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Re: mum wash

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  • rye_junkie1
    ... It s kind of hard to answer that question. There are a lot of variables at work. If you went with a 7-8lb sugar content per wash and they ferment out to
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > All:
      >
      > I am new to the group and I am in the process of running two washes of the hybrid mum and would like to know how much yeald should I get .
      >
      > Don///

      It's kind of hard to answer that question. There are a lot of variables at work. If you went with a 7-8lb sugar content per wash and they ferment out to .990sg, and you strip them to 208-210F and then at least double distill, Collecting 250-300ml combined foreshots and heads and whatever you get for tails, then you should get in the neighborhood of 1 1/2-2 gallons of 40-45% Spirit after diluting to drinking strength.
      If you run the Spirit run too fast then the heads are going to stay late and the tails come early making your drinking cut smaller and nowhere near the quality that you want.
      If you are new to distilling altogether then i would suggest stripping the washes slowly. Shoot for 1L/hour and collect up to 208.5F. That should give you a nice clear batch of Low Wines. For the second run Run it slow again and toss whatever comes out before 172F and collect up to 201-203F. The third run Do the same as the second but collect an extra 250ml of foreshots then start collecting in pint jars. When the temp gets to 185F you will be into the tails.
      Its a lot of work but when i was first starting out triple distilling was the way i got the Spirit quality I was looking for.

      Mason
    • dhaynes42@comcast.net
      Mason: I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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        Mason:

        I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.

        Thanks

        Don///

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
        To: "new distillers" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 2:33:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: mum wash

         



        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > All:
        >
        > I am new to the group and I am in the process of running two washes of the hybrid mum and would like to know how much yeald should I get .
        >
        > Don///

        It's kind of hard to answer that question. There are a lot of variables at work. If you went with a 7-8lb sugar content per wash and they ferment out to .990sg, and you strip them to 208-210F and then at least double distill, Collecting 250-300ml combined foreshots and heads and whatever you get for tails, then you should get in the neighborhood of 1 1/2-2 gallons of 40-45% Spirit after diluting to drinking strength.
        If you run the Spirit run too fast then the heads are going to stay late and the tails come early making your drinking cut smaller and nowhere near the quality that you want.
        If you are new to distilling altogether then i would suggest stripping the washes slowly. Shoot for 1L/hour and collect up to 208.5F. That should give you a nice clear batch of Low Wines. For the second run Run it slow again and toss whatever comes out before 172F and collect up to 201-203F. The third run Do the same as the second but collect an extra 250ml of foreshots then start collecting in pint jars. When the temp gets to 185F you will be into the tails.
        Its a lot of work but when i was first starting out triple distilling was the way i got the Spirit quality I was looking for.

        Mason

      • rye_junkie1
        ... I d say something went wrong somewhere. What was the start Sg of those washes? 1/3 gallon from 80c Column temp should be about 90%abv. That should be
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Mason:
          >
          > I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.
          >
          > Thanks


          I'd say something went wrong somewhere. What was the start Sg of those washes? 1/3 gallon from 80c Column temp should be about 90%abv. That should be around 2.5L when diluted to 45%. You also dont mention Making any cuts. Cuts with a reflux rig are just as important as with a pot still. Maybe more important depending on how you look at it.

          Mason
        • dhaynes42@comcast.net
          Mason: The start pg of the wash was 1.85 and the 1/3 gal was uncut As I said I am a novice and am going to have to learn more about what I am trying to do.
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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            Mason:

            The start pg of the wash was 1.85 and the 1/3 gal was uncut

            As I said I am a novice and am going to have to learn more about what I am trying to do.

            Thanks

            Don///

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
            To: "new distillers" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:04:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: mum wash

             



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Mason:
            >
            > I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.
            >
            > Thanks

            I'd say something went wrong somewhere. What was the start Sg of those washes? 1/3 gallon from 80c Column temp should be about 90%abv. That should be around 2.5L when diluted to 45%. You also dont mention Making any cuts. Cuts with a reflux rig are just as important as with a pot still. Maybe more important depending on how you look at it.

