- Hey Geoff,
While I'd always trust Waldo's numbers first, just because of his experience. I tried using a different approach, pulling some very rough numbers out of my...um...imagination.
I'm figuring, very roughly, that the density of grapes is about the density of water, so 1 kilo or 2.2 pounds per liter. That means 30 liters is about 66 pounds. For red wines, vintners figure between 12 and 16 pounds of grapes per gallon of wine, so if I use the average of 12, that's 4.7 gallons of wine from your 30 liters. If I make the wild guess of getting a 12% wine, that could give you maybe 1.4 gallons of 80-proof brandy, and that includes heads, tails, hearts, and foreshots, so it's very optimistic. With careful cuts, you'll get less, but I love making fruit brandies, and they can be very good.
Like Waldo, I really don't like the odds using natural skin yeasts; you're just at the mercy of unkind gods, but if it's really all you can get, you don't have much choice.
Anyway, Waldo says for 5 gallons of wine, you need (average) 38 liters of grapes; I say 30 liters of grapes gives you 4.7 gallons of wine. Because all of our numbers are dark brown and wet, I think we agree beautifully.
Jim, sounds like you're "settin' up and takin' nourishment", as my grandma used to say. Good for that.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
> Hi gang,
> I have access to about 30 litres of small very sweet red /blue/black grapes I don't really know how much as i need to get over to the farm and pick them off a 4 foot high wooden fence well the other half says she will do it for me
> Will there enough to make 5 gallon of wine for making a nice regional brandy and maybe enough left over to make 5 gallons of deep dark red wine by leaving it to ferment on the skins for about one to two weeks and ageing in oak barrel when fermented
> I have only access to bakers yeast would that be okto use? Or would it be better to let let the bloom on the grape ferment it (I know could be a really good wine or could be a really bad wine)
> I need to get moving soon or the birds will have them all
- Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. Well I would call it a red grape. Now from what I've found out these vines are from very old stock, pre-1850 grafted onto disease resistant variants from Italy. What happened was when they imported American Southern State vines as far as I've found out on the net, there was a mite that hitched and piggy backed a ride along with the vines to France, this mite would and did ruin the grape crop and set about attacking and infecting all the old French vines to such an extent that it threatened to wipe out the whole French wine industry, the Government got really scared and had to do something.
They knew the epicentre was in the Dordogne region so the staged a military campaign on the vines it was slash and burn program (roots and all) until they had it killed off to a good raius around the infected area, with a few years quarantine for good measure. Hence all the Walnut recipes in this region.(because that's what the grew as a money crop).
Well a lot of the old farmers kept some of the old vines in their homes and treated them like house plants for years and years (they just couldn't part with them handed them down from father to son) and when the Italian mite resistant vines where imported in. They grafted theirs onto them.
But it has left such a memory on the country people here that sinking all there cash into vine yards was and still is a risky venture. They might plant 2 or 3 acres for their own personal and extended family use. But because the don't have the vast acreage that Bergerac, Bordeaux and other parts of France have they can't get an "Appellation Controlee" which they need to sell it commercially which signifies the plonk is as the stated ABV and has reached the required quality control, colour, taste and vines tested for disease etc. On good years they have more than enough and can get a limited license to sell their excess wine, which if good enough is highly sought after by wine snobs, and it can fetch up to 60 plus Euros a bottle maybe more.
If you haven't figured out I live in the Dordogne region near a wee town called Sarlat that's as close as I'm willing to say.
I reckon I can fill a 30 litre fermenter full up to the very top and that'd be about 30 litre of water with lid on.
Wine press, hmmm any alternatives here? Use a blender, or a paint paddle on drill and squeeze through paint bag mesh like a mash and suspend in covered fermenter bin, yes no? Grabbing at straws here Jim.
