flush your efforts down the toilet.

                            Bicarb is mostly for vodka runs, and only for the second-or-more (low wines) runs. In many cases raising your pH in a stripping run, with yeast nutrient present, will give you the dreaded "blue ookies", blue copper compounds (Schweizer's reagent) in your spirit. 

                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Becool Stayslinky" <becoolstayslinky@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Mr. ZB,
                            >
                            > You have mentioned a couple of things that I have some curiosity about.
                            >
                            > I have been doing all wheat mashes for vodka with some fair success lately. I'm ending up with a clean tasting vodka, and am getting between 7-8 percent at 2 pounds grain/gallon of water. I recently started using EC-1118 (last two batches), and about 4 days into the fermentation, both batches got a significant sulphur smell. I read on the Lallemand site that EC-1118 produces a lot of suplhur under low nutrient conditions, so I added a little DAP to each batch and the sulphur smell went right away and didn't come back. Do you think that the sulphur was due to low nutrient, or some other stressor? Mash temp was around 80 degrees at the time of the sulphur smell. Fermentation took 6 days, and ended at 1.006
                            >
                            > Has anyone ever tried Lalvin DV10 yeast?
                            >
                            > The other question is about the bicarb (I'm assuming sodium bicarbonate) in the spirit run: How much do you use and what exactly does it do?
                            >
                            > Thanks in advance,
                            >
                            > BC
                            >
                            >
                            ----snip----
                          • Becool Stayslinky
                            Thanks for the reply ZB. I have been thinking that I needed to study up on yeast nutrition and have been meaning to read the Lallemand yeast nutrition guide
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 15, 2010
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                              Thanks for the reply ZB. I have been thinking that I needed to study up on yeast nutrition and have been meaning to read the Lallemand yeast nutrition guide in Harry's library for starters. I've been throwing DAP in at intervals, but not really knowing what I'm doing.

                              Questions: Where you said: "When a still wash sits, especially when hot, dissociation can form acids, which react with the alcohol to form esters, which are flavor and smell elements of the spirit."

                              Are you saying that if I strip a batch and the distillate sits on the shelf for a while, it can degrade from acid in the distillate?

                              Reason I'm asking is that I have to strip three batches to make a spirit run, and it might take me several weeks to get to that point. Should I be adjusting the PH closer to neutral for storage before the first spirit run? I've never checked the PH at this point.

                              Will potassium carbonate do the same thing or does it have to be sodium bicarbonate?

                              After the first spirit run at 190 proof +-, is PH an issue anymore?

                              Lots of questions, thanks for your patience!

                              BC



                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > BC,
                              >
                              > It's just a guess, but one from a fair amount of experience. I think
                              > what you observed with the sulfur (hydrogen sulfide, probably) smell was
                              > a great lesson in yeast nutrition. With insufficient/incorrect
                              > nutrients, you tend toward bad flavors and smells. Fix that and you
                              > fixed the smells.
                              >
                              > Of course, some yeast and worts generate some off smells/tastes in a
                              > healthy situation, and this is what lagers and lagering is all about.
                              >
                              > When a still wash sits, especially when hot, dissociation can form
                              > acids, which react with the alcohol to form esters, which are flavor and
                              > smell elements of the spirit. The bicarb just raises the pH, and (more
                              > or less) stops those acids from forming, and so retards ester formation.
                              > If you're making "brown" booze, with ester profiles that you've worked
                              > hard to get, bicarb will flush your efforts down the toilet.
                              >
                              > Bicarb is mostly for vodka runs, and only for the second-or-more (low
                              > wines) runs. In many cases raising your pH in a stripping run, with
                              > yeast nutrient present, will give you the dreaded "blue ookies", blue
                              > copper compounds (Schweizer's reagent) in your spirit.
                              >
                              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                              >
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