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Cloudy Product

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  • JerryM
    I took some 92% abv JEM product and cut it with distilled water to 46% abv. The orginial product was crystal clear. The diluted product is coudy. When I mixed
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 28, 2010
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      I took some 92% abv JEM product and cut it with distilled water to 46% abv. The orginial product was crystal clear. The diluted product is coudy. When I mixed the water and product, I shook the mix to get it aerated. I thought it would clear on it's own. Been three days now and no clearing.

      Is this normal?
    • JD
      No it is not . Put it in the freezer and see if it falls down. though you could try and filter it trough carbon ore a coffee filter and it will be clear again.
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 29, 2010
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        No it is not .

        Put it in the freezer and see if it falls down.
        though you could try and filter it trough carbon ore a coffee filter and it will be clear again.

        normally the reason it that it contains a lot of tails, but sinds you distilled it at a high percentage i dont think this is the problem.

        Greets

        JD



        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
        >
        > I took some 92% abv JEM product and cut it with distilled water to 46% abv. The orginial product was crystal clear. The diluted product is coudy. When I mixed the water and product, I shook the mix to get it aerated. I thought it would clear on it's own. Been three days now and no clearing.
        >
        > Is this normal?
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hey Jerry, This has occasionally happened to me after a third distillation and cutting too deep into the tails. Also with store bought distilled water, ive
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 29, 2010
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          Hey Jerry,

          This has occasionally happened to me after a third distillation and cutting too deep into the tails.   Also with store bought distilled water, ive found this to happen when it was bought in those plastic jugs.  Now I distill my own to be on the safe side. 

          According to Harry, while this usually happens more with whiskey (which i found to be true), cutting too deep into the tails when doing high ABV stuff will also cause some of the feints and fatty acids to dissolve in the high ABV distillate and cause cloudiness when you dilute it:

          "Another possible cause is fatty acids, usually from the later part of
          the run, when cutting too much into the tails. But they can appear
          even in the hearts at times. Scotch Whisky is notorious for it.
          They add to the flavour profile.

          Fatty acids dissolve easily in strong alcohol and/or higher
          temperatures, but not so much in weaker alcohols at the lower temps
          (like room temp). So, when you water down below about 50% a/v or
          leave them stand at lower room temps for a few days, they precipitate
          (come out of solution) to form solids and appear as little flakes
          rather like scalp dandruff.

          Testing for fatty acids in newmake (white dog) is easy. Put a jar of
          high-test alcohol in the freezer overnight and look at it next
          morning. If you see white flaky material, that's fatty acids. It's
          up to you if you want to remove them or not. Chill filtering is the
          answer for this one: Chill your spirit to 2°C and run it through a 5
          micron wine filter. This is what some of the commercial boys do. It
          gives a sparkling clear product, but many Scotch afficionados (me
          included) prefer the spirit to be un-chill-filtered (some single
          malts are) for a richer Scotch experience.


          HTH

          Slainte!
          regards Harry"
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/30656

          So try that, and instead of the freezing and wine filter as JD and Harry suggested, I have used one of those Melita hour glass shaped coffee makers with a coffee filter with some activated charcoal, when doing neutral.  Run it through a couple of times and it polishes up very nicely.

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim aka Waldo.

          ________________________________________________________________________ 

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
          >
          > I took some 92% abv JEM product and cut it with distilled water to 46% abv. The orginial product was crystal clear. The diluted product is coudy. When I mixed the water and product, I shook the mix to get it aerated. I thought it would clear on it's own. Been three days now and no clearing.
          >
          > Is this normal?
          >

        • Jerry McCullough
          I will try the cool filtering.   I had the distilled water stored in a one gallon plastic food quality jug (came from a restaurant had ranch dressing in it
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 29, 2010
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            I will try the cool filtering.
             
            I had the distilled water stored in a one gallon plastic food quality jug (came from a restaurant had ranch dressing in it originally). I thoroughly cleaned it before use,
             
            I distilled 6 gallons of water about 2 months ago. That was the last of that batch.
             
            Would the plastic jug be a possible source of contaminants?
             
