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Re: Stripping run for Reflux Still

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  • bigdaddyg851
    OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one gallon milk
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 5, 2010
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      OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one gallon milk containers. put 2 quarts in each gal container and freeze for a couple of days till frozen. you will need quart size canning jars (wide mouth).take the frozen gallon milk jug with the two quarts of wash and turn it upside down over the quart size canning jar extract one quart (Freezer extraction).
      >>>> now what you have done is cut down on your boiling time . the only thing left after you extract that one quart, is water! thus no need for a stripping run with a reflux still because you already striped away all that water in the freezer extraction .
      >>> if there is anybody who can tell me why this is not a good idea PLEASE,i would sincerely appreciate the input . because it just makes to much sense to me .
      bigdaddyg

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am fermenting a 10 gallon JEM wash. When it is ready, I will distill using a reflux still. My goal is a neutral spirit.
      >
      > Seems to me that I could control the heat and reflux rate and do a spirit run upfront without the need of a stripping run. Is there a flaw in that logic?
      >
      > Any responses are apperciated.
      >
    • rye_junkie1
      Opinions to both questions below. ... If you are looking to get anything close to neutral then I would strongly recommend stripping the wash. If you insist on
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 5, 2010
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        Opinions to both questions below.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
        >
        > OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one gallon milk containers. put 2 quarts in each gal container and freeze for a couple of days till frozen. you will need quart size canning jars (wide mouth).take the frozen gallon milk jug with the two quarts of wash and turn it upside down over the quart size canning jar extract one quart (Freezer extraction).
        > >>>> now what you have done is cut down on your boiling time . the only thing left after you extract that one quart, is water! thus no need for a stripping run with a reflux still because you already striped away all that water in the freezer extraction .
        > >>> if there is anybody who can tell me why this is not a good idea PLEASE,i would sincerely appreciate the input . because it just makes to much sense to me .
        > bigdaddyg
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I am fermenting a 10 gallon JEM wash. When it is ready, I will distill using a reflux still. My goal is a neutral spirit.
        > >
        > > Seems to me that I could control the heat and reflux rate and do a spirit run upfront without the need of a stripping run. Is there a flaw in that logic?
        > >
        > > Any responses are apperciated.
        > >
        >

        If you are looking to get anything close to neutral then I would strongly recommend stripping the wash. If you insist on reflux running the wash then make sure that the wash is crystal clear. Reflux runs generally last for a long time ( I had one go 36hours). All of those wash ingredients will have sufficient time to get scorched POSSIBLY. Also, Even though I think miracle grow is the best nutrient for a wash going right now I still feel better when the product has been stripped then refluxed or if I am pot distilling it has to be XXX. Also you would need to run the wash very slow for a single reflux run say 600 watts and a take off of 500ml/hour or less to get neutral. You could easily strip the run at 2500 watts(or more) in a couple of hours and then do a spirit run at 1000 watts at 750ml-1L/hour take off and get a much cleaner product. Just my opinion.

        As for freeze "distillation". I played around with this early on in my time in this wonderful hobby. The problem is, you loose A LOT of good alcohol. There is still plenty of booze to be had from whats left in the jug. Not to mention the time it take to do all that. I stripped 6.3 liters (1/3rd) from a five gallon MUM wash last night in 2 hours and that included heat up.
        Probably the best I have ever gotten the freeze method to work was with a wash that was near 15%. 24 hours in the freezer and it was thick slushy. I was basically able to pour it straight through a strainer and was left with clear Ice. Build yourself a small stock pot (7 quart) still and run the left overs from your freeze. You might be surprised. Then again I may just suck at the process.

        Mason
      • Jerry McCullough
        I think ryejunkie s answer to my question makes a lot of sense and I will do the stripping run on my JEM wash then do a spirit run.   My problem with
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 6, 2010
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          I think ryejunkie's answer to my question makes a lot of sense and I will do the stripping run on my JEM wash then do a spirit run.
           
          My problem with freezing the wash and then extracting the alcohol is that I do not have freezer space or containers adquate to handle 10 gallons in one freezing session. With work, family obligations and life in general, it would take me several weeks or more for the freezing, thawing and extracting. I might try it one day, it is not a bad idea, just not practical for me.   

          --- On Fri, 3/5/10, rye_junkie1 <rye_junkie@...> wrote:

          From: rye_junkie1 <rye_junkie@...>
          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Stripping run for Reflux Still
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 7:37 PM

           
          Opinions to both questions below.

          --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one gallon milk containers. put 2 quarts in each gal container and freeze for a couple of days till frozen. you will need quart size canning jars (wide mouth).take the frozen gallon milk jug with the two quarts of wash and turn it upside down over the quart size canning jar extract one quart (Freezer extraction).
          > >>>> now what you have done is cut down on your boiling time . the only thing left after you extract that one quart, is water! thus no need for a stripping run with a reflux still because you already striped away all that water in the freezer extraction .
          > >>> if there is anybody who can tell me why this is not a good idea PLEASE,i would sincerely appreciate the input . because it just makes to much sense to me .
          > bigdaddyg
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "JerryM" <jkmccull@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I am fermenting a 10 gallon JEM wash. When it is ready, I will distill using a reflux still. My goal is a neutral spirit.
          > >
          > > Seems to me that I could control the heat and reflux rate and do a spirit run upfront without the need of a stripping run. Is there a flaw in that logic?
          > >
          > > Any responses are apperciated.
          > >
          >

          If you are looking to get anything close to neutral then I would strongly recommend stripping the wash. If you insist on reflux running the wash then make sure that the wash is crystal clear. Reflux runs generally last for a long time ( I had one go 36hours). All of those wash ingredients will have sufficient time to get scorched POSSIBLY. Also, Even though I think miracle grow is the best nutrient for a wash going right now I still feel better when the product has been stripped then refluxed or if I am pot distilling it has to be XXX. Also you would need to run the wash very slow for a single reflux run say 600 watts and a take off of 500ml/hour or less to get neutral. You could easily strip the run at 2500 watts(or more) in a couple of hours and then do a spirit run at 1000 watts at 750ml-1L/hour take off and get a much cleaner product. Just my opinion.

