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Product yeild

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  • JerryM
    Is 13 liters of 50% abv a sensible yield from an 80 liter sugar wash using acotec turbo yeast? Staring potential alcohol was 14%.
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 8, 2010
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      Is 13 liters of 50% abv a sensible yield from an 80 liter sugar wash using acotec turbo yeast? Staring potential alcohol was 14%.
    • jamesonbeam1
      Welp Jerry, Depends. If you use simple math, 80 liters at 14% will give you 40 liters at 28% or 20 liters at 56% ABV average using a pot still. Now if your
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 8, 2010
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        Welp Jerry,

        Depends. If you use simple math, 80 liters at 14% will give you 40
        liters at 28% or 20 liters at 56% ABV average using a pot still. Now
        if your not including The heads and tails in this figure which can
        account for up around 15% to 20% heads or more and and same for tails
        with 60% to 70% hearts, then it sounds about right. If not, then
        something is wrong.

        JB.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is 13 liters of 50% abv a sensible yield from an 80 liter sugar wash
        using acotec turbo yeast? Staring potential alcohol was 14%.
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Sidenote This is what Tony s calculation for pot still purity comes to for 80 liters at 14% ABV potential so your in the right ball park. If you were using a
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 8, 2010
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          Sidenote

          This is what Tony's calculation for pot still purity comes to for 80 liters at 14% ABV potential so your in the right ball park.  If you were using a reflux, you would get alot less at much higher ABV.

          JB.

          http://homedistiller.org/pot_calc.htm

          Input your Pot still characteristics

          Initial Volume of Wash L
          Alcohol Content % by volume
          Initial Temperature C
          Power during Heat-up W
          Power during Distillation W
          %Internal Reflux %
          Time-step for calculation min


          Change any of these values & see the difference in the table below ...


           


          Results

          Time to Heat up Still contents

          TimeTempCollectedPurityTotal CollectedTotal Purity


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Welp Jerry,
          >
          > Depends. If you use simple math, 80 liters at 14% will give you 40
          > liters at 28% or 20 liters at 56% ABV average using a pot still. Now
          > if your not including The heads and tails in this figure which can
          > account for up around 15% to 20% heads or more and and same for tails
          > with 60% to 70% hearts, then it sounds about right. If not, then
          > something is wrong.
          >
          > JB.
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" jkmccull@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Is 13 liters of 50% abv a sensible yield from an 80 liter sugar wash
          > using acotec turbo yeast? Staring potential alcohol was 14%.
          > >
          >
        • Rainero Morgia
          JB s  calculations  are  right. On  the  same  reference,  the  theoretical yield  of  alcohol  expected  from  a  given  volume  or 
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 8, 2010
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            JB's  calculations  are  right. On  the  same  reference,  the  theoretical yield  of  alcohol  expected  from  a  given  volume  or  weight  of  sugar  is  51%.  In  reality,  getting  45  to  48%  is  very  good  considering  that  you  will not  collect the  cogeners  or  heads  and  tails  as  mentioned.
            My  observation  though  and  please  correct  me   if  I  am  wrong,  is  that  since  you  are  using  a  turbo  yeast ,  you  should  have  a  higher  potential  alcohol  start-up
            of  more  than  14%,  may  be  20%  or  more....if  that  is  the  case  and  going  back  to  the  friendly  calculator  as  shown  by  JB,  then  you  are  getting  less than  what  is  expected.
            Frankly,  i  have  not  used  a  turbo yeast  so  far  but  that's  my  understanding  from  most  of  their  product  claims. I  think  it  depends  also if  its  grain mash  or  fruit  mash  you  are  using,  and  also  on the  type  of  distilling  equipment  you  have.
            The  bottomline,  however,  is  that ;  are  you  satisfied  with  your  final  product ?according   to  your  own  criteria  - aroma,  taste, color  and  cost.....if  not  you  can  always  redistill  the  purity  and  control  the  desired  volume  you  want.
             
