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RE: [new_distillers] Re: dilution

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  • Adrian Hoffman
    Thanks for your help everyone! A From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rye_junkie1 Sent: Tuesday, March 30,
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 1, 2010
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      Thanks for your help everyone!

       

      A

       

      From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rye_junkie1
      Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:22 PM
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: dilution

       

       



      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Hoffman" <datv@...> wrote:

      >
      > SO I've been using the formula of:
      >
      >
      >
      > Volume of distillate *( %ABV actual/%ABV desired ) - volume of distillate
      = volume of distilled water to add
      > For some reason it never works and I always need to add more water.
      Is my formula wrong? Anyone have any ideas?

      > Thanks,
      >
      > Adrian

      In addition to the other advice, I am lazy and use this little Gem.
      http://homedistiller.org/dilute.htm#calc
      I checked your formula with the one in Smileys book and you are good with the formula. Temperature corrections are a must to make when using a spirit hydrometer. Some hydrometers can be off 5% or more depending on the temp of the distillate and the temp that it is calibrated for. Usually 60 or 68F. Also remember that when you add water to dilute the Spirit the temp rises drastically sometimes 15 degrees or more. This will throw your readings off as well and make it look like you need to add more water when in fact you do not. Say you are shooting for 45% from 90% Spirit. Thats going to be around 50/50. You add your 70F water to your 70F Spirit, shake it up and then check it with your hydrometer But its reading well over 50%. First you think to add water. WRONG. Check the temp. Your new temp is in the 80's. You break out the correction table that came with your hydrometer make the correction and find you are right where you want to be. I got bit by this one more than once in the early days.

      Mason

    • edbar44
      Can t figure this out, hoping to get some help about this. Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115, not an error, that s what it
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 2, 2010
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        Can't figure this out, hoping to get some help about this.

        Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115, not an error, that's what it read, was 28 brix as I recall, used Alcotec 48 and when the SG hit 1.040, I added another 5# of sugar, fermented all the way down to .986 in 9 days, waiting for it to settle now and am wondering what percentage of alcohol is in this wash, 'm thinking between 18-20%, how would I calculate it out anyway?
      • rye_junkie1
        ... Try this: http://www.brewhaus.com/Calculators-C108.aspx Converting that to 31.75kg and figure 27.5Gal it comes up with 17.9% potential. Mason
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 2, 2010
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Can't figure this out, hoping to get some help about this.
          >
          > Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115, not an error, that's what it read, was 28 brix as I recall, used Alcotec 48 and when the SG hit 1.040, I added another 5# of sugar, fermented all the way down to .986 in 9 days, waiting for it to settle now and am wondering what percentage of alcohol is in this wash, 'm thinking between 18-20%, how would I calculate it out anyway?
          >

          Try this:
          http://www.brewhaus.com/Calculators-C108.aspx
          Converting that to 31.75kg and figure 27.5Gal it comes up with 17.9% potential.

          Mason
        • jamesonbeam1
          Hi Ed, While your probably going to get cries of Thats way too much sugar!!! from some members around here your SG number is pretty accurate. Using 65 lbs.
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 2, 2010
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            Hi Ed,

            While your probably going to get cries of "Thats way too much sugar!!!" from some members around here your SG number is pretty accurate.  Using 65 lbs. of sugar in a 27 gallon wash (and unfortunately you didnt specify if it was US gallons or Imperial gallons so i will go with "assuming" your talking US gallons), you can easily calculate the potential alcohol ABV by just converting everything to  grams and liters - ie:

            "You require approx 17g of sugar for every %.litre of alcohol you want to make. Eg if you want to make 20L of a 14% alcohol wash, you need 17 x 20 x 14 = 4760g = 4.76 kg of sugar."