            Mason

          • bigdaddyg851
            the purpose of a valved reflux still is to run clean spirits next to pure as possible, 90% to 95% alcohol is anybody goal when running this type of still.there
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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              the purpose of a valved reflux still is to run clean spirits next to pure as possible, 90% to 95% alcohol is anybody goal when running this type of still.there will be little flavor (vodka).
              >>>> you do understand that once the temp reaches 77c at the top of the reflux colum you need to to put that still into total reflux for an 1hr to hr 1 1/2 then leaveing that reflux valve fully open start to collect through the product valve (1 or 2 drops a second).take the heads first (150ml)then take the body untill the temputure on top of the reflux colum reaches 85c .then cut to the tails and run it to about 96c .combine the heads and the tails and throw them in you next run .
              <<<< any tpye of sugar wash wheter JEM or a MUM is better set to run in this type of still with a 16% to 18% wash .a black beards rum witch has flavor you would be better off running through a pot still.

              bigdaddyg

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Mason:
              >
              > I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > Don///
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
              > To: "new distillers" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 2:33:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
              > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: mum wash
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com , dhaynes42@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > All:
              > >
              > > I am new to the group and I am in the process of running two washes of the hybrid mum and would like to know how much yeald should I get .
              > >
              > > Don///
              >
              > It's kind of hard to answer that question. There are a lot of variables at work. If you went with a 7-8lb sugar content per wash and they ferment out to .990sg, and you strip them to 208-210F and then at least double distill, Collecting 250-300ml combined foreshots and heads and whatever you get for tails, then you should get in the neighborhood of 1 1/2-2 gallons of 40-45% Spirit after diluting to drinking strength.
              > If you run the Spirit run too fast then the heads are going to stay late and the tails come early making your drinking cut smaller and nowhere near the quality that you want.
              > If you are new to distilling altogether then i would suggest stripping the washes slowly. Shoot for 1L/hour and collect up to 208.5F. That should give you a nice clear batch of Low Wines. For the second run Run it slow again and toss whatever comes out before 172F and collect up to 201-203F. The third run Do the same as the second but collect an extra 250ml of foreshots then start collecting in pint jars. When the temp gets to 185F you will be into the tails.
              > Its a lot of work but when i was first starting out triple distilling was the way i got the Spirit quality I was looking for.
              >
              > Mason
              >
            • rye_junkie1
              ... Bigdaddy laid out the run process for reflux pretty good. For me, I do find the tails coming in around 179F/81C. There is something going on here but I m
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 29, 2010
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
                >
                > the purpose of a valved reflux still is to run clean spirits next to pure as possible, 90% to 95% alcohol is anybody goal when running this type of still.there will be little flavor (vodka).
                > >>>> you do understand that once the temp reaches 77c at the top of the reflux colum you need to to put that still into total reflux for an 1hr to hr 1 1/2 then leaveing that reflux valve fully open start to collect through the product valve (1 or 2 drops a second).take the heads first (150ml)then take the body untill the temputure on top of the reflux colum reaches 85c .then cut to the tails and run it to about 96c .combine the heads and the tails and throw them in you next run .
                > <<<< any tpye of sugar wash wheter JEM or a MUM is better set to run in this type of still with a 16% to 18% wash .a black beards rum witch has flavor you would be better off running through a pot still.
                >
                > bigdaddyg
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@ wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Mason:
                > >
                > > I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > >
                > > Don///


                Bigdaddy laid out the run process for reflux pretty good. For me, I do find the tails coming in around 179F/81C. There is something going on here but I'm not seeing it. One thing that I do suggest is doing stripping runs. If you are going for vodka then I would strip the wash to 1/3 its volume. Take it all the way to 212F. This ensures that all of the usable alcohol is stripped from the wash. If you dont have a pot still then do this in your reflux rig without packing. The result of these stripping runs is called Low Wines. Charge the still with the low wines, Add a few tablespoons of Baking soda and run the rig as bigdaddy stated. A decent rule of thumb comes from the fuel etho guys. 14 lbs of sugar will get you 1 gallon of 90-95% ethanol. That would be 2 gallons at drinking strength. Keep in mind that this is fuel. The engine doesnt care what it taste like. But if you were to make proper cuts removing Foreshots, heads, Middle run and tails then the total volume should be near 1 gallon.
                Or we can look at it this way from Ian Smileys book for calculating a pure ethanol run. Volume of Redistill x %abv/95% = total volume of etho at 95%. In this case your redistill is your wash. And I will assume that was a mis type and the start SG was 1.085. 11% potential. 8 gallons is 30,283ml x 11/95 = 3506.4ml or .9262gallons etho at 95%. Wifes callin, gotta run.