               
              --- On Sun, 8/8/10, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

            From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Product yeild
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 5:50 PM

             
            Sidenote
            This is what Tony's calculation for pot still purity comes to for 80 liters at 14% ABV potential so your in the right ball park.  If you were using a reflux, you would get alot less at much higher ABV.
            JB.

            Input your Pot still characteristics

            Initial Volume of Wash L
            Alcohol Content % by volume
            Initial Temperature C
            Power during Heat-up W
            Power during Distillation W
            %Internal Reflux %
            Time-step for calculation min

            Change any of these values & see the difference in the table below ...


             

            Results

            Time to Heat up Still contents

            TimeTempCollectedPurityTotal CollectedTotal Purity


            --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@ ...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Welp Jerry,
            >
            > Depends. If you use simple math, 80 liters at 14% will give you 40
            > liters at 28% or 20 liters at 56% ABV average using a pot still. Now
            > if your not including The heads and tails in this figure which can
            > account for up around 15% to 20% heads or more and and same for tails
            > with 60% to 70% hearts, then it sounds about right. If not, then
            > something is wrong.
            >
            > JB.
            >
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "JerryM" jkmccull@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Is 13 liters of 50% abv a sensible yield from an 80 liter sugar wash
            > using acotec turbo yeast? Staring potential alcohol was 14%.
            > >
            >

          • jamesonbeam1
            Hey Rainero, Correct, theoretical yields and potential ABV are just that. Its very hard to guage exactly what the expected output should be even with a 100
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 8, 2010
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              Hey Rainero,

              Correct, theoretical yields and potential ABV are just that.  Its very hard to guage exactly what the expected output should be even with a 100 percent effecient still, with no leaks.  The most one can say is that his 13 liters are in the general ball park based on the limited description of what he did (frankly, I still think if he had distilled all the alcohol out in the stripping run, down to say 10% ABV or less, it should have been more).

              Its still as you mentioned,  based on the amount of sugars that were added and the amount of conversion (attenuation) to alcohol that is totally dependant on the strain of yeast along with other considerations.  The fact that he used a turbo yeast and "stacked" several packs of it to get to 80 liters might have been a problem due to heat generation.  If he had used the Alcotec 24 hour Turbo, which is advertised to 14% (see below), then it does seem to be again "in the general ball park".

              JB 

               

              Alcotec 24-Hour Turbo Yeast

              Click on above image to view full picture

              Alcotec 24-Hour Turbo Yeast

              Quick Overview

              Alcotec 24 will ferment 13 pounds of normal sugar in a 6.5 gallon solution in just 24 hours. This will produce up to 14% alcohol.

              Product Description

              Alcotec 24 will ferment 13 pounds of normal sugar in a 6.5 gallon solution in just 24 hours. This will produce up to 14% alcohol.


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rainero Morgia <raineromorgia@...> wrote:
              JB's  calculations  are  right. On  the  same  reference,  the  theoretical yield  of  alcohol  expected  from  a  given  volume  or  weight  of  sugar  is  51%.  In  reality,  getting  45  to  48%  is  very  good  considering  that  you  will not  collect the  cogeners  or  heads  and  tails  as  mentioned.
              My  observation  though  and  please  correct  me   if  I  am  wrong,  is  that  since  you  are  using  a  turbo  yeast ,  you  should  have  a  higher  potential  alcohol  start-up
              of  more  than  14%,  may  be  20%  or  more....if  that  is  the  case  and  going  back  to  the  friendly  calculator  as  shown  by  JB,  then  you  are  getting  less than  what  is  expected.
              Frankly,  i  have  not  used  a  turbo yeast  so  far  but  that's  my  understanding  from  most  of  their  product  claims. I  think  it  depends  also if  its  grain mash  or  fruit  mash  you  are  using,  and  also  on the  type  of  distilling  equipment  you  have.
              The  bottomline,  however,  is  that ;  are  you  satisfied  with  your  final  product ?according   to  your  own  criteria  - aroma,  taste, color  and  cost.....if  not  you  can  always  redistill  the  purity  and  control  the  desired  volume  you  want.
            • Jerry McCullough
              The process I used was:   Two 10 gallon sugar washes Each wash at 14% potential alcohol. I used alcotec Turbo yeast on each wash. Did not use any trub. Each
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 9, 2010
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                The process I used was:
                 