            Or if you lazy like myself :D, you can just use Tony Ackland's sugar/alcohol calculator found in his Sugar based wash section http://homedistiller.org/wash-sugar.htm  So for the initial 65 lbs. in 27 gallons US, it would be:

            sugar made up to total volume
            should have an SG and only require of water
            and should produce a wash of % alcohol

            Now without worrying about the little bit of extra volume differential in the 5 lbs. of added sugar in your wash which would increase your 27 gallons a bit, the calculation would be:

            sugar made up to total volume
            should have an SG and only require of water
            and should produce a wash of % alcohol
             
             

            Note: the differential 5 lbs. of sugar makes is only about an addtional 1.5 quarts (27.375) or...

            sugar made up to total volume
            should have an SG and only require of water
            and should produce a wash of % alcohol


            Easy huh?  Now the bad news.  Potential alcohol means just that (notice the "should" in the above calculations).  There are several factors infuencing the amount of alcohol produced from a given amount of sugar in a given amount of wash.   This is why there are sometimes several different alcohol levels given for a specified brix or SG.  (Yes Ed, here is the YA BUTTS) This is because:

            "Potential Alcohol levels vary on the source. This is because the actual quantity of alcohol produced is dependant on the individual yeast strain and fermentation environment. Some sugar is also used by the yeast for growth and production of other compounds, and some alcohol escapes with the carbon dioxide produced during fermentation. The theoretical yield of alcohol from sugar due to alcoholic fermentation (glucose is converted by yeast to ethanol and carbon dioxide) is 51.1% by weight (65 %/volume). However, with these considerations it is closer to 47% by weight (59 %/volume). Jackisch notes that for "red grapes from hot areas" the yield is closer to 43% by weight (54 %/volume) (Modern Winemaking by Philip Jackisch, Cornell University Press, 1985).  "

            Now if you use the scales I use for brix or Sg, as stated above from: http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm  for you SG these figures can range  much lower- See below.   Also if you look at Harry Jackson's Wort Chart (also Shown below) you can see quite a difference between his, Tony's Potential ABV and others. 

            Frankly, while you can use Tony's Specific Gravity numbers, I think his potential alcohol calculation is high and assumes a much higher conversion or attenuation of sugars than most other sources.   So for you 70 lbs. sugar in 27 gallons or about 2.6 lbs per gallon, I would say your Potential ABV is more in the 15% to 16% range.

            I will not say "HTH" because its confusing as hell and still bugs me also. LOL.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.

            SGGravityBrixBauméSugarSugar (lb&oz/US gal.) Sugar (lb&oz/Imp. gal.) PA 1 (%)PA 2 (%)PA 3 (%)PA 4 (%)PA 5 (%)
            (degrees)(degrees)((SG-1)×220)+1.6g/llbozlboz0.6Br-1F=7.36Br×0.59Br×0.54PA=((Brix-3)×SG)×0.59
            1.00001.60.0401010.00.00.90.90
            1.00552.70.71702030.60.71.61.50
            1.010103.81.43004051.31.42.22.10.5
            1.015154.92.14406071.92.02.92.61.1
            1.020206.02.85708092.62.73.53.21.8
            1.025257.13.570090113.33.44.23.82.5
            1.030308.24.2830110133.94.14.84.43.2
            1.035359.34.9970130164.64.85.55.03.8
            1.0404010.45.6110015125.25.46.15.64.5
            1.0454511.56.212310145.96.16.86.25.2
            1.0505012.66.913612166.66.87.46.85.9
            1.0555513.77.514914187.27.58.17.46.7
            1.0606014.88.2163161107.98.28.78.07.4
            1.0656515.98.8176171128.58.89.48.68.1
            1.0707017.09.4189191149.29.510.09.28.8
            1.0757518.110.1202111209.910.210.79.89.6
            1.0808019.210.72151132210.510.911.310.410.3
            1.0858520.311.32281142511.211.512.011.011.1
            1.0909021.411.9242202711.812.212.611.611.8
            1.0959522.512.5255222912.512.913.312.112.6
            1.10010023.613.12682421113.213.613.912.713.4
            1.10510524.713.72822621313.814.314.613.314.1
            1.11011025.814.32952721514.514.915.213.914.9
            1.11511526.914.9308293115.115.615.914.515.7
            1.12012028.015.53212113315.816.316.515.116.5
            1.12512529.116.03352133616.517.017.215.717.3
            1.13013030.216.63482143817.117.717.816.318.1
            1.13513531.317.13613031017.818.318.516.919.0
            1.14014032.417.73743231218.419.019.117.519.8
            1.14514533.518.33873431419.119.719.818.120.6
            1.15015034.618.8401364019.820.420.418.721.4
            1.15515535.719.4414374220.421.121.119.322.3
            1.16016036.819.9427394421.121.721.719.923.1

