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Re: [new_distillers]45gall cider

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  • ups474@aol.com
    Actually- malo-lactic fermentation can be induced. Lalvin makes a small expensive packet of the culture (it s $US12.95 for two grams- enough for 50 gallons or
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2002
      Actually- malo-lactic fermentation can be induced. Lalvin makes a small
      expensive packet of the culture (it's $US12.95 for two grams- enough for 50
      gallons or so.)
      Malo lactic bacteria are really picky, that is the problem. It doesn't like
      high alcohol- with cider that shouldn't be a problem. It hates sulfites-
      even 25ppm free sulfite will kill it- total sulfite over 100ppm- even if none
      of it is free, will also kill ML bacteria. It also isn't fond of low
      temperatures- they prefer to work in a wine at 75 to 80F. The last condition
      is low Ph. It works in red wines at a Ph of 3.3 or more, and white wine at a
      Ph of 3.1 or more. You can get by with any one of the above conditions not
      being right- but if more than one is wrong- it won't work. It also helps to
      use yeast ENERGIZER type of nutrient (the kind made out of dead yeast, NOT
      the chemical- they don't use diammonium phosphate.) Do a cool ferment, with
      no sulfite, then raise the temp to 75-80F, check the Ph (adjusting it as
      needed), and some yeast extract nutrient, and stir the lees and nutrients up
      from the bottom of the fermenter once or twice a week. For a sweet cider-
      you could also try the French cider method. The sweet cider from the grocery
      store works with this method- it has no sulfite in it- it's heat/UV
      pasteurized. For every 100Liters of juice, add 30grams of calcium carbonate,
      and 40grams of table salt along with the yeast. The salt and carbonate will
      cause the juice pectin to thicken, and form a brown cap (held up by the CO2
      from the ferment). After about 8 days, there should be a solid brown layer
      on top, and a sediment layer on the bottom, siphon the cider out from between
      these two layers- it should be very clear. This procedure should take place
      at no more than 60F (ideally between 50 and 55F). The forming of the brown
      pectin layer will have stripped alot of the nitrogen based natural yeast
      nutrient from the juice- this, along with the (continued) cool ferment at 50
      to 55F, will slow the yeast way down- more than likely, the yeast will give
      up before all the sugar is consumed due to a lack of nutrient (a purposely
      induced stuck ferment)- this will give a naturally sweet cider that has a
      great flavor and aroma- becuase a hot, fast ferment hasn't driven off the
      delicate flavors. You can also just ferment out a normal cider with no
      special treatment, bottle it like beer- when it's totally dry- then, when you
      want a drink, take a gallon of fresh, unfermented sweet cider, and slowly
      cook it in a double boiler until it is reduced to one fifth it's original
      volume (for a gallon- this is less than a quart). You can store this apple
      concentrate in a squeeze bottle, in the fridge. When you want a sweet,
      sparkling, hard cider, just put a splash of the concentrate to your glass,
      and pour the hard cider out of the glass onto it- instant sweet and hard,
      sparkling cider! Also- I have found that about a half ounce of French oak
      chips (raw- untoasted) per gallon of cider, added with the yeast and left
      throughout the ferment/aging, REALLY adds something to the ordinary hard,
      champagne like cider you normally get by just tossing yeast into a jug of the
      sweet juice. I Just add enough vodka to cover the wood chips, let them sit
      for 30 minutes, then add them with the yeast to the juice. Hopefully this
      long e-mail will help someone this next fall- I gotta go brew some beer.
      (Bavarian Helles, to be exact). -Cheers!
    • John Vandermeulen
      So, where were you why I needed you most - last fall crushing a ton of apples, made into some of the most expensive vinegar available. Thanks for the info, I
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2002
        So, where were you why I needed you most - last fall crushing a ton of apples,
        made into some of the most expensive vinegar available.
        Thanks for the info, I may just try it all over again,
        John V
      • ups474@aol.com
        It might be more expensive- but instead of milling your own apples just call ahead and have the people running the orchard prepare the juice for you ahead of
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2002
          It might be more expensive- but instead of milling your own apples just call
          ahead and have the people running the orchard prepare the juice for you ahead
          of time. By the way- do you know what type of apple you were using?- I've
          been trying to find Kingstong Black apples for 2 years- it's a very old cider
          apple from England- I'm starting to think no one grows it anymore. Another
          hint: When crushed, cider apples (as well as wild and crab apples) tend to
          produce a more granular, dry pulp than dessert types, which, when ground,
          look like a soupy applesauce. As to my whereabouts last fall- I don't
          remember- I think that the memory loss has something to do with a batch of
          apple-jack (freeze concentrated cider), and a batch of banana champagne that
          were blended last year at the begining of the apple harvest season.
        • Rev. David M Cunningham
          Message 4 of 6 , May 1, 2002
            << My mash was extremely mouth-puckering tart, apparently due to buildup of
            the malic acid . . . It was very disappointing, as I had looked forward to a
            nice sparkling hard apple wine. >>

            Well, another reason for the tart flavor can be from the fact that cider is
            made with tart apples whereas "traditional" apple wine is made with sweeter
            apples. The result of cider fermented out to wine levels will afford a tart
            tasting wine.

            Your Brother in Spirit,
            Rev. David M. Cunningham
            distiller@...

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          • John Vandermeulen
            ... I used a wide variety of apples, whatever was available at the time. Nova Scotia has extensive apple orchards - except of course that they are all
            Message 5 of 6 , May 2, 2002
              > By the way- do you know what type of apple you were using?-

              I used a wide variety of apples, whatever was available at the time. Nova Scotia
              has extensive apple orchards - except of course that they are all
              eating/pie/juice apples - sorry , no Kingston Black.I did find some suppliers of
              some of the English/Normandy plants/scions through out the US, also one in B.C.
              near Vancouver - on the web.

              > I've
              > been trying to find Kingstong Black apples for 2 years- it's a very old cider
              > apple from England- I'm starting to think no one grows it anymore. Another
              > hint: When crushed, cider apples (as well as wild and crab apples) tend to
              > produce a more granular, dry pulp than dessert types, which, when ground,
              > look like a soupy applesauce. As to my whereabouts last fall- I don't
              > remember- I think that the memory loss has something to do with a batch of
              > apple-jack (freeze concentrated cider),

              I do think that I will have another go at this cider thing, but for pot
              distilling. I can make ca. 23L at a time - ferment it, and pot distill. My
              potstill column seems to like producing 50-55%abv, so if I distill it once and
              collect down to 40%abv, that should yield an apple-y spirit. I think that I will
              get myself a few litres of apple juice and experiment.John V

              > and a batch of banana champagne that
              > were blended last year at the begining of the apple harvest season.
              >
              >
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