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Re: All Grain Mash plus sugar

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Jerry, As Wal mentions, when enzymes break down the starches in grains, they produce maltose, a disaccharide which contains 2 molecules of glucose that the
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 10, 2010
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      Jerry,

      As Wal mentions,  when enzymes break down the starches in grains, they produce maltose, a disaccharide which contains 2 molecules of glucose that the yeast can breakdown using invertase to digest and produce alchohol.

      When doing non-cook grain femetations with sugar like the UJSSM method,  if you use sucrose, this is a disaccharide containing 1 molecule of glucose and 1 molecule of fructose which the yeast must break down to ferment.

      If you look at the relative sweetness chart below,  fructose has a sweetness index of 173 versus glucosse with a sweetness index of 74.3.  While I started off using the UJSSM and it will produce a passing corn likker, there is still a hint of that sweet taste using cane sugars versus a true full grain mash corn whiskey.

      Now you could try using straight glucose (dextrose) or maltose, but it is way more expensive then cane sugars.

      JB.

      PS> frankly I think with 80 lbs. of grains, you should have ended up with more then just 3/4th of a gallon...

       

      Figure 2: Relative sweetness of sugars and sweeteners.


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
      >
      > Last year I did an all grain bourbon mash. I used feed corn and hand ground it. I used supplier ground malted barley and rye. I cooked the grains to covert the starches. I did not add any sugar.
      >
      > Took me 80+ hours, 80 lbs of grain and ended up with about a 3/4 gallon of some mighty fine 100 proof bourbon. I aged the product for about 3 months and I am happy to say have drank it all. I prefer it to store bought aged bourbon. Now I have a hankering for more.
      >
      > I would like to get a quality product with a bit less work.
      >
      > I was wondering- if I mash the grains the same way as I did last year, then add sugar to increase the alcohol content, will I ruin the flavors of the grains?
      >

    • Jerry McCullough
      I agree with you that I shloud have got more than 3/4 gallon. I had several problems as a direct result of my inexperience.  I think I will do better this
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 11, 2010
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        I agree with you that I shloud have got more than 3/4 gallon. I had several problems as a direct result of my inexperience.  I think I will do better this time around.
         
        Lets say I do a good job of mashing the grains and I end up with for example a 5% potential ABV in the wort. If I were to add dextrose to bring the potential ABV up to 12%, what would I lose?
         
         
        --- On Sun, 10/10/10, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:


        From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: All Grain Mash plus sugar
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 9:14 AM


         




        Jerry,
        As Wal mentions,  when enzymes break down the starches in grains, they produce maltose, a disaccharide which contains 2 molecules of glucose that the yeast can breakdown using invertase to digest and produce alchohol.
        When doing non-cook grain femetations with sugar like the UJSSM method,  if you use sucrose, this is a disaccharide containing 1 molecule of glucose and 1 molecule of fructose which the yeast must break down to ferment.
        If you look at the relative sweetness chart below,  fructose has a sweetness index of 173 versus glucosse with a sweetness index of 74.3.  While I started off using the UJSSM and it will produce a passing corn likker, there is still a hint of that sweet taste using cane sugars versus a true full grain mash corn whiskey.
        Now you could try using straight glucose (dextrose) or maltose, but it is way more expensive then cane sugars.
        JB.
        PS> frankly I think with 80 lbs. of grains, you should have ended up with more then just 3/4th of a gallon...
         


        Figure 2: Relative sweetness of sugars and sweeteners.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
        >
        > Last year I did an all grain bourbon mash. I used feed corn and hand ground it. I used supplier ground malted barley and rye. I cooked the grains to covert the starches. I did not add any sugar.
        >
        > Took me 80+ hours, 80 lbs of grain and ended up with about a 3/4 gallon of some mighty fine 100 proof bourbon. I aged the product for about 3 months and I am happy to say have drank it all. I prefer it to store bought aged bourbon. Now I have a hankering for more.
        >
        > I would like to get a quality product with a bit less work.
        >
        > I was wondering- if I mash the grains the same way as I did last year, then add sugar to increase the alcohol content, will I ruin the flavors of the grains?
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Jerry, A decent conversion of lets say about 75% to 80% of the starches should give you around a 7% ABV fermentation which is about average for an all grain
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 12, 2010
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          Jerry,

          A decent conversion of lets say about 75% to 80% of the starches should give you around a 7% ABV fermentation which is about average for an all grain mash.  You could add some additional dextrose for more yield, but remember - making it too high in gravity will sacrifice some flavors.  Read through http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/39403 for some pointers on mashing techniques.

          JB.


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...> wrote:
          >
          > I agree with you that I shloud have got more than 3/4 gallon. I had several problems as a direct result of my inexperience.  I think I will do better this time around.
          >  
          > Lets say I do a good job of mashing the grains and I end up with for example a 5% potential ABV in the wort. If I were to add dextrose to bring the potential ABV up to 12%, what would I lose?

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