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New Still Design Help

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  • Carter Raff
    I haven t posted in years but have the bug again. I just spent two full days cleaning and reorganizing my garage so I can once again have my large still
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 13, 2010
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      I haven't posted in years but have the bug again. I just spent two full days cleaning and reorganizing my garage so I can once again have my large still permanently setup.

      The main column is 4" copper and is 50" high packed with lots of copper mesh. I have a double boiler that holds 13 gallons of wash. What I started designing a few years ago was the head. I used to use different reflux heads but wanted to make one of the managment ones, not sure if it's vapor or liquid management.

      The boiler and column are fine but the head I would like some comments on.

      Here is a link to our photo section under the album Loucher, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/photos/album/1843332644/pic/1996452017/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

      This is a drawing of the head I built. It's a 4" copper pipe about 8" high and it clamps onto the column with clover clamps. On the bottom, as seen in the drawing, there is a plate with a 2" hole in the center and the hole has walls about 1" high. Then below the rim of the walls is the take off.

      Now what I remember when I was making is was you let it come up to temp at the top then let it reflux and equalize for 2 hours and then start taking off your foreshots and then go from there with the rest of the porduct.

      Oh BTW the top of the head will have a lot of coils of copper tube for the condenser.

      So my question is since the 2" hole in the center of the head has walls that are about 1" high it can hold about 1 or 2 cups of distillate. So for this type of system how much product should it be holding to get the most out of this system, because I can drill holes to have it drip back down the column. 1-2 seems to be a lot of product I wouldn't be able to take off the foreshots as they would be mixed in.
    • jay lagasse
      I don t have an answer as to how much that reservoir should hold ideally, but I do have a suggestion that would allow you to expiriment without causing
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 13, 2010
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        I don't have an answer as to how much that reservoir should hold ideally, but I do have a suggestion that would allow you to expiriment without causing permanent damage:
         
        Rather than drilling holes, just drop some chunks of material in the reservoir to take up volume.  Maybe some short scraps of tubing with the ends pinched shut or something.
         
        Jay
         
        BTW, it's a liquid management head you are running.

        --- On Sat, 2/13/10, Carter Raff <htcustom@...> wrote:

        From: Carter Raff <htcustom@...>
        Subject: [new_distillers] New Still Design Help
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 9:45 PM

         
        I haven't posted in years but have the bug again. I just spent two full days cleaning and reorganizing my garage so I can once again have my large still permanently setup.

        The main column is 4" copper and is 50" high packed with lots of copper mesh. I have a double boiler that holds 13 gallons of wash. What I started designing a few years ago was the head. I used to use different reflux heads but wanted to make one of the managment ones, not sure if it's vapor or liquid management.

        The boiler and column are fine but the head I would like some comments on.

        Here is a link to our photo section under the album Loucher, http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/new_ distillers/ photos/album/ 1843332644/ pic/1996452017/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

        This is a drawing of the head I built. It's a 4" copper pipe about 8" high and it clamps onto the column with clover clamps. On the bottom, as seen in the drawing, there is a plate with a 2" hole in the center and the hole has walls about 1" high. Then below the rim of the walls is the take off.

        Now what I remember when I was making is was you let it come up to temp at the top then let it reflux and equalize for 2 hours and then start taking off your foreshots and then go from there with the rest of the porduct.

        Oh BTW the top of the head will have a lot of coils of copper tube for the condenser.

        So my question is since the 2" hole in the center of the head has walls that are about 1" high it can hold about 1 or 2 cups of distillate. So for this type of system how much product should it be holding to get the most out of this system, because I can drill holes to have it drip back down the column. 1-2 seems to be a lot of product I wouldn't be able to take off the foreshots as they would be mixed in.


      • ric
        One simple answer. Place a 1 take off immediately below the 2 hole and create a VM path. There has been a lot of talk about this in my posts over the last
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 14, 2010
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          One simple answer.

          Place a 1" take off immediately below the 2" hole and create a VM path.
          There has been a lot of talk about this in my posts over the last few weeks.

          Have fun.



          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Carter Raff" <htcustom@...> wrote:
          >
          > I haven't posted in years but have the bug again. I just spent two full days cleaning and reorganizing my garage so I can once again have my large still permanently setup.
          >
          > The main column is 4" copper and is 50" high packed with lots of copper mesh. I have a double boiler that holds 13 gallons of wash. What I started designing a few years ago was the head. I used to use different reflux heads but wanted to make one of the managment ones, not sure if it's vapor or liquid management.
          >
          > The boiler and column are fine but the head I would like some comments on.
          >
          > Here is a link to our photo section under the album Loucher, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/photos/album/1843332644/pic/1996452017/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
          >
          > This is a drawing of the head I built. It's a 4" copper pipe about 8" high and it clamps onto the column with clover clamps. On the bottom, as seen in the drawing, there is a plate with a 2" hole in the center and the hole has walls about 1" high. Then below the rim of the walls is the take off.
          >
          > Now what I remember when I was making is was you let it come up to temp at the top then let it reflux and equalize for 2 hours and then start taking off your foreshots and then go from there with the rest of the porduct.
          >
          > Oh BTW the top of the head will have a lot of coils of copper tube for the condenser.
          >
          > So my question is since the 2" hole in the center of the head has walls that are about 1" high it can hold about 1 or 2 cups of distillate. So for this type of system how much product should it be holding to get the most out of this system, because I can drill holes to have it drip back down the column. 1-2 seems to be a lot of product I wouldn't be able to take off the foreshots as they would be mixed in.
          >
        • Carter Raff
          Thanks Jay, the simple answer is always the easiest, it s like dropping a brick in the toilet tank to conserve water. I m glad you mentioned that. The one
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 14, 2010
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            Thanks Jay, the simple answer is always the easiest, it's like dropping a brick in the toilet tank to conserve water. I'm glad you mentioned that.

