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JEM Wash, where did it all go wrong?

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  • j0hnr0bb0
    Hi all i posted this (below) in distillers@ yahhoo , think i should have posted it here !!! right got some advise back, i got the ph up to 4.2 using
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 3, 2010
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      Hi all i posted this (below) in distillers@ yahhoo , think i should have posted it here !!!

      right got some advise back, i got the ph up to 4.2 using bicarbonate of soda,

      Ok its day 8 !!! wash is on 1.01 a few days left , where did it all go wrong?

      1st inverted sugar used (lazylemon) ingredients: water , concentrated lemon juice , preservative : potassium metabisulphite: ( Is this ok?)
      put in fridge over night.

      added water and Miracle-Gro to make 5gals aeration for 12hrs ( Is this ok?)
      got ph to 5.2 (using bi carb soda is this ok? ) it dropped to ph3 , got it back up, use cheap version Energy drink.

      i used 2 packs of ec -1118 yeast.

      Temp wash 26.c using aquarium heater

      I've also put some diammonium phospate to give it a kick on day 5 !!


      , i want to try another JEM Wash, what should i do differently ? ( Apart from use redbull)

      thanks for your help

      Robbo
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------

      POSTED IN DISTILLERS @ YAHOO

      Hi Jim / anybody

      Started a new JEM wash yesterday (Tuesday Morning) ph was 5.2 , today Wednesday morning the ph is 3 . the temp of the wash is 26c , the is not much activity a few very small bubbles , reading started of with 1.088 now 1.082 . ( I did invert sugar)
      ps( i did not use redbull or rock start - just a own brand from TESCO )
      questions are ...
      1) do i get the ph back up over 4?
      2) do i put a can of redbull in it ? (i shouldn't have use the cheap version !!!! They call me Duck !! (Tight arse)
      3) do i just leave it ?
      4) Any other comments ?

      Cheers,
      Robbo


      ----------------------------------------------------------------
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi ya John, So sorry been in the snowy region of Virgini (actually most of southern USA) helping dig people out from the last storm. God hate to live in
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 7, 2010
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        Hi ya John,

        So sorry been in the snowy region of Virgini (actually most of southern USA) helping dig people out from the last storm.  God hate to live in Alaska lol.  Now know why Obama calling this onet "Snowmageddon"....

        As far as your pH problems, Ive never have them using just plain ol'  lemon juice when inverting sugar.  Just the 2 tsp.  per pound of sugar should be ok and give you a pH of around 5.0  to 5.4 for sugar washes as Harry and others stated in Distillers.

        I have never used Lazylemon and my first problem is with that "perservative" you mentioned....

        Potassium metabisulfite is the main ingredient used in what us wine makers call "campden tablets" which are used to kill off wild yeasts and bacteria in fruit musts.  You must wait at least 24 hours  or more for the SO2 gases to release before pitching you yeast.  Otherwise you yeast will die or become severly stressed!!!

        Now as far as my JEM wash,  the 12 hours of aeration is fine, but as first mentioned, it requires several reiterations of fermentations to build up the trub (which is saved and reused) before you get the results I've had.   As I mentioned to Duane in previous postings, you need to build up the trub and maybe make the first 3 or 4 fermentations using the MUM method to build up the trub before just using energy drinks and the plant food nutrients (again you need to save it). 

        As the mentioned in Distillers, high volume sugar washes may cause the pH to drop as Dr. Cone states.  Let me know how much sugar you used please.  Before you attempt another JEM wash lets talk ok? 

        Thanks.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all i posted this (below) in distillers@ yahhoo , think i should have posted it here !!!
        >
        > right got some advise back, i got the ph up to 4.2 using bicarbonate of soda,
        >
        > Ok its day 8 !!! wash is on 1.01 a few days left , where did it all go wrong?
        >
        > 1st inverted sugar used (lazylemon) ingredients: water , concentrated lemon juice , preservative : potassium metabisulphite: ( Is this ok?)
        > put in fridge over night.
        >
        > added water and Miracle-Gro to make 5gals aeration for 12hrs ( Is this ok?)
        > got ph to 5.2 (using bi carb soda is this ok? ) it dropped to ph3 , got it back up, use cheap version Energy drink.
        >
        > i used 2 packs of ec -1118 yeast.
        >
        > Temp wash 26.c using aquarium heater
        >
        > I've also put some diammonium phospate to give it a kick on day 5 !!
        >
        >
        > , i want to try another JEM Wash, what should i do differently ? ( Apart from use redbull)
        >
        > thanks for your help
        >
        > Robbo
        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > POSTED IN DISTILLERS @ YAHOO
        >
        > Hi Jim / anybody
        >
        > Started a new JEM wash yesterday (Tuesday Morning) ph was 5.2 , today Wednesday morning the ph is 3 . the temp of the wash is 26c , the is not much activity a few very small bubbles , reading started of with 1.088 now 1.082 . ( I did invert sugar)
        > ps( i did not use redbull or rock start - just a own brand from TESCO )
        > questions are ...
        > 1) do i get the ph back up over 4?
        > 2) do i put a can of redbull in it ? (i shouldn't have use the cheap version !!!! They call me Duck !! (Tight arse)
        > 3) do i just leave it ?
        > 4) Any other comments ?
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Robbo
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
        >