                Two 10 gallon sugar washes
                Each wash at 14% potential alcohol.
                I used alcotec Turbo yeast on each wash. Did not use any trub.
                Each wash fermented out in about 4 days.  Final specific gravity was 0.996
                I did separate stripping runs on each wash using a pot still.
                I combined the stripping runs into a single spirit run.
                Diluted with an equal amount of  de-chlorinated tap water.
                I used a reflux still for the spirit run.
                I discarded the first 200 ml of the spirit run.
                I collected 6.5 quarts with ABVs from 96% to about 70%
                I diluted the 6.5 quarts to about 50% abv for the purpose of activated charcoal filtering which is my next step when the charcoal I ordered arrives.
                 
                This is the first time I have ever used Turbo-yeast and probably the last. Baker's yeast and EC-1118 work well for the fermenting and distilling that I do. I have been experimenting with MUM, JEM and other wash recipes that I have got from the archives. Trying to get the processes down pat.
                 
                I still have not been able to pick up the nuances of taste and smell. I am an ex-smoker for the last 10 years. I wonder if my senses are so dull from smoking that I will never get to the point where I do not need a temperature gauge.  I am a lot frustrated on those aspects of the processes.
                 
                I asked my question to get some input from the persons that really know what they are doing. Thanks all for the feedback.
                    
                 

                --- On Sun, 8/8/10, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

                From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Product yeild
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 7:07 PM

                 
                Hey Rainero,
                Correct, theoretical yields and potential ABV are just that.  Its very hard to guage exactly what the expected output should be even with a 100 percent effecient still, with no leaks.  The most one can say is that his 13 liters are in the general ball park based on the limited description of what he did (frankly, I still think if he had distilled all the alcohol out in the stripping run, down to say 10% ABV or less, it should have been more).
                Its still as you mentioned,  based on the amount of sugars that were added and the amount of conversion (attenuation) to alcohol that is totally dependant on the strain of yeast along with other considerations.  The fact that he used a turbo yeast and "stacked" several packs of it to get to 80 liters might have been a problem due to heat generation.  If he had used the Alcotec 24 hour Turbo, which is advertised to 14% (see below), then it does seem to be again "in the general ball park".
                JB 
                 
                Alcotec 24-Hour Turbo Yeast
                http://www.northernbrewer.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/265x/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/a/l/alcotec24.jpg

                Click on above image to view full picture

                Alcotec 24-Hour Turbo Yeast

                Quick Overview

                Alcotec 24 will ferment 13 pounds of normal sugar in a 6.5 gallon solution in just 24 hours. This will produce up to 14% alcohol.

                Product Description

                Alcotec 24 will ferment 13 pounds of normal sugar in a 6.5 gallon solution in just 24 hours. This will produce up to 14% alcohol.

                --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, Rainero Morgia <raineromorgia@ ...> wrote:
                JB's  calculations  are  right. On  the  same  reference,  the  theoretical yield  of  alcohol  expected  from  a  given  volume  or  weight  of  sugar  is  51%.  In  reality,  getting  45  to  48%  is  very  good  considering  that  you  will not  collect the  cogeners  or  heads  and  tails  as  mentioned.
                My  observation  though  and  please  correct  me   if  I  am  wrong,  is  that  since  you  are  using  a  turbo  yeast ,  you  should  have  a  higher  potential  alcohol  start-up
                of  more  than  14%,  may  be  20%  or  more....if  that  is  the  case  and  going  back  to  the  friendly  calculator  as  shown  by  JB,  then  you  are  getting  less than  what  is  expected.
                Frankly,  i  have  not  used  a  turbo yeast  so  far  but  that's  my  understanding  from  most  of  their  product  claims. I  think  it  depends  also if  its  grain mash  or  fruit  mash  you  are  using,  and  also  on the  type  of  distilling  equipment  you  have.
                The  bottomline,  however,  is  that ;  are  you  satisfied  with  your  final  product ?according   to  your  own  criteria  - aroma,  taste, color  and  cost.....if  not  you  can  always  redistill  the  purity  and  control  the  desired  volume  you  want.

