Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [new_distillers] Re: Dumb Question

Expand Messages
  • Royce Thigpen
    Thanks for the response.  I am doing a sour mash recipe and intend to set it up in a small keg for some time to age.  Just didn t want to end up with a lamp
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 7 10:16 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks for the response.  I am doing a sour mash recipe and intend to set it up in a small keg for some time to age.  Just didn't want to end up with a lamp stand later.  It is of medium char so I asume it will come out with a light color.  Maybe.  By the way, I do own some dark oak chips also.


      From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 5:25:21 PM
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Dumb Question

       

      Not really a dumb question Royce,

      While Federal law requires that our Bourbon (America's Named Whiskey), can only be aged in New charred American Oak barrels a single time for a minumum of 2 years, these barrels are then shipped all over the world to be used again and again.

      There are many instances where various liquors are aged in these second hand barrels such as rums and the various whisk(e)ys made in Ireland and Scotland.  Rum makers in the Carribean use these barrels for some of the colored rums along with other types of liquors made in Europe... 

      Calvados uses French oak toasted barrels which, for the good brands, are transferred to older sherry barrels for further aging.  If you look up the solera process of aging, this type of process calls for a continuous flow of product over the years from 1 barrel to another (usually into consecutive older ones.

      But it depends on what your making and how much of the charred flavors versus toasted flavors you want in your product.  For example clear liquors that are aged use clear woods or barrels that are coated in paraffin or even steel drums such as kirsch is.  Im sure Wal can give many other examples.

      A old trick if using an old barrel when you want more of the charred or toasted flavors in your distilllate is to char some new oak chips (or even other hard woods for a different character) and add them to your old barrel.  Depending on what your making determines the amount of toasting or char you want for the various flavors.  See chart below Below.

      JB.

      User avatar


       


       
       
       
       
       
      --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Can a wooden keg be used more that once for ageing with the same effect?
      >

    • jamesonbeam1
      Sidenote on aging Royce, The other part to the equation is that the number of times the barrel is used, the longer it will take the distillates to soak up the
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 7 10:47 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Sidenote on aging Royce,

        The other part to the equation is that the number of times the barrel is
        used, the longer it will take the distillates to soak up the flavors.
        This is why long aging liquors are sometimes transferred to older
        barrels. Sorry had just posted this earlier before you sent this.

        JB.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Thanks for the response. I am doing a sour mash recipe and intend
        to set it up
        > in a small keg for some time to age. Just didn't want to end up
        with a lamp
        > stand later. It is of medium char so I asume it will come out
        with a light
        > color. Maybe. By the way, I do own some dark oak chips also.
      • Royce Thigpen
        Thanks.  My wife has informed me that she wants to age wine later.  I guess I now have to learn how to do that! ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 7 11:02 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks.  My wife has informed me that she wants to age wine later.  I guess I now have to learn how to do that!


          From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 1:47:57 PM
          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Dumb Question

           

          Sidenote on aging Royce,

          The other part to the equation is that the number of times the barrel is
          used, the longer it will take the distillates to soak up the flavors.
          This is why long aging liquors are sometimes transferred to older
          barrels. Sorry had just posted this earlier before you sent this.

          JB.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@...>
          wrote:

          >
          > Thanks for the response. I am doing a sour mash recipe and intend
          to set it up
          > in a small keg for some time to age. Just didn't want to end up
          with a lamp
          > stand later. It is of medium char so I asume it will come out
          with a light
          > color. Maybe. By the way, I do own some dark oak chips also.


        • waljaco
          There is more oaked wine than oak barrels available. Anyway winweries only keep them for 3 years - expensive way to add oak flavor! wal
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 8 5:28 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            There is more oaked wine than oak barrels available. Anyway winweries only keep them for 3 years - expensive way to add oak flavor!
            wal

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks.  My wife has informed me that she wants to age wine later.  I guess I
            > now have to learn how to do that!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 1:47:57 PM
            > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Dumb Question
            >
            >  
            > Sidenote on aging Royce,
            >
            > The other part to the equation is that the number of times the barrel is
            > used, the longer it will take the distillates to soak up the flavors.
            > This is why long aging liquors are sometimes transferred to older
            > barrels. Sorry had just posted this earlier before you sent this.
            >
            > JB.
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks for the response. I am doing a sour mash recipe and intend
            > to set it up
            > > in a small keg for some time to age. Just didn't want to end up
            > with a lamp
            > > stand later. It is of medium char so I asume it will come out
            > with a light
            > > color. Maybe. By the way, I do own some dark oak chips also.
            >
          • jamesonbeam1
            Royce, Thats a piece of cake compared to aging liquors. Depending on what type of wine your making, in your secondary fermenter (usually a 5 gallon glass
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 8 9:37 AM
            • 0 Attachment

              Royce,

              Thats a piece of cake compared to aging liquors.  Depending on what type of wine your making, in your secondary fermenter (usually a 5 gallon glass carboy),  just add a teaspoon or so of tannin powders (available from your wine maker supply) and some oak chips (toasted if you want more flavors).

              Let it sit for a year or so before bottling and make sure you rack it off the lees every few months or so if they build up.

              JB.

              User avatar

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
              >
              > There is more oaked wine than oak barrels available. Anyway winweries only keep them for 3 years - expensive way to add oak flavor!
              > wal
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen fireside58@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks.  My wife has informed me that she wants to age wine later.  I guess I
              > > now have to learn how to do that!

            • thursty2
              We visited a maker of home market Port barrels in the Barossa region of South Australia last year. The maker said they generally prefer to make them from
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 11 3:55 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                We visited a maker of home market Port barrels in the Barossa region of South Australia last year. The maker said they generally prefer to make them from pre-used wine barrels. He said that the flavours absorbed by the oak are imparted to the port.

