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Crossflow Question

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  • fred081646
    My build is coming right along. I finished Harry s crossflow condenser. I tested it after soldering and it only had one small leak, which was easily fixed. I
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 3, 2010
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      My build is coming right along.

      I finished Harry's crossflow condenser. I tested it after soldering and it only had one small leak, which was easily fixed. I did all of the soldering with regular pipe solder. What I did was file the OD of the plates holding the tubes to fit inside the 2" pipe. I made a tight fit so they were held in place on their own. It really wasn't that hard of a job, it just takes some time. I set the plates in about 3/8" from the end and just let the solder flow around them. This allowed me to solder the plates and tubes at the same time.

      I know I did an overkill on the size of the condenser. Like Harry said some people were skeptical of it's ability and I was one of them so I went big. I just didn't want to go small and have to throw it away and build another. I can't bring myself to tell you how big it is. LOL

      I am not making a VM still at this time so I need to decide where I want to take the product from.

      In the photo's section under "Marc"s photos" I see where he is taking product from both sides of the condenser. Being that this condenser is very efficient would I lose a lot of product back down the column?
      This would make for more reflux though.

      Also, would some foreshots and heads lay in the condenser and contaminate the hearts, being that each side of the condenser does not angle down to the column?

      My question, should I take the product from the condenser or from the plates in the column?

      Thank You Fred
    • mav
      Hi Fred, I m glad to hear that your crossflow condenser build worked out good, I did nt think it was that hard either when I made mine. Getting to your
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3, 2010
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        Hi Fred,

        I'm glad to hear that your crossflow condenser build worked out good, I did'nt think it was that hard either when I made mine.

        Getting to your questions. I take it your column setup is going to be a liquid management system (LM), just using a needle valve (or similar), to drip off the spirit?

        If that's the case, just use Harry's original design, make the dam in the crossflow condenser, and only use one off take tube from the bottom of one side of the crossflow shell. Then locate your valve where you need it.

        You could add a mini liebig condenser inline of the off take tube to cool the spirit down so you can measure it with alcometer. I did that but I changed it to a air cooled version

        http://tinyurl.com/ye3kwvo

        or air cooled LM tube in place on the column,

        http://tinyurl.com/y8oegs2

        Now going back to why I added the extra condenser drain line in? Because I thought about heads contamination like you have now. And the reflux drain line, to get the reflux overflow down pass the VM off take and below the temp gage. Do these Mods work? Well the way I see it is they don't fail, and the second condenser drain does Guarantee complete drainage.

        Here is picture just with one LM off take tube, bottom of the condenser. You can also see the VM off take and the temp gage tube poking out the front.

        http://tinyurl.com/ycu6g8k


        I hope that helps Fred and feel free to look at the other pic's for idea's.

        Cheers
        Marc

        Ps, Fred, you really don't need to make the slant plates.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "fred081646" <fred081646@...> wrote:
        >
        > My build is coming right along.
        >
        > I finished Harry's crossflow condenser. I tested it after soldering and it only had one small leak, which was easily fixed. I did all of the soldering with regular pipe solder. What I did was file the OD of the plates holding the tubes to fit inside the 2" pipe. I made a tight fit so they were held in place on their own. It really wasn't that hard of a job, it just takes some time. I set the plates in about 3/8" from the end and just let the solder flow around them. This allowed me to solder the plates and tubes at the same time.
        >
        > I know I did an overkill on the size of the condenser. Like Harry said some people were skeptical of it's ability and I was one of them so I went big. I just didn't want to go small and have to throw it away and build another. I can't bring myself to tell you how big it is. LOL
        >
        > I am not making a VM still at this time so I need to decide where I want to take the product from.
        >
        > In the photo's section under "Marc"s photos" I see where he is taking product from both sides of the condenser. Being that this condenser is very efficient would I lose a lot of product back down the column?
        > This would make for more reflux though.
        >
        > Also, would some foreshots and heads lay in the condenser and contaminate the hearts, being that each side of the condenser does not angle down to the column?
        >
        > My question, should I take the product from the condenser or from the plates in the column?
        >
        > Thank You Fred
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hi fellow constructors, While making Harry s cross flow head here s a little tip that can help position and hold all the pipes in the plate with a certain
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 4, 2010
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          Hi fellow constructors,

          While making Harry's cross flow head here's a little tip that can help position and hold all the pipes in the plate with a certain amount of stiffness and rigidity before you start to solder your cooling pipes. 