              • jamesonbeam1
                Looks like your doing everything right Jerry. Much better to make 2- 10 gallon washes from the Alcotec Turbo then stacking them and making a 20 gallon wash.
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 9, 2010
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                  Looks like your doing everything right Jerry.  Much better to make 2- 10 gallon washes from the Alcotec Turbo then stacking them and making a 20 gallon wash.

                  One of the main reasons I developed the JEM wash was to make a nice simple 16% wash from EC-1118 and trub with a 2.oo dollar can of energy drink and some plant food that will ferment out in 72 hours or less.  Much better then spending the almost 8.00 dollars they are asking for that Alcotec yeast.  You can take the extra 6 bucks or so (more if shipping charges), and buy another 10 to 15 lbs. of sugar with it. ;)

                  Getting down the cuts with taste and smell is something you only get with experience.  Why they pay those master distillers like the Beams to do what they do best.  (Even if they are turn coats and work for Heaven Hill Distillers now,  instead of Jim Beam lol).

                  JB.


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The process I used was:
                  >  
                  > Two 10 gallon sugar washes
                  > Each wash at 14% potential alcohol.
                  > I used alcotec Turbo yeast on each wash. Did not use any trub.
                  > Each wash fermented out in about 4 days.  Final specific gravity was 0.996
                  > I did separate stripping runs on each wash using a pot still.
                  > I combined the stripping runs into a single spirit run.
                  > Diluted with an equal amount of  de-chlorinated tap water.
                  > I used a reflux still for the spirit run.
                  > I discarded the first 200 ml of the spirit run.
                  > I collected 6.5 quarts with ABVs from 96% to about 70%
                  > I diluted the 6.5 quarts to about 50% abv for the purpose of activated charcoal filtering which is my next step when the charcoal I ordered arrives.
                  >  
                  > This is the first time I have ever used Turbo-yeast and probably the last. Baker's yeast and EC-1118 work well for the fermenting and distilling that I do. I have been experimenting with MUM, JEM and other wash recipes that I have got from the archives. Trying to get the processes down pat.
                  >  
                  > I still have not been able to pick up the nuances of taste and smell. I am an ex-smoker for the last 10 years. I wonder if my senses are so dull from smoking that I will never get to the point where I do not need a temperature gauge.  I am a lot frustrated on those aspects of the processes.
                  >  
                  > I asked my question to get some input from the persons that really know what they are doing. Thanks all for the feedback.

                • tgfoitwoods
                  Jerry, If you really are unable to taste and smell the difference in fractions, there s still a fun (and pretty reliable) way to make the cuts. Collect the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 9, 2010
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                    Jerry,

                    If you really are unable to taste and smell the difference in fractions,
                    there's still a fun (and pretty reliable) way to make the cuts. Collect
                    the distillate in perhaps 10 smaller containers, labeling each with the
                    number (1 through 10 in this case), head temperature range for that
                    sample, and %ABV for that sample (if you can).

                    Invite some friends over. Explain to them that potstill output changes
                    continuously during a run, and that the sample taste progression will go
                    from hot and solventy, through lovely and smooth, to the off-tasting
                    "wet cardboard".

                    Take a 5 or 10 ml sample of each fraction, starting with 1, and dilute
                    it to drinking proof (I usually use 80 - see the dilution formula
                    below), and put just a taste in each guest's glass (snifters work best).
                    Let everyone sniff, snort, and slurp the samples, and then write down
                    the results. Rinse the snifters and repeat with fraction 2. Support
                    discussion of flavor notes.