                On a recent trip down through the Margaret River region in Western Australia, I was given a "dry" wine barrel. I dismantled it so that I could transport it back to Perth in our caravan. I crosscut one of the staves into 1" strips on my bandsaw then chopped them into pieces small enough to fit through the neck of a 1.75l Jack Daniels bottle which I then filled the bottle with uncut (93%) spirit. Within days the colour had changed dramatically to a golden caramel, and the oak could be detected in tasting.

                I intend to experiment with cutting/blending and hopefully will come up with a palatable oaked product.

                --------------------------------

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@...> wrote:
                >
                > Can a wooden keg be used more that once for ageing with the same effect?
                >
              • mav
                I m feeling going off topic here. thursty2, that barrel you got from the Barossa, can I ask how much you paid for it and was it a French oak barrel? Where I m
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 11 7:06 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm feeling going off topic here.

                  thursty2, that barrel you got from the Barossa, can I ask how much you paid for it and was it a French oak barrel?

                  Where I'm at, the local Piss shop is selling used Red port or sweet French Oak red wine barrels, big barrels, which come from the Barossa Valley).

                  These are big barrels, about 200 Liters I think, they about the same size as a 44 gallon Drum.

                  I think what I'm asking is, do you think $130 AUD per French barrel worth while?

                  Cheers
                  Marc

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > We visited a maker of home market Port barrels in the Barossa region of South Australia last year. The maker said they generally prefer to make them from pre-used wine barrels. He said that the flavours absorbed by the oak are imparted to the port.
                  >
                  > On a recent trip down through the Margaret River region in Western Australia, I was given a "dry" wine barrel. I dismantled it so that I could transport it back to Perth in our caravan. I crosscut one of the staves into 1" strips on my bandsaw then chopped them into pieces small enough to fit through the neck of a 1.75l Jack Daniels bottle which I then filled the bottle with uncut (93%) spirit. Within days the colour had changed dramatically to a golden caramel, and the oak could be detected in tasting.
                  >
                  > I intend to experiment with cutting/blending and hopefully will come up with a palatable oaked product.
                  >
                  > --------------------------------
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Can a wooden keg be used more that once for ageing with the same effect?
                  > >
                  >
                • thursty2
                  Mav, I got the barrel for free - from a Margaret River winery in WA. As a barrel it was no longer serviceable, it had dried out and the would no longer hold
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 11 6:51 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mav,

                    I got the barrel for free - from a Margaret River winery in WA. As a barrel it was no longer serviceable, it had dried out and the would no longer hold liquids. But when I cut into a stave, I could see that the oak had barely been penetrated by the red wine it held, and it smelled good. Apparently some vineyards use the barrels first for white wines, then the reds.

                    $130 for a used oak barrel is about the go. A half one would cost around $80 from a plant nursery. If all you want is some oak to experiment with, ask the plonk shop where they get them. Tell them you just want some staves to do some woodwork. They may put you in touch with their supplier.

                    Sorry I don't know if mine is French or American. I do know that French is 3 times more expensive (as a new barrel) than American oak.


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mav" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm feeling going off topic here.
                    >
                    > thursty2, that barrel you got from the Barossa, can I ask how much you paid for it and was it a French oak barrel?
                    >
                    > Where I'm at, the local Piss shop is selling used Red port or sweet French Oak red wine barrels, big barrels, which come from the Barossa Valley).
                    >
                    > These are big barrels, about 200 Liters I think, they about the same size as a 44 gallon Drum.
                    >
                    > I think what I'm asking is, do you think $130 AUD per French barrel worth while?
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    > Marc
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > We visited a maker of home market Port barrels in the Barossa region of South Australia last year. The maker said they generally prefer to make them from pre-used wine barrels. He said that the flavours absorbed by the oak are imparted to the port.
                    > >
                    > > On a recent trip down through the Margaret River region in Western Australia, I was given a "dry" wine barrel. I dismantled it so that I could transport it back to Perth in our caravan. I crosscut one of the staves into 1" strips on my bandsaw then chopped them into pieces small enough to fit through the neck of a 1.75l Jack Daniels bottle which I then filled the bottle with uncut (93%) spirit. Within days the colour had changed dramatically to a golden caramel, and the oak could be detected in tasting.
                    > >
                    > > I intend to experiment with cutting/blending and hopefully will come up with a palatable oaked product.
                    > >
                    > > --------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Royce Thigpen <fireside58@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Can a wooden keg be used more that once for ageing with the same effect?
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • mav
                    Thanks thursty2, I went back to the local wine shop earlier today and asked the guy about the barrels but he knew nothing but he noticed some barrels had AP
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 11 9:50 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks thursty2,

                      I went back to the local wine shop earlier today and asked the guy about the barrels but he knew nothing but he noticed some barrels had AP Johns stamped on them,(the barrels are not in public view).

                      A quick google and I found their web site,(www.apjohn.com.au), and they sell sample kits, so I think I'll do that when I need more oak.

                      It was very tempting to get the big barrel while they've got them.

                      Cheers
                      Marc


                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "thursty2" <thursty2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Mav,
                      >
                      > I got the barrel for free - from a Margaret River winery in WA. As a barrel it was no longer serviceable, it had dried out and the would no longer hold liquids. But when I cut into a stave, I could see that the oak had barely been penetrated by the red wine it held, and it smelled good. Apparently some vineyards use the barrels first for white wines, then the reds.
                      >
                      > $130 for a used oak barrel is about the go. A half one would cost around $80 from a plant nursery. If all you want is some oak to experiment with, ask the plonk shop where they get them. Tell them you just want some staves to do some woodwork. They may put you in touch with their supplier.
                      >
                      > Sorry I don't know if mine is French or American. I do know that French is 3 times more expensive (as a new barrel) than American oak.
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.