            http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm

             



             

            Distillers Wort Chart - Harry Jackson

            Hydrometer table
            Specific gravity (S.G.)Potential alcohol % vol. Sugar / litre grams

             Notes

            1.0100.912.5

             

            1.0151.625

             

            1.0202.344

             

            1.0253.057

             

            1.0303.776

             

            1.0354.495

             

            1.0405.1107

             

            1.0455.8120

             

            1.0506.5132

            Range average for grain wort

            1.0557.2145
            1.0607.9157.5

             

            1.0658.6170

             

            1.0709.2182.5

             

            1.0759.9195

             

            1.08010.6208

             

            1.08511.3225

             

            1.09012.0240

             

            1.09512.7252

             

            1.10013.4265

            Upper limit for bread yeasts

            1.10514.1277

             

            1.11014.9290

             

            1.11515.6302.5

            Upper limit for wine yeasts

            1.12016.3315

             

            1.12517.0327.5

             

            1.13017.7340

             

            1.13518.4352

            Upper limit for turbo yeasts

             

             

            To set a wort for fermentation:  Use the hydrometer chart and adjust your sugar content for desired potential alcohol and type of yeast used.  After adjustment, take your first hydrometer reading and record it as the Original Gravity (O.G.) figure.

            When fermentation is complete, take your second hydrometer reading and record it as the Final Gravity (F.G.) figure.

            Using the equation for % Alcohol By Volume, you can calculate the actual alcohol content achieved for the wort.  Compare this to the potential alcohol volume given in the chart, and you will get an idea of how efficient, or otherwise, your attenuation is.

            You can also calculate the percentage of Alcohol By Weight which is sometimes used in beer brewing.

            Copyright © 2007 H Jackson.  All rights reserved.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Can't figure this out, hoping to get some help about this.
            >
            > Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115, not an error, that's what it read, was 28 brix as I recall, used Alcotec 48 and when the SG hit 1.040, I added another 5# of sugar, fermented all the way down to .986 in 9 days, waiting for it to settle now and am wondering what percentage of alcohol is in this wash, 'm thinking between 18-20%, how would I calculate it out anyway?
            >

          • rye_junkie1
            ... If you want to do it on your own: lets say you had 70 pounds of sugar(you did) and you want an 18% wash from that(yall know how I feel about this high
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 2, 2010
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Can't figure this out, hoping to get some help about this.
              > >
              > > Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115, not an error, that's what it read, was 28 brix as I recall, used Alcotec 48 and when the SG hit 1.040, I added another 5# of sugar, fermented all the way down to .986 in 9 days, waiting for it to settle now and am wondering what percentage of alcohol is in this wash, 'm thinking between 18-20%, how would I calculate it out anyway?
              > >
              >
              > Try this:
              > http://www.brewhaus.com/Calculators-C108.aspx
              > Converting that to 31.75kg and figure 27.5Gal it comes up with 17.9% potential.
              >
              > Mason
              >


              If you want to do it on your own:
              lets say you had 70 pounds of sugar(you did) and you want an 18% wash from that(yall know how I feel about this high gravity crap but I feel like helping a brother out).
              18%alcohol x 17(the constant) = 306 Grams/liter
              70 / 306 x 120(constant for American) = 27.4509 gallons total volume
              For you Metric loving Folk:
              70lbs = 31.75kg
              18 x 17 = 306
              31.75 / 306 x 1000(constant for Metric) = 103.758 liters total volume

              Enjoy. You want more than that you got to throw some Cash at the Mikes for "The Compleat Distiller". May be in Harry's library also.