      • j0hnr0bb0
        HI Jim, Thanks for the reply, hope you are all ok and safe . opps to late !!! i ve just started a wash today, used around 10lb of sugar inverted with not as
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 7, 2010
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          HI Jim,

          Thanks for the reply, hope you are all ok and safe .

          opps to late !!! i've just started a wash today, used around 10lb of sugar inverted with not as much lazy lemon , reading 1.10 , ( will use real lemons next time )
          I also used around 45% back set from last wash ( Is this ok ?)

          should i throw in the other ingredients from the mum wash now ? or just let it run ?

          should i put more ec -1118 in ?

          Ps used red pull this time.

          again my ph was low , put in bi card soda is this ok to use ?

          Cheers

          John

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi ya John,
          >
          > So sorry been in the snowy region of Virgini (actually most of southern
          > USA) helping dig people out from the last storm. God hate to live in
          > Alaska lol. Now know why Obama calling this onet "Snowmageddon"....
          >
          > As far as your pH problems, Ive never have them using just plain ol'
          > lemon juice when inverting sugar. Just the 2 tsp. per pound of sugar
          > should be ok and give you a pH of around 5.0 to 5.4 for sugar washes as
          > Harry and others stated in Distillers.
          >
          > I have never used Lazylemon and my first problem is with that
          > "perservative" you mentioned....
          >
          > Potassium metabisulfite is the main ingredient used in what us wine
          > makers call "campden tablets" which are used to kill off wild yeasts and
          > bacteria in fruit musts. You must wait at least 24 hours or more for
          > the SO2 gases to release before pitching you yeast. Otherwise you yeast
          > will die or become severly stressed!!!
          >
          > Now as far as my JEM wash, the 12 hours of aeration is fine, but as
          > first mentioned, it requires several reiterations of fermentations to
          > build up the trub (which is saved and reused) before you get the results
          > I've had. As I mentioned to Duane in previous postings, you need to
          > build up the trub and maybe make the first 3 or 4 fermentations using
          > the MUM method to build up the trub before just using energy drinks and
          > the plant food nutrients (again you need to save it).
          >
          > As the mentioned in Distillers, high volume sugar washes may cause the
          > pH to drop as Dr. Cone states. Let me know how much sugar you used
          > please. Before you attempt another JEM wash lets talk ok?
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim aka Waldo.
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all i posted this (below) in distillers@ yahhoo , think i should
          > have posted it here !!!
          > >
          > > right got some advise back, i got the ph up to 4.2 using bicarbonate
          > of soda,
          > >
          > > Ok its day 8 !!! wash is on 1.01 a few days left , where did it all go
          > wrong?
          > >
          > > 1st inverted sugar used (lazylemon) ingredients: water , concentrated
          > lemon juice , preservative : potassium metabisulphite: ( Is this ok?)
          > > put in fridge over night.
          > >
          > > added water and Miracle-Gro to make 5gals aeration for 12hrs ( Is this
          > ok?)
          > > got ph to 5.2 (oda is this ok? ) it dropped to ph3 ,bi carb using s
          > got it back up, use cheap version Energy drink.
          > >
          > > i used 2 packs of ec -1118 yeast.
          > >
          > > Temp wash 26.c using aquarium heater
          > >
          > > I've also put some diammonium phospate to give it a kick on day 5 !!
          > >
          > >
          > > , i want to try another JEM Wash, what should i do differently ? (
          > Apart from use redbull)
          > >
          > > thanks for your help
          > >
          > > Robbo
          > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > POSTED IN DISTILLERS @ YAHOO
          > >
          > > Hi Jim / anybody
          > >
          > > Started a new JEM wash yesterday (Tuesday Morning) ph was 5.2 , today
          > Wednesday morning the ph is 3 . the temp of the wash is 26c , the is not
          > much activity a few very small bubbles , reading started of with 1.088
          > now 1.082 . ( I did invert sugar)
          > > ps( i did not use redbull or rock start - just a own brand from TESCO
          > )
          > > questions are ...
          > > 1) do i get the ph back up over 4?
          > > 2) do i put a can of redbull in it ? (i shouldn't have use the cheap
          > version !!!! They call me Duck !! (Tight arse)
          > > 3) do i just leave it ?
          > > 4) Any other comments ?
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Robbo
          > >
          > >
          > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          Hey John, That should be ok, im sure most of the metabisulfite will be simmered away when inverting the sugar. Adding backset is not usually done with just
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 7, 2010
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            Hey John,