          As for freeze "distillation" . I played around with this early on in my time in this wonderful hobby. The problem is, you loose A LOT of good alcohol. There is still plenty of booze to be had from whats left in the jug. Not to mention the time it take to do all that. I stripped 6.3 liters (1/3rd) from a five gallon MUM wash last night in 2 hours and that included heat up.
          Probably the best I have ever gotten the freeze method to work was with a wash that was near 15%. 24 hours in the freezer and it was thick slushy. I was basically able to pour it straight through a strainer and was left with clear Ice. Build yourself a small stock pot (7 quart) still and run the left overs from your freeze. You might be surprised. Then again I may just suck at the process.

          Mason


        • jamesonbeam1
          Hi Bigdaddy, Yes, im afraid Mason is correct. Fractional crystalization, freezing or freeze distillation is an old way of making apple jack and other
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 6, 2010
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            Hi Bigdaddy,

            Yes, im afraid Mason is correct.  Fractional crystalization, freezing or freeze distillation is an old way of making apple jack and other fortified wines.  Its based on the differential in freezing points between water and ethyl alcohol (32F  vs -173F).  However, to get sufficiently enriched alcohol levels, you need a really cold freezer which most people dont have:

             'The following will give you an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
            temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below 33% alcohol can be obtained."  See:  http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

            Also, as it freezes, some of the water/alcohol mixture will freeze as well, giving a richer alcohol soulution, so you will be leaving some ethanol behind.  Also it does nothing to take out any fusel oils as does a stripping run.  Read:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing for a full description.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.

            ____________________________________________________________________________

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
            >
            > OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one gallon milk containers. put 2 quarts in each gal container and freeze for a couple of days till frozen. you will need quart size canning jars (wide mouth).take the frozen gallon milk jug with the two quarts of wash and turn it upside down over the quart size canning jar extract one quart (Freezer extraction).
            > >>>> now what you have done is cut down on your boiling time . the only thing left after you extract that one quart, is water! thus no need for a stripping run with a reflux still because you already striped away all that water in the freezer extraction .
            > >>> if there is anybody who can tell me why this is not a good idea PLEASE,i would sincerely appreciate the input . because it just makes to much sense to me .
            > bigdaddyg
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" jkmccull@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I am fermenting a 10 gallon JEM wash. When it is ready, I will distill using a reflux still. My goal is a neutral spirit.
            > >
            > > Seems to me that I could control the heat and reflux rate and do a spirit run upfront without the need of a stripping run. Is there a flaw in that logic?
            > >
            > > Any responses are apperciated.
            > >
            >

          • bigdaddyg851
            Thanks, waldo and mason ! i have a very cold freezer. that a this time of the year is pretty much empty . i can easily fit a five gal wash in the freezer . in
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 8, 2010
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              Thanks, waldo and mason !
              i have a very cold freezer. that a this time of the year is pretty much empty . i can easily fit a five gal wash in the freezer . in a couple of days it freezes solid .i get about seven liters of crystal clear wash witch i put an air lock on till ready to use.
              as mason said, i am going to keep what was frozen after extraction let it Thor out and run it through a pot still and see what i get.
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi Bigdaddy,
              >
              > Yes, im afraid Mason is correct. Fractional crystalization, freezing or
              > freeze distillation is an old way of making apple jack and other
              > fortified wines. Its based on the differential in freezing points
              > between water and ethyl alcohol (32F vs -173F). However, to get
              > sufficiently enriched alcohol levels, you need a really cold freezer
              > which most people dont have:
              >
              > 'The following will give you an idea of how concentrated the alcohol
              > can become at a given
              > temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid reaches 14%
              > alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it reaches 20%. At 20
              > below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below 33% alcohol can be obtained."
              > See: http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html
              > <http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html>
              >
              > Also, as it freezes, some of the water/alcohol mixture will freeze as
              > well, giving a richer alcohol soulution, so you will be leaving some
              > ethanol behind. Also it does nothing to take out any fusel oils as does
              > a stripping run. Read:
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing
              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing> for a full
              > description.
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo.
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________\
              > ____
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > OK!, i am going to tell you what i do ! and i read it in a forum of
              > new distillers months ago . take one gallon of wash. get two empty one
              > gallon milk containers. put 2 quarts in each gal container and freeze
              > for a couple of days till frozen. you will need quart size canning jars
              > (wide mouth).take the frozen gallon milk jug with the two quarts of wash
              > and turn it upside down over the quart size canning jar extract one
              > quart (Freezer extraction).
              > > >>>> now what you have done is cut down on your boiling time . the
              > only thing left after you extract that one quart, is water! thus no need
              > for a stripping run with a reflux still because you already striped away
              > all that water in the freezer extraction .
              > > >>> if there is anybody who can tell me why this is not a good idea
              > PLEASE,i would sincerely appreciate the input . because it just makes to
              > much sense to me .
              > > bigdaddyg
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "JerryM" jkmccull@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I am fermenting a 10 gallon JEM wash. When it is ready, I will
              > distill using a reflux still. My goal is a neutral spirit.
              > > >
              > > > Seems to me that I could control the heat and reflux rate and do a
              > spirit run upfront without the need of a stripping run. Is there a flaw
              > in that logic?
              > > >
              > > > Any responses are apperciated.
              > > >
              > >
              >
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