             
            --- On Thu, 4/29/10, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

            From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Cloudy Product
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 7:43 AM

             
            Hey Jerry,
            This has occasionally happened to me after a third distillation and cutting too deep into the tails.   Also with store bought distilled water, ive found this to happen when it was bought in those plastic jugs.  Now I distill my own to be on the safe side. 
            According to Harry, while this usually happens more with whiskey (which i found to be true), cutting too deep into the tails when doing high ABV stuff will also cause some of the feints and fatty acids to dissolve in the high ABV distillate and cause cloudiness when you dilute it:
            "Another possible cause is fatty acids, usually from the later part of
            the run, when cutting too much into the tails. But they can appear
            even in the hearts at times. Scotch Whisky is notorious for it.
            They add to the flavour profile.

            Fatty acids dissolve easily in strong alcohol and/or higher
            temperatures, but not so much in weaker alcohols at the lower temps
            (like room temp). So, when you water down below about 50% a/v or
            leave them stand at lower room temps for a few days, they precipitate
            (come out of solution) to form solids and appear as little flakes
            rather like scalp dandruff.

            Testing for fatty acids in newmake (white dog) is easy. Put a jar of
            high-test alcohol in the freezer overnight and look at it next
            morning. If you see white flaky material, that's fatty acids. It's
            up to you if you want to remove them or not. Chill filtering is the
            answer for this one: Chill your spirit to 2°C and run it through a 5
            micron wine filter. This is what some of the commercial boys do. It
            gives a sparkling clear product, but many Scotch afficionados (me
            included) prefer the spirit to be un-chill-filtered (some single
            malts are) for a richer Scotch experience.


            HTH

            Slainte!
            regards Harry"
            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/new_ distillers/ message/30656
            So try that, and instead of the freezing and wine filter as JD and Harry suggested, I have used one of those Melita hour glass shaped coffee makers with a coffee filter with some activated charcoal, when doing neutral.  Run it through a couple of times and it polishes up very nicely.
            Vino es Veritas,
            Jim aka Waldo.
            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ______ 
            --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
            >
            > I took some 92% abv JEM product and cut it with distilled water to 46% abv. The orginial product was crystal clear. The diluted product is coudy. When I mixed the water and product, I shook the mix to get it aerated. I thought it would clear on it's own. Been three days now and no clearing.
            >
            > Is this normal?
            >

          • jamesonbeam1
            Jerry, I would doubt it, but since you had ranch dressing stored in it, not sure. Below is a posting I made last year on potential chemicals that migrate from
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 29, 2010
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              Jerry,

              I would doubt it, but since you had ranch dressing stored in it, not sure. 

              Below is a posting I made last year on potential chemicals that migrate from plastics under normal use, not even considering if one stores hi proof ethanol in them.

              JB.

              Toxins, Endocrine Disruptors And Carcinogens That Migrate From The Molecules Of Different Plastic Containers To Their Contents

              Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
              Moderately toxic, eye irritant and possible carcinogen. Many glycols produce severe acidosis, central nervous system damage and congestion. Can cause convulsions, mutations, and surface EEG changes. Found in cosmetics, body products, foods, lotions.

              PET: Polyethylene Terephthalate

              Used for: Soda Bottles, Water Bottles, Peanut Butter Jars, Cooking Oil Bottles

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Acetaldehyde

              HDPE: High-Density Polyethylene

              Used for: Milk Jugs, Detergent bottles, Plastic Bags, Yogurt Cups

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

              PVC: Polyvinyl Chloride

              Used for: Water Bottles, Salad Dressing Bottles, Detergent Bottles, Cooking Oil Bottles, Shampoo Bottles, Mouth Wash Bottles, Meat Wrap, Also: Babies' Teething Rings, Pacifiers, Nipples and Toys (Barbie for example).