            That should be ok, im sure most of the metabisulfite will be simmered
            away when inverting the sugar. Adding backset is not usually done with
            just sugar washes. it is done with grain mashes and rum. It will lower
            the pH more so be careful. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is ok in
            moderation but tis better to use potassium bicabonate if available
            (yeast dont like sodium too much).

            And yes, for the first few fermentations, i would add some vitamin tabs
            but stay away from the epsom salts since they contain sulphur. There is
            enough magnesium in the plant food.

            Dr. MB Raines has stated that you can fermement sugar in just a nitrogen
            rich environment, but some MUM ingredients are good till you get enough
            trub (dont use any tomato paste - it is only good for the acid). Wait
            and see how the fermentation is going before adding more EC-1118. Red
            Bull is also ok and dont forget to aerate.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.




            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > HI Jim,
            >
            > Thanks for the reply, hope you are all ok and safe .
            >
            > opps to late !!! i've just started a wash today, used around 10lb of
            sugar inverted with not as much lazy lemon , reading 1.10 , ( will use
            real lemons next time )
            > I also used around 45% back set from last wash ( Is this ok ?)
            >
            > should i throw in the other ingredients from the mum wash now ? or
            just let it run ?
            >
            > should i put more ec -1118 in ?
            >
            > Ps used red pull this time.
            >
            > again my ph was low , put in bi card soda is this ok to use ?
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > John
            >
          • j0hnr0bb0
            Thanks Jim, taking it all on board , i ve found some potassium bicabonate on ebay , not sure if it is suitable its Laboratory grade !! ? can you please advise
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 8, 2010
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              Thanks Jim, taking it all on board , i've found some potassium bicabonate on ebay , not sure if it is suitable its Laboratory grade !! ? can you please advise link is below ,

              Cheers Mate,

              John

              http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100g-Potassium-Bicarbonate-Laboratory-Grade_W0QQitemZ290399822018QQcategoryZ104233QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7694305606783391471



              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hey John,
              >
              > That should be ok, im sure most of the metabisulfite will be simmered
              > away when inverting the sugar. Adding backset is not usually done with
              > just sugar washes. it is done with grain mashes and rum. It will lower
              > the pH more so be careful. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is ok in
              > moderation but tis better to use potassium bicabonate if available
              > (yeast dont like sodium too much).
              >
              > And yes, for the first few fermentations, i would add some vitamin tabs
              > but stay away from the epsom salts since they contain sulphur. There is
              > enough magnesium in the plant food.
              >
              > Dr. MB Raines has stated that you can fermement sugar in just a nitrogen
              > rich environment, but some MUM ingredients are good till you get enough
              > trub (dont use any tomato paste - it is only good for the acid). Wait
              > and see how the fermentation is going before adding more EC-1118. Red
              > Bull is also ok and dont forget to aerate.
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > HI Jim,
              > >
              > > Thanks for the reply, hope you are all ok and safe .
              > >
              > > opps to late !!! i've just started a wash today, used around 10lb of
              > sugar inverted with not as much lazy lemon , reading 1.10 , ( will use
              > real lemons next time )
              > > I also used around 45% back set from last wash ( Is this ok ?)
              > >
              > > should i throw in the other ingredients from the mum wash now ? or
              > just let it run ?
              > >
              > > should i put more ec -1118 in ?
              > >
              > > Ps used red pull this time.
              > >
              > > again my ph was low , put in bi card soda is this ok to use ?
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > >
              > > John
              > >
              >
            • jamesonbeam1
              Lab grade is fine John. Potassium bicarbonate (also known as potassium hydrogen carbonate or potassium acid carbonate), is a colorless, odorless, slightly
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 8, 2010
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                Lab grade is fine John. 

                "Potassium bicarbonate (also known as potassium hydrogen carbonate or potassium acid carbonate), is a colorless, odorless, slightly basic, salty substance. According to The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), potassium bicarbonate is "generally recognized as safe".

                Potassium bicarbonate is soluble in water, and is often found added to bottled water to affect taste;

                The compound is used as a source of carbon dioxide for leavening in baking, extinguishing fire in dry chemical fire extinguishers, acting as a reagent, and a strong buffering agent in medications.