                    When you are finished, throw everything they don't like in the feints
                    carboy, blend the rest to the desired drinking proof, and walk away
                    smiling. Not only is it a bunch of fun, but you'll be amazed by how much
                    the tasters agree, especially by the end.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                    *******************************************
                    Booze-blender's Formula - use a hypodermic syringe to measure ml's
                    (cc's)

                    a is amount of liquor to be blended (any units)
                    b is amount of water to be added (same units)
                    O is original concentration of EtOH (from 0.00 to 1.00, or you can use
                    percent)
                    F is final concentration of blend (whatever you did for "O")

                    Formula b=a(O-F)/F
                    *************************************************

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    ----snip----
                    > I still have not been able to pick up the nuances of taste and smell.
                    I am an ex-smoker for the last 10 years. I wonder if my senses are so
                    dull from smoking that I will never get to the point where I do not
                    need a temperature gauge.  I am a lot frustrated on those
                    aspects of the processes.
                    > Â
                    ----snip----
                  • Tom
                    JB, I have a question regarding your JEM wash. I have made a few of them. When I finish batching, the pH is typically 5.0. The fermentation kicks off
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 10, 2010
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                      JB,

                      I have a question regarding your JEM wash. I have made a few of them. When I finish batching, the pH is typically 5.0. The fermentation kicks off rapidly and the pH begins to drop, as is typical with fermentation. I add potassuim carbonate as necessary (usually on a daily basis) to maintain a pH of 4.0 to 4.5. I usually end up with 15.5% potential alcohol and a pH of 4.5. My reasoning is that without the addition of the potassium carbonate, the pH can drop to such a point that the yeast will die. Should I be adding the potassium carbonate or should I just let the pH drop?

                      Thanks in advance for your help.

                      Cheers,

                      Tom

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Looks like your doing everything right Jerry. Much better to make 2- 10
                      > gallon washes from the Alcotec Turbo then stacking them and making a 20
                      > gallon wash.
                      >
                      > One of the main reasons I developed the JEM wash was to make a nice
                      > simple 16% wash from EC-1118 and trub with a 2.oo dollar can of energy
                      > drink and some plant food that will ferment out in 72 hours or less.
                      > Much better then spending the almost 8.00 dollars they are asking for
                      > that Alcotec yeast. You can take the extra 6 bucks or so (more if
                      > shipping charges), and buy another 10 to 15 lbs. of sugar with it. [;)]
                      >
                      > Getting down the cuts with taste and smell is something you only get
                      > with experience. Why they pay those master distillers like the Beams to
                      > do what they do best. (Even if they are turn coats and work for Heaven
                      > Hill Distillers now, instead of Jim Beam lol).
                      >
                      > JB.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The process I used was:
                      > > Â
                      > > Two 10 gallon sugar washes
                      > > Each wash at 14% potential alcohol.
                      > > I used alcotec Turbo yeast on each wash. Did not use any trub.
                      > > Each wash fermented out in about 4 days.  Final specific
                      > gravity was 0.996
                      > > I did separate stripping runs on each wash using a pot still.
                      > > I combined the stripping runs into a single spirit run.
                      > > Diluted with an equal amount of de-chlorinated tap water.
                      > > I used a reflux still for the spirit run.
                      > > I discarded the first 200 ml of the spirit run.
                      > > I collected 6.5 quarts with ABVs from 96% to about 70%
                      > > I diluted the 6.5 quarts to about 50% abv for the purpose of
                      > activated charcoal filtering which is my next step when the charcoal I
                      > ordered arrives.
                      > > Â
                      > > This is the first time I have ever used Turbo-yeast and probably the
                      > last. Baker's yeast and EC-1118 work well for the fermenting and
                      > distilling that I do. IÂ have been experimenting with MUM, JEM and
                      > other wash recipes that I have got from the archives. Trying to get
                      > the processes down pat.
                      > > Â
                      > > I still have not been able to pick up the nuances of taste and smell.
                      > I am an ex-smoker for the last 10 years. I wonder if my senses are so
                      > dull from smoking that I will never get to the point where I do not
                      > need a temperature gauge.  I am a lot frustrated on those
                      > aspects of the processes.
                      > > Â
                      > > I asked my question to get some input from the persons that really
                      > know what they are doing. Thanks all for the feedback.
                      >
                    • Tom
                      JB, In my earlier posting, I intended to reference potassium bicarbonate in all instances. Sorry for not proof reading before sending, Tom ... When I finish
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 10, 2010
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                        JB,