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Plasticizers (Lead, Cadmium, Mercury, Phthalates and the carcinogen, Diethyl Hexyphosphate)

              LDPE: Low-Density Polyethylene

              Used for: Produce Bags, Food Storage Containers

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

              PP: Polypropylene

              Used for: Bottle Caps, Drinking Straws

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

              PS: Polystyrene

              Used for: Meat Trays, Foam Take-Out Food Containers & Cups (not in Berkeley!), Foam Packing Materials

              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Styrene (traces found in nearly everyone's body fat)


              ________________________________________________________________________

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...> wrote:
              >
              > I will try the cool filtering.
              >  
              > I had the distilled water stored in a one gallon plastic food quality jug (came from a restaurant had ranch dressing in it originally). I thoroughly cleaned it before use,
              >  
              > I distilled 6 gallons of water about 2 months ago. That was the last of that batch.
              >  
              > Would the plastic jug be a possible source of contaminants?
              >  
              >  
              > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@...
              > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Cloudy Product
              > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 7:43 AM
               
              > Hey Jerry,
              > This has occasionally happened to me after a third distillation and cutting too deep into the tails.  Also with store bought distilled water, ive found this to happen when it was bought in those plastic jugs.  Now I distill my own to be on the safe side.

              ____snip

            • Jerry McCullough
              I cooled a quart of 92% abv product and a gallon of 46% abv to about 2 degrees C.   Neither container showed any particles like dandruff. I filtered both
              Message 6 of 6 , May 3, 2010
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                I cooled a quart of 92% abv product and a gallon of 46% abv to about 2 degrees C.
                 
                Neither container showed any particles like dandruff. I filtered both batches through coffee filters. The 92% ABV stayed clear, the 46% abv stayed cloudy.
                 
                I took the 92% abv quart and cut it with a quart of distilled wate that I distilled the day before. It clouded up also.
                 
                The 3 quarts of 92% abv product that I started with should have been all hearts. They were the first three quarts I took from a total run of about 8 quarts. 
                 
                I guess this is a mystery that I hope will be resolved when I complete the polishing filter I am fabricating. It will be interesting to see if that will clear up the product.
                 
                Any comments? 
                 
                 

                --- On Thu, 4/29/10, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

                From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Cloudy Product
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 5:17 PM

                 
                Jerry,
                I would doubt it, but since you had ranch dressing stored in it, not sure. 
                Below is a posting I made last year on potential chemicals that migrate from plastics under normal use, not even considering if one stores hi proof ethanol in them.
                JB.

                Toxins, Endocrine Disruptors And Carcinogens That Migrate From The Molecules Of Different Plastic Containers To Their Contents

                Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
                Moderately toxic, eye irritant and possible carcinogen. Many glycols produce severe acidosis, central nervous system damage and congestion. Can cause convulsions, mutations, and surface EEG changes. Found in cosmetics, body products, foods, lotions.
                PET: Polyethylene Terephthalate
                Used for: Soda Bottles, Water Bottles, Peanut Butter Jars, Cooking Oil Bottles
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Acetaldehyde
                HDPE: High-Density Polyethylene
                Used for: Milk Jugs, Detergent bottles, Plastic Bags, Yogurt Cups
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                PVC: Polyvinyl Chloride
                Used for: Water Bottles, Salad Dressing Bottles, Detergent Bottles, Cooking Oil Bottles, Shampoo Bottles, Mouth Wash Bottles, Meat Wrap, Also: Babies' Teething Rings, Pacifiers, Nipples and Toys (Barbie for example).
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Plasticizers (Lead, Cadmium, Mercury, Phthalates and the carcinogen, Diethyl Hexyphosphate)
                LDPE: Low-Density Polyethylene
                Used for: Produce Bags, Food Storage Containers
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                PP: Polypropylene
                Used for: Bottle Caps, Drinking Straws
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                PS: Polystyrene
                Used for: Meat Trays, Foam Take-Out Food Containers & Cups (not in Berkeley!), Foam Packing Materials
                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Styrene (traces found in nearly everyone's body fat)

                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ______
                --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, Jerry McCullough <jkmccull@...> wrote:
                >
                > I will try the cool filtering.
                >  
                > I had the distilled water stored in a one gallon plastic food quality jug (came from a restaurant had ranch dressing in it originally). I thoroughly cleaned it before use,
                >  
                > I distilled 6 gallons of water about 2 months ago. That was the last of that batch.
                >  
                > Would the plastic jug be a possible source of contaminants?
                >  
                >  
                > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@ ... wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@ ...
                > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Cloudy Product
                > To: new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 7:43 AM
                 
                > Hey Jerry,
                > This has occasionally happened to me after a third distillation and cutting too deep into the tails.  Also with store bought distilled water, ive found this to happen when it was bought in those plastic jugs.  Now I distill my own to be on the safe side.
                ____snip

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