                Mason
              • dhaynes42@comcast.net
                I did not know that was how one should run this still. I got the planes off the internet but no information on how to operate it. I have been playing it by ear
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 30, 2010
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                  I did not know that was how one should run this still. I got the planes off the internet but no information on how to operate it. I have been playing it by ear so far. I have made two runs to date the black beards rum and the mum wash. Each time I had the reflux valve open two turns and the product valve one. I took the entire product, not removing the heads or the tails. I should have tried to read more about what I was doing before jumping in.   Which is the best still to have for just a home hobby the reflux or the pot?

                  Thanks for all the information

                  Don///

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                  To: "new distillers" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:14:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: mum wash

                   



                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > the purpose of a valved reflux still is to run clean spirits next to pure as possible, 90% to 95% alcohol is anybody goal when running this type of still.there will be little flavor (vodka).
                  > >>>> you do understand that once the temp reaches 77c at the top of the reflux colum you need to to put that still into total reflux for an 1hr to hr 1 1/2 then leaveing that reflux valve fully open start to collect through the product valve (1 or 2 drops a second).take the heads first (150ml)then take the body untill the temputure on top of the reflux colum reaches 85c .then cut to the tails and run it to about 96c .combine the heads and the tails and throw them in you next run .
                  > <<<< any tpye of sugar wash wheter JEM or a MUM is better set to run in this type of still with a 16% to 18% wash .a black beards rum witch has flavor you would be better off running through a pot still.
                  >
                  > bigdaddyg
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Mason:
                  > >
                  > > I am using a valved reflux still that I built from a plane on the Internet. I am a novice at this and have run some black beards rum from one of the sites. I just finshed running the mum wash that had a finishing pg of 0.97 +- , it ran at 80c and I got approximately 1/3 gal of product out of the 8 gal of wash. Should I rerun that to make sure I get a good finshed product.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks
                  > >
                  > > Don///

                  Bigdaddy laid out the run process for reflux pretty good. For me, I do find the tails coming in around 179F/81C. There is something going on here but I'm not seeing it. One thing that I do suggest is doing stripping runs. If you are going for vodka then I would strip the wash to 1/3 its volume. Take it all the way to 212F. This ensures that all of the usable alcohol is stripped from the wash. If you dont have a pot still then do this in your reflux rig without packing. The result of these stripping runs is called Low Wines. Charge the still with the low wines, Add a few tablespoons of Baking soda and run the rig as bigdaddy stated. A decent rule of thumb comes from the fuel etho guys. 14 lbs of sugar will get you 1 gallon of 90-95% ethanol. That would be 2 gallons at drinking strength. Keep in mind that this is fuel. The engine doesnt care what it taste like. But if you were to make proper cuts removing Foreshots, heads, Middle run and tails then the total volume should be near 1 gallon.
                  Or we can look at it this way from Ian Smileys book for calculating a pure ethanol run. Volume of Redistill x %abv/95% = total volume of etho at 95%. In this case your redistill is your wash. And I will assume that was a mis type and the start SG was 1.085. 11% potential. 8 gallons is 30,283ml x 11/95 = 3506.4ml or .9262gallons etho at 95%. Wifes callin, gotta run.

                  Mason

                • greg smith
                  It sounds like u have a cm head, which is probably one of the poorest types of heads to have regardless of what ur doing.  If your main aim is to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 30, 2010
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                    It sounds like u have a cm head, which is probably one of the poorest types of heads to have regardless of what ur doing.  If your main aim is to produce neutral product with as little flavor as possible, in conjunction with the highest possible alcolhol content then a good reflux still is the best choice.  I would recommend an ez to build bokabob mini or something based on that plan.  If you are looking to make spirits with flaovoer, i.e. whiskies, brandies, and rums then your best choice is a pot still. 
                     