                        In my earlier posting, I intended to reference potassium bicarbonate in all instances.  Sorry for not proof reading before sending,

                        Tom


                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > JB,
                        >
                        > I have a question regarding your JEM wash. I have made a few of them. When I finish batching, the pH is typically 5.0. The fermentation kicks off rapidly and the pH begins to drop, as is typical with fermentation. I add potassuim bicarbonate as necessary (usually on a daily basis) to maintain a pH of 4.0 to 4.5. I usually end up with 15.5% potential alcohol and a pH of 4.5. My reasoning is that without the addition of the potassium bicarbonate, the pH can drop to such a point that the yeast will die. Should I be adding the potassium bicarbonate or should I just let the pH drop?
                        >
                        > Thanks in advance for your help.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Tom
                        >
                        > --- SNIP

                      • jamesonbeam1
                        Hi Tom, Creation of additional acids in normal in fermentations. My JEM washes start off at around 5.4 pH but never have dropped below 4.0 after completion.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 11, 2010
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                          Hi Tom,

                          Creation of additional acids in normal in fermentations. My JEM washes
                          start off at around 5.4 pH but never have dropped below 4.0 after
                          completion. While yeasts we use grow best between 4.0 to 6.0 pH and can
                          withstand acidic environments down to 3.0, wine makers make a point of
                          acidifying their musts to below 4.0 during the secondary fermentation to
                          avoid infections since wines can sit for 6 months to a year or more
                          before bottling.

                          During my testing of the JEM wash, I used the same batch of EC-1118
                          trub about 20 times without replacement, both for JEM and then took some
                          to make some rum batches with molasses. Never once was there any signs
                          of the yeast dying. Let me know your exact ingredients your using and
                          what type of energy drink. First time I've heard of this.

                          JB.


                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > JB,
                          >
                          > In my earlier posting, I intended to reference potassium bicarbonate
                          in
                          > all instances. Sorry for not proof reading before sending,
                          >
                          > Tom
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" tomhawk412@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > JB,
                          > >
                          > > I have a question regarding your JEM wash. I have made a few of
                          them.
                          > When I finish batching, the pH is typically 5.0. The fermentation
                          kicks
                          > off rapidly and the pH begins to drop, as is typical with
                          fermentation.
                          > I add potassuim bicarbonate as necessary (usually on a daily basis) to
                          > maintain a pH of 4.0 to 4.5. I usually end up with 15.5% potential
                          > alcohol and a pH of 4.5. My reasoning is that without the addition of
                          > the potassium bicarbonate, the pH can drop to such a point that the
                          > yeast will die. Should I be adding the potassium bicarbonate or should
                          I
                          > just let the pH drop?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks in advance for your help.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > >
                          > > Tom
                          > >
                          > > --- SNIP
                          >
                        • Tom
                          JB, My recipe is as follows: 12 pounds white sugar 12 cups water 1/2 cup lemon juice Mix all above ingredients and simmer for 30 minutes to invert sugar. Add
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 11, 2010
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                            JB,

                            My recipe is as follows:

                            12 pounds white sugar
                            12 cups water
                            1/2 cup lemon juice

                            Mix all above ingredients and simmer for 30 minutes to invert sugar. Add to sanitized primary fermenter and add water to bring up to 5 gallons. Aerate 4 hours with aquarium pump and air stone, bubbling air through 94% ABV alcohol to sterilize. Add one (1) 12 ounce can of Red Bull energy drink and two (2) tablespoons of Miracle Gro 24-8-16. At 80 degrees F, add trub from previous batch. Original gravity 1.113, pH 5.0, potential alcohol 15.5%. The fermentation is active after 8 hours.

                            I add potassium bicarbonate on a dialy basis when the pH drops to 4.0 or less. During the last two (2) fermentations I added a total of nine (9) teaspoons of potassium bicarbonate to each batch. Both of the batches ended up at about 4.5 pH and a specific gravity of 0.992.

                            Please suggest improvements.