               Drill your holes in the plate as per the plan to suit the cooling pipes sizes.  Now with an oversize drill bit, counter sink the holes in the plates being careful not to drill right through.  Now position and rigidly support the other bottom end of the cooling pipe (in preparation for punching them).  Keep the cooling pipe slightly proud of the plate and with a big round countersink punch flare/swag the pipe end out on to the countersink in the plate. 

               This makes for a very tight slightly proud fit of the pipe in the plate.  The more firm you punch it the tighter the fit the better and the stronger the solder joint will be.  With the pipe being slightly proud it will let's the solder pool and thicken around the pipe end where it protrudes through on the plate.

          See diagram below

          Geoff 

          Crossflow Tip

           

        • rosnekcaj
          Hey - Geat idea! But I believe that a countersink would work much better than an over size drill to slightly bevel the edge of the end plate holes. rosnekcaj
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 5, 2010
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            Hey - Geat idea! But I believe that a countersink would work much better than an over size drill to slightly bevel the edge of the end plate holes.

            rosnekcaj

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi fellow constructors,
            >
            > While making Harry's cross flow head here's a little tip that can help
            > position and hold all the pipes in the plate with a certain amount of
            > stiffness and rigidity before you start to solder your cooling pipes.
            >
            > Drill your holes in the plate as per the plan to suit the cooling
            > pipes sizes. Now with an oversize drill bit, counter sink the holes in
            > the plates being careful not to drill right through. Now position and
            > rigidly support the other bottom end of the cooling pipe (in preparation
            > for punching them). Keep the cooling pipe slightly proud of the plate
            > and with a big round countersink punch flare/swag the pipe end out on to
            > the countersink in the plate.
            >
            > This makes for a very tight slightly proud fit of the pipe in the
            > plate. The more firm you punch it the tighter the fit the better and
            > the stronger the solder joint will be. With the pipe being slightly
            > proud it will let's the solder pool and thicken around the pipe end
            > where it protrudes through on the plate.
            >
            > See diagram below
            >
            > Geoff
            >
            > [Crossflow Tip]
            >
          • tgfoitwoods
            Hey Waldo and/or Geoff, This is a great and useful technique. Its what I used to hold the water-cooled baffles in my liebig (prior to soldering). These were
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 5, 2010
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              Hey Waldo and/or Geoff,

              This is a great and useful technique. Its what I used to hold the "water-cooled baffles" in my liebig (prior to soldering). These were 1/4 crosstubes through the 1/2" pipe of the vapor path. While I thought it a bit of a pain at the time, subsequent experiments have shown the crosstube liebig to produce lots more cooling than a similar but longer non-baffled liebig.

              Just another datum.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi fellow constructors,
              >
              > While making Harry's cross flow head here's a little tip that can help
              > position and hold all the pipes in the plate with a certain amount of
              > stiffness and rigidity before you start to solder your cooling pipes.
              >
              > Drill your holes in the plate as per the plan to suit the cooling
              > pipes sizes. Now with an oversize drill bit, counter sink the holes in
              > the plates being careful not to drill right through. Now position and
              > rigidly support the other bottom end of the cooling pipe (in preparation
              > for punching them). Keep the cooling pipe slightly proud of the plate
              > and with a big round countersink punch flare/swag the pipe end out on to
              > the countersink in the plate.
              >
              > This makes for a very tight slightly proud fit of the pipe in the
              > plate. The more firm you punch it the tighter the fit the better and
              > the stronger the solder joint will be. With the pipe being slightly
              > proud it will let's the solder pool and thicken around the pipe end
              > where it protrudes through on the plate.
              >
              > See diagram below
              >
              > Geoff
              >
              > [Crossflow Tip]
              >
            • geoff
              Hi rosnekcaj, A countersink would certainly be a better tool for the job but not everyone has a countersink bit so I was going with something I thought
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 5, 2010
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                Hi rosnekcaj,
                     A countersink would certainly be a better tool for the job but not everyone has a countersink bit so I was going with something I thought everyone should have available in their toolbox.  There is a sketch under "Geoffs Pics" in the photos section
                Geoff  
              • jamesonbeam1
                Give Geoff the credit on this one - he just asked me to post it for him. JB. ... water-cooled baffles in my liebig (prior to soldering). These were 1/4
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 5, 2010
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                  Give Geoff the credit on this one - he just asked me to post it for him.