                    If I could only have one still it would be a potstill.  It is much faster in stripping runs and allows flavor to come through and if it is run right you can get withing 10 or 15 points of what a reflux still will do in terms of purity on your second run.
                     
                    But why not both?  Potstill can be so simple and ez to make and a bokabob mini is fairly ez to construct with few parts go for both.  Use the potstill on stripping runs and for spirit runs for flavored spirits.  Use the reflux to finish neutral spirit runs with highest possible alcohol content.
                    --- On Tue, 3/30/10, dhaynes42@... <dhaynes42@...> wrote:


                    From: dhaynes42@... <dhaynes42@...>
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: mum wash
                    To: "new distillers" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 10:11 AM

                    I did not know that was how one should run this still. I got the planes off the internet but no information on how to operate it. I have been playing it by ear so far. I have made two runs to date the black beards rum and the mum wash. Each time I had the reflux valve open two turns and the product valve one. I took the entire product, not removing the heads or the tails. I should have tried to read more about what I was doing before jumping in.   Which is the best still to have for just a home hobby the reflux or the pot?
                    Thanks for all the information
                    Don
                  • rye_junkie1
                    ... Another question that is tough to answer. My first answer would be both. I have both Pot and Reflux Still heads and use both. Both definitely have their
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 30, 2010
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                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dhaynes42@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I did not know that was how one should run this still. I got the planes off the internet but no information on how to operate it. I have been playing it by ear so far. I have made two runs to date the black beards rum and the mum wash. Each time I had the reflux valve open two turns and the product valve one. I took the entire product, not removing the heads or the tails. I should have tried to read more about what I was doing before jumping in.     Which is the best still to have for just a home hobby the reflux or the pot?
                      >
                      > Thanks for all the information
                      >


                      Another question that is tough to answer. My first answer would be both. I have both Pot and Reflux Still heads and use both. Both definitely have their purpose in this hobby. A lot of it depends on what you want to make. You mention Rum. If that is your passion then i would Strongly lean toward a Pot Still and maybe add a thumper/doubler. Same for whiskeys. If you are more interested in very clean Vodka, then Reflux is the way to go. For Gin you would use a reflux rig to get the Neutral vodka, Macerate botanicals in the vodka and then Run it through a Pot still To clear it back up. All that said about Reflux stills I have triple Distilled sugar washes in my Pot Rig and then macerated Botanicals in that Spirit, Run it a fourth time through the pot and gotten Gin that Rivals my favorite Bombay Saphire.
                      If you build some modularity into your reflux rig then you can easily run it as a pot Still and get excellent results. Take for example those of us who have built Harry's Cross flow condenser head. I built mine so that the head slips on the top of the 2" diameter column and seals with Either Teflon tape or the EPDM Seals that Amphora sells. The Column also slips into a fitting attached to the boiler lid and sealed the same way. I want vodka I use either the 42" long or my new 60" long column. I want to strip a wash or use as a pot still then I use the 18" long Piece. I still think that Cross Flow Head is the best thing to come around Since God made Women. Your Valved head can be made the same way if it isnt already.
                      One Possible advantage to having a Reflux Rig is that some will collect their heads and tails and over time build up a few gallons and run them slowly to collect the Usable alcohol from them. I wouldnt try this in a pot still.

                      Mason
                    • tgfoitwoods
                      Don, That really depends on what you want to make. At its simplest, potstills are most appropriate where you want to bring flavors of the spirit over to your
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 30, 2010
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                        Don,

                        That really depends on what you want to make. At its simplest, potstills are most appropriate where you want to bring flavors of the spirit over to your distillate, as in whisk(e)y, brandy, rum, gin, ouzo, and so on. Compound reflux stills are designed to make flavorless ethanol-water mixtures which can be diluted to vodka and flavored later.

                        These rules are not hard and fast, as I make a more-or-less flavorless vodka-like drink in a potstill, and many "cripple" their refluxers to simulate potstills.

                        Talk to both potstillers and refluxers (or better, guys who do both) and form your own opinion from that.

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                        ----snip---- Which is the best still to have for just a home hobby the reflux or the pot?
                        >
                        > Thanks for all the information
                        >
                        > Don/// ----- Original Message -----
                        ----snip----
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