Re: [new_distillers] Re: I Need Help (again)
- blue distillates can only result from the reaction of copper and ammonia gas...yeasts, nutrients, DAPs,sulfites, normally contain ammonium salts and are quite stable when pH is below 4.5...but as it approaches neutral it readily becomes gas....others claim that you will actually start getting ammonia gas at pH of 4.75 and above... this gas will react and corrode the copper resulting to a blue color.... as a rule of thumb add your potassium bicarbonate on a stripped wash and never on primary fermentation as potassium bicarbonate will raise your pH and might corrode the copper....pH adjustment or buffering is hard to master and its not merely pH paper or pH meter or adding alkali or acid....especiallly for new distillers like us.rainer
--- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom <tomhawk412@...> wrote:
From: Tom <tomhawk412@...>
Subject: [new_distillers] Re: I Need Help (again)
Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 1:41 AMJB,
I did follow the instructions and add lemmon juice during the sugar conversion. I just checked my log book (indespensible) and can report the following: The initial pH of wash #1 was 5.12 and #2 was 5.30. I corrected the pH during fermentation on a daily basis to maintain 4.0 to 4.5 by adding potassium bicarbonate. When batch #1 (5 gallons) was finished its pH was 4.45 with a SPG of 0.992; the pH of batch #2 (5 gallons) was 4.77 and the SPG was 0.993. The first day's product (both batches were combined for one run) was sweeeeeet! The second day's product (after I had to shut down overnight) was blue!
From now on, I'll never interrupt a run.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
> Welp ZB,
> Again, Im just guessing that something in the wine might have caused
> those odors if Tom's still was clean.
> As far as the pH of a JEM wash, if he had followed the directions and
> added lemon juice whilst inverting the sugars, it would have come out
> around a 5.4 to 5.8 pH which would have dropped even more during
> fermentation. Remember in Mason's MUM wash, he uses tomato paste to
> accomplish that.
> But it does seem strange that several members over the past several
> years seem to be getting blue distillate when re-starting a distillation
> the next day. The only execption I remember was when a newbie tried to
> use about 1.4 grams of DAP per liter of fermentation which of course
> caused Schweizer's reagent. *note - that would be almost an ounce of
> DAP in a 5 gallon wash lol. Also if Tom used the correct amount of
> plant food, it should not have caused that reaction in a single run, but
> if left overnight - there might have been enough time for the reaction
> to take place from the vapors and liquids left in the head.
> --- In email@example.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@>
> > Interesting, Waldo,
> > I've never heard the part about interrupted runs (distillus
> > interruptus?) and the blue ookies, but it makes sense. If I remember
> > chemistry correctly, Schweizer's reagent is only formed at all if the
> > wash is basic. If Tom has to halt his runs very often, maybe dropping
> > the wash pH to, say, 5, would allow him to avoid "feeling blue" even
> > with an interrupted run.
> > Have you ever tested the pH of your JEM wash?
> > I'm still stumped by the offensive nose.
> > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > YWV. However, this is the second or third time I have heard of
> > > producing blue distillate after shutting down and restarting the
> > > day. What happens is that any vapors and liquid, rich in that
> > ammoium
> > > based nitrogen with sit in the copper parts of your still and cause
> > this
> > > chemical reaction over that time period. Tis always better to do a
> > > complete run thru or if you have to stop, take the head off and
> > > out well before restarting.
> > >
> > > JB.
Thanks for the information. I was adding Potassium bicarbonate to the wort as it progressed through fermentation because the pH was dropping like a stone. I was afraid that the yeast would die due to the increased acidity.
There is your problem, don't add Bicarb to your wash. If you do, well, you now know what happens.
In other words, set the ideal starting Ph and don't fool with it.
I was adding Potassium bicarbonate to the wort as
it progressed through fermentation
Ps. Im sure Harry spoken about the over use of buffers?