                  JB.


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Waldo and/or Geoff,
                  >
                  > This is a great and useful technique. Its what I used to hold the
                  "water-cooled baffles" in my liebig (prior to soldering). These were 1/4
                  crosstubes through the 1/2" pipe of the vapor path. While I thought it a
                  bit of a pain at the time, subsequent experiments have shown the
                  crosstube liebig to produce lots more cooling than a similar but longer
                  non-baffled liebig.
                  >
                  > Just another datum.
                  >
                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                • Jan Ooms
                  Hi Mark, I looked at your pictures. You certainly have a impressive hobby setup. Can you email me on janooms10@yahoo.com if possible. Best Regards, Jan. ...
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 28, 2010
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                    Hi Mark,
                    I looked at your pictures. You certainly have a impressive hobby setup.
                    Can you email me on janooms10@... if possible.
                    Best Regards,
                    Jan.
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: mav
                    Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:14 AM
                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Crossflow Question

                     

                    Hi Fred,

                    I'm glad to hear that your crossflow condenser build worked out good, I did'nt think it was that hard either when I made mine.

                    Getting to your questions. I take it your column setup is going to be a liquid management system (LM), just using a needle valve (or similar), to drip off the spirit?

                    If that's the case, just use Harry's original design, make the dam in the crossflow condenser, and only use one off take tube from the bottom of one side of the crossflow shell. Then locate your valve where you need it.

                    You could add a mini liebig condenser inline of the off take tube to cool the spirit down so you can measure it with alcometer. I did that but I changed it to a air cooled version

                    http://tinyurl. com/ye3kwvo

                    or air cooled LM tube in place on the column,

                    http://tinyurl. com/y8oegs2

                    Now going back to why I added the extra condenser drain line in? Because I thought about heads contamination like you have now. And the reflux drain line, to get the reflux overflow down pass the VM off take and below the temp gage. Do these Mods work? Well the way I see it is they don't fail, and the second condenser drain does Guarantee complete drainage.

                    Here is picture just with one LM off take tube, bottom of the condenser. You can also see the VM off take and the temp gage tube poking out the front.

                    http://tinyurl. com/ycu6g8k

                    I hope that helps Fred and feel free to look at the other pic's for idea's.

                    Cheers
                    Marc

                    Ps, Fred, you really don't need to make the slant plates.

                    --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "fred081646" <fred081646@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > My build is coming right along.
                    >
                    > I finished Harry's crossflow condenser. I tested it after soldering and it only had one small leak, which was easily fixed. I did all of the soldering with regular pipe solder. What I did was file the OD of the plates holding the tubes to fit inside the 2" pipe. I made a tight fit so they were held in place on their own. It really wasn't that hard of a job, it just takes some time. I set the plates in about 3/8" from the end and just let the solder flow around them. This allowed me to solder the plates and tubes at the same time.
                    >
                    > I know I did an overkill on the size of the condenser. Like Harry said some people were skeptical of it's ability and I was one of them so I went big. I just didn't want to go small and have to throw it away and build another. I can't bring myself to tell you how big it is. LOL
                    >
                    > I am not making a VM still at this time so I need to decide where I want to take the product from.
                    >
                    > In the photo's section under "Marc"s photos" I see where he is taking product from both sides of the condenser. Being that this condenser is very efficient would I lose a lot of product back down the column?
                    > This would make for more reflux though.
                    >
                    > Also, would some foreshots and heads lay in the condenser and contaminate the hearts, being that each side of the condenser does not angle down to the column?
                    >
                    > My question, should I take the product from the condenser or from the plates in the column?
                    >
                    > Thank You Fred
                    >