              Mason
            • Sven
              --Hallo new destillers hier ist die korrekte Formel zum Verdünnen you have 500 ml alkohol with 63,3 % you will have 43 % ( fine fruit for instance blacberry )
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 3, 2010
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                --Hallo new destillers

                hier ist die korrekte Formel zum Verdünnen

                you have 500 ml alkohol with 63,3 %

                you will have 43 % ( fine fruit for instance blacberry )

                HERE NOW THE FORMULA

                W= 500 x ( 63,5- 43 )/43 = 236 ml good water
                ok

                hope my english is ok

                sind deutschsprechende auch dabei würde mich gern anfreunden
                but to english spoken people

                thanks Walter from Hannover Germany
              • edbar44
                thanks for the info, really appreciate it and as long as I figured I was in the ballpark, I m quite pleased, waiting for it to settle a little to do a
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 4, 2010
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                  thanks for the info, really appreciate it and as long as I figured I was in the ballpark, I'm quite pleased, waiting for it to settle a little to do a stripping run.

                  I've got some experience now and have been getting pretty good product lately. Used a lot of good advice gathered here and on other forums and must say, the best advice was to start with a big pipe if you want to distill. I don't miss those 20 hour runs getting a few liters of good product. I can strip this 27 gallons in 5-6 hours without a problem and a 10 gallon spirit run takes about 8-10 hours netting out 5-6 gallons of product.
                  >
                  > Hi Ed,
                  >
                  > While your probably going to get cries of "Thats way too much sugar!!!"
                  > from some members around here your SG number is pretty accurate. Using
                  > 65 lbs. of sugar in a 27 gallon wash (and unfortunately you didnt
                  > specify if it was US gallons or Imperial gallons so i will go with
                  > "assuming" your talking US gallons), you can easily calculate the
                  > potential alcohol ABV by just converting everything to grams and liters


                  > > Can't figure this out, hoping to get some help about this.
                  > >
                  > > Started a 27 GALLON sugar wash, 65# of sugar, starting SG was 1.115,
                  > not an error, that's what it read, was 28 brix as I recall, used Alcotec
                  > 48 and when the SG hit 1.040, I added another 5# of sugar, fermented all
                  > the way down to .986 in 9 days, waiting for it to settle now and am
                  > wondering what percentage of alcohol is in this wash, 'm thinking
                  > between 18-20%, how would I calculate it out anyway?
                  > >
                  >
                • Geoff
                  ... snip I ve got some experience now and have been getting pretty good product lately. Used a lot of good advice gathered here and on other forums and must
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 4, 2010
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@...> wrote:
                    snip

                    I've got some experience now and have been getting pretty good product lately. Used a lot of good advice gathered here and on other forums and must say, the best advice was to start with a big pipe if you want to distill. I don't miss those 20 hour runs getting a few liters of good product. I can strip this 27 gallons in 5-6 hours without a problem and a 10 gallon spirit run takes about 8-10 hours netting out 5-6 gallons of product.

                    snip

                    Hi, Ed and folks,

                    I'm yet to figure out whether to make a reflux still (probably. The pot still is great for stripping runs, also for fruit, but for a neutral spirit from sugar wash I think the reflux will be ideal);

                    and if so what design to use (probably Bokakob slant plate combined with Vapour Management);

                    and what diameter copper column to use (probably three inch, I was lucky enough to get a lot of various sized copper from a scrap merchant about three years ago before the prices went up.)

                    So I am especially interested in the experience of people who have made reflux stills with larger columns; diameter, height, how you made it and how you run it and how well it works.

                    Ed, could you tell us more about your still?

                    And I'd like to hear from others , too, with a bigger still.

                    Thanks,

                    The Baker
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