                It is used as a base in foods to regulate pH. It is a common ingredient in club soda, where it is used to soften the effect of effervescence.

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim aka Waldo.


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Jim, taking it all on board , i've found some potassium bicabonate on ebay , not sure if it is suitable its Laboratory grade !! ? can you please advise link is below ,
                >
                > Cheers Mate,
                >
                > John

              • j0hnr0bb0
                Hey Jim !! This one worked out in 4 days !! (second batch) Can i clear it with irish moss ? ,or Just leave it to settle its self ? Starting Next batch
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 10, 2010
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                  Hey Jim !!

                  This one worked out in 4 days !! (second batch)

                  Can i clear it with irish moss ? ,or Just leave it to settle its self ?

                  Starting Next batch tomorrow(Thursday), using real lemons and Potassium bicarbonate and fresh water !!!
                  will post results,

                  Cheers

                  Robbo

                  P.s Thanks for all your help and patience !!!

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Lab grade is fine John.
                  >
                  > "Potassium bicarbonate (also known as potassium hydrogen carbonate or
                  > potassium acid carbonate), is a colorless, odorless, slightly basic
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_(chemistry)> , salty substance.
                  > According to The US Food and Drug Administration
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_Drug_Administration> (FDA),
                  > potassium bicarbonate is "generally recognized as safe
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_recognized_as_safe> ".
                  >
                  > Potassium bicarbonate is soluble <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soluble>
                  > in water <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water> , and is often found added
                  > to bottled water to affect taste <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste> ;
                  >
                  > The compound is used as a source of carbon dioxide
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide> for leavening
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavening> in baking, extinguishing fire
                  > in dry chemical fire extinguishers
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher> , acting as a reagent
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagent> , and a strong buffering agent
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffering_agent> in medications.
                  >
                  > It is used as a base in foods to regulate pH
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidity_regulator> . It is a common
                  > ingredient in club soda, where it is used to soften the effect of
                  > effervescence.
                  >
                  > Vino es Veritas,
                  >
                  > Jim aka Waldo.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Jim, taking it all on board , i've found some potassium
                  > bicabonate on ebay , not sure if it is suitable its Laboratory grade !!
                  > ? can you please advise link is below ,
                  > >
                  > > Cheers Mate,
                  > >
                  > > John
                  >
                • jamesonbeam1
                  Welp John, Thats about norm for 1118, when you start getting more and more trub, you will see the time going down. I ve never had any problems with clearing
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 10, 2010
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                    Welp John,

                    Thats about norm for 1118, when you start getting more and more trub,
                    you will see the time going down. I've never had any problems with
                    clearing since it flocculates very well to the bottom. You can try the
                    irish moss if you want.

                    Vino es Veritas,

                    Jim aka Waldo.

                    ______________________________________________________


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Jim !!
                    >
                    > This one worked out in 4 days !! (second batch)
                    >
                    > Can i clear it with irish moss ? ,or Just leave it to settle its self
                    ?
                    >
                    > Starting Next batch tomorrow(Thursday), using real lemons and
                    Potassium bicarbonate and fresh water !!!
                    > will post results,
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    >
                    > Robbo
                    >
                    > P.s Thanks for all your help and patience !!!
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Lab grade is fine John.
                    > >
                    > > "Potassium bicarbonate (also known as potassium hydrogen carbonate
                    or
                    > > potassium acid carbonate), is a colorless, odorless, slightly basic
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_(chemistry)> , salty substance.
                    > > According to The US Food and Drug Administration
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_Drug_Administration> (FDA),
                    > > potassium bicarbonate is "generally recognized as safe
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_recognized_as_safe> ".
                    > >
                    > > Potassium bicarbonate is soluble
                    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soluble>
                    > > in water <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water> , and is often found
                    added
                    > > to bottled water to affect taste
                    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste> ;
                    > >
                    > > The compound is used as a source of carbon dioxide
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide> for leavening
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavening> in baking, extinguishing
                    fire
                    > > in dry chemical fire extinguishers
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher> , acting as a
                    reagent
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagent> , and a strong buffering
                    agent
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffering_agent> in medications.
                    > >
                    > > It is used as a base in foods to regulate pH
                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidity_regulator> . It is a common
                    > > ingredient in club soda, where it is used to soften the effect of
                    > > effervescence.
                    > >
                    > > Vino es Veritas,
                    > >
                    > > Jim aka Waldo.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "j0hnr0bb0" <robbojohn@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks Jim, taking it all on board , i've found some potassium
                    > > bicabonate on ebay , not sure if it is suitable its Laboratory grade
                    !!
                    > > ? can you please advise link is below ,
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers Mate,
                    > > >
                    > > > John
                    > >
                    >
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