                            Thanks in advance for your help,

                            Tom

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Tom,
                            >
                            > Creation of additional acids in normal in fermentations. My JEM washes start off at around 5.4 pH but never have dropped below 4.0 after completion. While yeasts we use grow best between 4.0 to 6.0 pH and can withstand acidic environments down to 3.0, wine makers make a point of acidifying their musts to below 4.0 during the secondary fermentation to avoid infections since wines can sit for 6 months to a year or more before bottling.
                            >
                            > During my testing of the JEM wash, I used the same batch of EC-1118 trub about 20 times without replacement, both for JEM and then took some to make some rum batches with molasses. Never once was there any signs of the yeast dying. Let me know your exact ingredients your using and what type of energy drink. First time I've heard of this.
                            >
                            > JB.
                            >
                            >
                            > SNIP
                          • jamesonbeam1
                            Tom, Sounds like your doing evrything right. Might want to try a can of Rockstar instead of Red Bull. Do me a favor though, Take about a gallon out of the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 12, 2010
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                              Tom,

                              Sounds like your doing evrything right. Might want to try a can of
                              Rockstar instead of Red Bull. Do me a favor though, Take about a
                              gallon out of the next JEM fermetation and let it fermement naturally
                              without any adding any Sodium Bicabonate and tell me what the ending pH
                              is. About the only way I can figure out why your think your dropping
                              so low. Never has happened to my washes.

                              JB.


                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > JB,
                              >
                              > My recipe is as follows:
                              >
                              > 12 pounds white sugar
                              > 12 cups water
                              > 1/2 cup lemon juice
                              >
                              > Mix all above ingredients and simmer for 30 minutes to invert sugar.
                              Add to sanitized primary fermenter and add water to bring up to 5
                              gallons. Aerate 4 hours with aquarium pump and air stone, bubbling air
                              through 94% ABV alcohol to sterilize. Add one (1) 12 ounce can of Red
                              Bull energy drink and two (2) tablespoons of Miracle Gro 24-8-16. At 80
                              degrees F, add trub from previous batch. Original gravity 1.113, pH 5.0,
                              potential alcohol 15.5%. The fermentation is active after 8 hours.
                              >
                              > I add potassium bicarbonate on a dialy basis when the pH drops to 4.0
                              or less. During the last two (2) fermentations I added a total of nine
                              (9) teaspoons of potassium bicarbonate to each batch. Both of the
                              batches ended up at about 4.5 pH and a specific gravity of 0.992.
                              >
                              > Please suggest improvements.
                              >
                              > Thanks in advance for your help,
                              >
                              > Tom
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
                              wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Tom,
                              > >
                              > > Creation of additional acids in normal in fermentations. My JEM
                              washes start off at around 5.4 pH but never have dropped below 4.0 after
                              completion. While yeasts we use grow best between 4.0 to 6.0 pH and can
                              withstand acidic environments down to 3.0, wine makers make a point of
                              acidifying their musts to below 4.0 during the secondary fermentation to
                              avoid infections since wines can sit for 6 months to a year or more
                              before bottling.
                              > >
                              > > During my testing of the JEM wash, I used the same batch of EC-1118
                              trub about 20 times without replacement, both for JEM and then took some
                              to make some rum batches with molasses. Never once was there any signs
                              of the yeast dying. Let me know your exact ingredients your using and
                              what type of energy drink. First time I've heard of this.
                              > >
                              > > JB.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > SNIP
                              >
                            • Tom
                              JB, I will do as you asked and will report on the results. If I use Rockstar, which one should I use and what volume should I use (that stuff comes in several
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 12, 2010
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                                JB,

                                I will do as you asked and will report on the results. If I use Rockstar, which one should I use and what volume should I use (that stuff comes in several sized cans)? Most of the RS stuff I have seen appears to be flavored stuff of some sort.

                                How low can the pH drop during fermentation of your JEM wash without risking damage to the yeast. In my first batch I used two (2) packages of EC-1118. In the following batches I recycled the trub.