                  • Mavnkaf nkaf
                    Hi Jan, I appreciate your comments about my hobby setup. It’s been a while since we last emailed. Anyway, How can I help you? Sorry for the late reply.
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 31, 2010
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                      Hi Jan,

                       

                      I appreciate your comments about my hobby setup.  It’s been a while since we last emailed.   Anyway,  How can I help you?

                       

                      Sorry for the late reply.

                       

                      Cheers

                      Marc

                       


                       

                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      From: jkooms@...
                      Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:47 +1000
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Crossflow Question

                       
                      Hi Mark,
                      I looked at your pictures. You certainly have a impressive hobby setup.
                      Can you email me on janooms10@yahoo. com if possible.
                      Best Regards,
                      Jan.
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: mav
                      Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:14 AM
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Crossflow Question

                       

                      Hi Fred,

                      I'm glad to hear that your crossflow condenser build worked out good, I did'nt think it was that hard either when I made mine.

                      Getting to your questions. I take it your column setup is going to be a liquid management system (LM), just using a needle valve (or similar), to drip off the spirit?

                      If that's the case, just use Harry's original design, make the dam in the crossflow condenser, and only use one off take tube from the bottom of one side of the crossflow shell. Then locate your valve where you need it.

                      You could add a mini liebig condenser inline of the off take tube to cool the spirit down so you can measure it with alcometer. I did that but I changed it to a air cooled version

                      http://tinyurl. com/ye3kwvo

                      or air cooled LM tube in place on the column,

                      http://tinyurl. com/y8oegs2

                      Now going back to why I added the extra condenser drain line in? Because I thought about heads contamination like you have now. And the reflux drain line, to get the reflux overflow down pass the VM off take and below the temp gage. Do these Mods work? Well the way I see it is they don't fail, and the second condenser drain does Guarantee complete drainage.

                      Here is picture just with one LM off take tube, bottom of the condenser. You can also see the VM off take and the temp gage tube poking out the front.

                      http://tinyurl. com/ycu6g8k

                      I hope that helps Fred and feel free to look at the other pic's for idea's.

                      Cheers
                      Marc

                      Ps, Fred, you really don't need to make the slant plates.

                      --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "fred081646" <fred081646@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > My build is coming right along.
                      >
                      > I finished Harry's crossflow condenser. I tested it after soldering and it only had one small leak, which was easily fixed. I did all of the soldering with regular pipe solder. What I did was file the OD of the plates holding the tubes to fit inside the 2" pipe. I made a tight fit so they were held in place on their own. It really wasn't that hard of a job, it just takes some time. I set the plates in about 3/8" from the end and just let the solder flow around them. This allowed me to solder the plates and tubes at the same time.
                      >
                      > I know I did an overkill on the size of the condenser. Like Harry said some people were skeptical of it's ability and I was one of them so I went big. I just didn't want to go small and have to throw it away and build another. I can't bring myself to tell you how big it is. LOL
                      >
                      > I am not making a VM still at this time so I need to decide where I want to take the product from.
                      >
                      > In the photo's section under "Marc"s photos" I see where he is taking product from both sides of the condenser. Being that this condenser is very efficient would I lose a lot of product back down the column?
                      > This would make for more reflux though.
                      >
                      > Also, would some foreshots and heads lay in the condenser and contaminate the hearts, being that each side of the condenser does not angle down to the column?
                      >
                      > My question, should I take the product from the condenser or from the plates in the column?
                      >
                      > Thank You Fred
                      >





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