            The one question I do have that is necessary is since I'm using a 4" column that's 50" high and a boiler that can handle 12 gallons of wash, double boiler style, what would the correct operating wattage be? I've got 220V and 120V I could use at the boiler. I tried doing the math from the book "Designing and Building Automatic Stills", but it severly confused me. Please help me determine the correct wattage I need for this rig during normal runs. Thanks.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jay lagasse <ak_jay.1976@...> wrote:
            >
            > I don't have an answer as to how much that reservoir should hold ideally, but I do have a suggestion that would allow you to expiriment without causing permanent damage:
            >  
            > Rather than drilling holes, just drop some chunks of material in the reservoir to take up volume.  Maybe some short scraps of tubing with the ends pinched shut or something.
            >  
            > Jay
            >  
            > BTW, it's a liquid management head you are running.
            >
            > --- On Sat, 2/13/10, Carter Raff <htcustom@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Carter Raff <htcustom@...>
            > Subject: [new_distillers] New Still Design Help
            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 9:45 PM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > I haven't posted in years but have the bug again. I just spent two full days cleaning and reorganizing my garage so I can once again have my large still permanently setup.
            >
            > The main column is 4" copper and is 50" high packed with lots of copper mesh. I have a double boiler that holds 13 gallons of wash. What I started designing a few years ago was the head. I used to use different reflux heads but wanted to make one of the managment ones, not sure if it's vapor or liquid management.
            >
            > The boiler and column are fine but the head I would like some comments on.
            >
            > Here is a link to our photo section under the album Loucher, http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/new_ distillers/ photos/album/ 1843332644/ pic/1996452017/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc
            >
            > This is a drawing of the head I built. It's a 4" copper pipe about 8" high and it clamps onto the column with clover clamps. On the bottom, as seen in the drawing, there is a plate with a 2" hole in the center and the hole has walls about 1" high. Then below the rim of the walls is the take off.
            >
            > Now what I remember when I was making is was you let it come up to temp at the top then let it reflux and equalize for 2 hours and then start taking off your foreshots and then go from there with the rest of the porduct.
            >
            > Oh BTW the top of the head will have a lot of coils of copper tube for the condenser.
            >
            > So my question is since the 2" hole in the center of the head has walls that are about 1" high it can hold about 1 or 2 cups of distillate. So for this type of system how much product should it be holding to get the most out of this system, because I can drill holes to have it drip back down the column. 1-2 seems to be a lot of product I wouldn't be able to take off the foreshots as they would be mixed in.
            >
          • ric
            Just think for a while and imagine how much heads would need to flow through that dam full of bits until all the foreshots are gone; then consider how much
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 14, 2010
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              Just think for a while and imagine how much heads would need to flow through that dam full of bits until all the foreshots are gone; then consider how much hearts would be needed to completely flush the heads and so on.Your cuts will be so blurred as to be impossible to pick.
              You would have to come to the conclusion it's no a practical solution.

              That will be lots of fun



              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Carter Raff" <htcustom@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Jay, the simple answer is always the easiest, it's like dropping a brick in the toilet tank to conserve water. I'm glad you mentioned that.
            • Carter Raff
              Ric, that s exactly why I was asking how much it should hold. Anyway, Ric, I was reading the recent posts of Tom making the LM/VM still as described in your
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 14, 2010
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                Ric, that's exactly why I was asking how much it should hold.

                Anyway, Ric, I was reading the recent posts of Tom making the LM/VM still as described in your sketch and I started thinking about my head that I started building and realized your head might be a lot better. So if you can answer some questions I'd appreciate it.

                1. I take it that this would work with a 4" column?

                2. Since I'm using a 4" column should the take off be bigger than 1"?

                3. What are the benefits to this design, I take it that it makes separating the Foreshots, Heads and Tails easier?

                4. What purity can I expect from this and what is the take off of heads ml/minute?

                5.How do I run this? Once the thermometer at the top registers vapor coming up how long do I let it reflux before taking off foreshots, how do I know when to stop taking foreshots and start taking heads?


                Thanks.



                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ric" <richutchings@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Just think for a while and imagine how much heads would need to flow through that dam full of bits until all the foreshots are gone; then consider how much hearts would be needed to completely flush the heads and so on.Your cuts will be so blurred as to be impossible to pick.
                > You would have to come to the conclusion it's no a practical solution.
                >
                > That will be lots of fun
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Carter Raff" <htcustom@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks Jay, the simple answer is always the easiest, it's like dropping a brick in the toilet tank to conserve water. I'm glad you mentioned that.
                >
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