                                Tom

                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Tom,
                                >
                                > Sounds like your doing evrything right. Might want to try a can of
                                > Rockstar instead of Red Bull. Do me a favor though, Take about a
                                > gallon out of the next JEM fermetation and let it fermement naturally
                                > without any adding any Sodium Bicabonate and tell me what the ending pH
                                > is. About the only way I can figure out why your think your dropping
                                > so low. Never has happened to my washes.
                                >
                                > JB.
                                >
                                >
                                > SNIP
                                > >
                                >
                              • jamesonbeam1
                                Hi Tom, I have heard yeasts can withstand pH levels as low as 2.0 from some of the knowegable ones around like Dr. MB Raines, but again, have never had a JEM
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 12, 2010
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                                  Hi Tom,

                                  I have heard yeasts can withstand pH levels as low as 2.0 from some of the knowegable ones around like Dr. MB Raines, but again, have never had a JEM wash go below 4.0.   The reason I suggest Rock star is that of the several brands of energy drinks tested, it worked the best and has some of the most amounts of amino acids, lipids, fats, vitamins and other nutrients.  The nutrients in the vanilla version I used are shown below.  You can also check out http://www.screamingenergy.com/energy_drinks.php?i=1 for 240 different energy drinks and their ingredients and review and check out the the orginial thread on this subject - see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/37645  One can of the roasted vanilla Rock Star works the nuts.

                                  JB.

                                  "As mentioned before, Red Bull works very well, but I have had excellent  sucess with "Rock Star Roasted Vanilla".  This contains: 

                                  Active Ingredients:  (what to look for is in bold)
                                  Mg/% USRDA per serving(whichever are listed on the can) per serving (2 servings in this can) of the following: Fat 1.5g/2%, carbohydrates 7g/2%, protein 3g/6%, vitamin B3 20mg/100%, vitamin B5 10mg/100%, vitamin B6 2mg/100%, vitamin B12 6mcg/100%, calcium 60mg/6%, potassium 230mg/7%, phosphorous 83mg/8%, taurine 1g, ginkgo biloba leaf extract 150mg, caffeine 120mg, guarana 25mg, inositol 25mg, l-carnitine 25mg, panax ginseng extract 25mg, milk thistle extract 20mg.

                                  http://www.screamingenergy.com/energy_drinks.php?i=2  contains a listing of  240 Energy Drinks and their ingredients, so depending on where you live, you should have no problem finding several brands.  The average prices run around 2.oo US and less if you buy in 4, 6 or 12 packs.  Since you will be re-using the EC-1118 yeast, this is still far cheaper then any single use Turbo yeast packet."


                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > JB,
                                  >
                                  > I will do as you asked and will report on the results. If I use Rockstar, which one should I use and what volume should I use (that stuff comes in several sized cans)? Most of the RS stuff I have seen appears to be flavored stuff of some sort.
                                  >
                                  > How low can the pH drop during fermentation of your JEM wash without risking damage to the yeast. In my first batch I used two (2) packages of EC-1118. In the following batches I recycled the trub.
                                  >
                                  > Tom
                                • jamesonbeam1
                                  Hint, If you aerate the wash after the yeast has been pitched, instead of before you will find some interesting results. JB. ... had ... some ... below.
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 12, 2010
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                                    Hint,

                                    If you aerate the wash after the yeast has been pitched, instead of
                                    before you will find some interesting results.

                                    JB.


                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi Tom,
                                    >
                                    > I have heard yeasts can withstand pH levels as low as 2.0 from some of
                                    > the knowegable ones around like Dr. MB Raines, but again, have never
                                    had
                                    > a JEM wash go below 4.0. The reason I suggest Rock star is that of the
                                    > several brands of energy drinks tested, it worked the best and has
                                    some
                                    > of the most amounts of amino acids, lipids, fats, vitamins and other
                                    > nutrients. The nutrients in the vanilla version I used are shown
                                    below.
                                    _____snip
                                  • Tom
                                    JB, Thanks for your help. I m going to give it a shot! Cheers, Tom SNIP
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 12, 2010
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                                      JB,

                                      Thanks for your help. I'm going to give it a shot!

                                      Cheers,

                                      Tom

                                      SNIP
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