--- In email@example.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
> Tis much better to find the varietal yeast for the grape your making
> wine from. Im sure there must be many sources for Lalvin yeasts around
> France. As you know using wild yeast off the grape skins will give you
> a much higher probability of infection. Do not use any campden tablets
> if your going this route, which I would highly not recommend.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "burrows206"
> <jeffrey.burrows@> wrote:
> > Hi gang,
> > I have access to about 30 litres of small very sweet red /blue/black
> grapes I don't really know how much as i need to get over to the farm
> and pick them off a 4 foot high wooden fence well the other half says
> she will do it for me
> > questions
> > Will there enough to make 5 gallon of wine for making a nice regional
> brandy and maybe enough left over to make 5 gallons of deep dark red
> wine by leaving it to ferment on the skins for about one to two weeks
> and ageing in oak barrel when fermented
> > I have only access to bakers yeast would that be okto use? Or would it
> be better to let let the bloom on the grape ferment it (I know could be
> a really good wine or could be a really bad wine)
> > I need to get moving soon or the birds will have them all
> > Geoff
- Hi Guys,While most of my "Brandy" post to Jim was correct, I was wrong about the Italian root resistant stock, fellow forum member "memehlbaum" wrote this and he is quite correct in what he says.(a couple of big unpronounceable words there and my mind kind of glosses over them when I read them,) But bear in mind I read this about 2 years ago and am quoting from aged memory. So thank you again "memehlbaum" it's best to keep these things accurate as other people may quote from my postGeoff"memehlbaum" wroteWhile you are correct that the phylloxera came from America,
the rootstocks they used for grafting onto also came from
America. These rootstocks were resistant because of their
coexistence with said phylloxera. That is what saved the
French wine industry. Lots of articles on the net.
- Hi Bob,I've read your post but I'll get into the meat of it, if and when I get the grapes but thanks for your information and feed back as well.I was brought on the old British Imperial system at school, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweights,(cwts), tons, and inches, links, feet, yards, rod pole or perch,(not often used even then), chains, furlongs, miles, etc.I've always used this Imperial to Metric convertor rhyme "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram" and everyone should know one litre of clean clear water weighs exactly one kilogram and then do your guesstimations from thereGeoff
Then those grapes are probably an older varietal type that was destroyed
during the French wine blight around 1863 that killed off a large part
of the vineyards and ruined the wine industry. Over 40% of the
vineyards were destroyed during a 10 year period. Yes, the solution was
to graft the remaining grapes onto aphid-resistant American vines.
Now as far as alternatives to a wine press, you could go the traditional
route and advertise for a couple of young ladies (I have heard virgins
do best) and put the grapes in a trough and have the ladies stomp on
them with their bare feet. Other then that, the old drill and paint
paddle along with the 5 gallon strainer bag should work.
Now as far as the brandy goes, I wouldn't use your first run stuff for
it. Let it age as a wine. However, you have the option of taking the
grape pomace from your squeezing and reconstitue it with water and
sugar, then referment to make some nice Grappa if you want. There are
many recipes in the archives.
--- In email@example.com, "geoff burrows"
>as far as Brandy
> Hi Jim,
> Thanks for the recipes if the wine tastes good I'm afraid it won't get
I was brought up in conflict. All around me, in the US, were corns, inches, feet, yards, ounces (both Troy and Averdupois), US gallons, furlongs, firkins, and all that stuff, but when I studied the sciences, it was all metric (later to become SI). Because we humans are rational beings, I knew it was only a matter of a short time before the US was all metric. After all, we already had decimal money, so we were halfway there.
And you know how that worked out.
About the same time I was learning that "conventional" current flow, positive to negative, was all a mistake (by Benjamin Franklin), and as soon as we got our wits about us, we'd all agree that real electricity, in the form of electrons, flows from negative to positive. Then we'd be all sorted out.
I carried that vanity around with me for decades, but when I went back to school for an electrical engineering degree, they said, "We don't care about the facts - current flows from positive to negative".
So now, mostly, I just shut up and try to use whatever units fall to hand.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "geoff burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> I've read your post but I'll get into the meat of it, if and when I get the grapes but thanks for your information and feed back as well.
> I was brought on the old British Imperial system at school, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweights,(cwts), tons, and inches, links, feet, yards, rod pole or perch,(not often used even then), chains, furlongs, miles, etc.
> I've always used this Imperial to Metric convertor rhyme "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram" and everyone should know one litre of clean clear water weighs exactly one kilogram and then do your guesstimations from there