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whiskey trub questions

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  • billfitz49
    Does anyone save and use the trub left over from all grain whiskey washes? After fermentation is complete, I ve been heating my all grain washes to 160 F to
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 28, 2009
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      Does anyone save and use the trub left over from all grain whiskey washes?
      After fermentation is complete, I've been heating my all grain washes to 160 F to kill the yeast and then I wait a few days for the trub to settle out before siphoning the wash to the boiler. The trub is dead but must be loaded with nutrients. Does anyone use it to provide nutrients for neutral sugar washes?
    • jamesonbeam1
      Welp Bill, If your into sour mash whiskey, then re-using the trub without heating and killing off the yeast is SOP for your next generations of sour mash
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 29, 2009
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        Welp Bill,

        If your into sour mash whiskey, then re-using the trub without heating
        and killing off the yeast is SOP for your next generations of sour mash
        fermentations. Rum makers also reuse their leftover trub (barm) for the
        next fermentations - part of the dunder process.

        For what your doing however, that stuff makes great nutrients for yeast.
        If ya came from down under like some of the MKOs (Most Knowlegable Ones)
        around here do, the you would of heard of "Vegemite" (as in sandwich)
        which is nothing more then brewers extract or "Marmite" in the UK, South
        Africa or New Zealand, which is much saltier. Vegemite and Brewer's
        extract (your trub) is often used in recipies around here for nutrients
        in fermentations. Look it up.

        I usually take about 1/4 of my trub and boil it up as nutrients when
        making sour mash whiskey.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone save and use the trub left over from all grain whiskey
        washes?
        > After fermentation is complete, I've been heating my all grain washes
        to 160 F to kill the yeast and then I wait a few days for the trub to
        settle out before siphoning the wash to the boiler. The trub is dead but
        must be loaded with nutrients. Does anyone use it to provide nutrients
        for neutral sugar washes?
        >
      • billfitz49
        Thanks, Jim. That brings up another question: How much backset do you use? For a 19 gallon all grain (corn, rye and barley malt, no sugar) I added 11 liters
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 30, 2009
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          Thanks, Jim. That brings up another question:
          How much backset do you use? For a 19 gallon all grain (corn, rye and barley malt, no sugar) I added 11 liters of backset. I would have liked to use more but didn't because I read somewhere that the enzymes work best at 5.2 pH.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Welp Bill,
          >
          > If your into sour mash whiskey, then re-using the trub without heating
          > and killing off the yeast is SOP for your next generations of sour mash
          > fermentations. Rum makers also reuse their leftover trub (barm) for the
          > next fermentations - part of the dunder process.
          >
          > For what your doing however, that stuff makes great nutrients for yeast.
          > If ya came from down under like some of the MKOs (Most Knowlegable Ones)
          > around here do, the you would of heard of "Vegemite" (as in sandwich)
          > which is nothing more then brewers extract or "Marmite" in the UK, South
          > Africa or New Zealand, which is much saltier. Vegemite and Brewer's
          > extract (your trub) is often used in recipies around here for nutrients
          > in fermentations. Look it up.
          >
          > I usually take about 1/4 of my trub and boil it up as nutrients when
          > making sour mash whiskey.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim aka Waldo.
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Does anyone save and use the trub left over from all grain whiskey
          > washes?
          > > After fermentation is complete, I've been heating my all grain washes
          > to 160 F to kill the yeast and then I wait a few days for the trub to
          > settle out before siphoning the wash to the boiler. The trub is dead but
          > must be loaded with nutrients. Does anyone use it to provide nutrients
          > for neutral sugar washes?
          > >
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          Good question Bill, This has been the topic of much discussion in the past. The minimum requirement for a Sour Mash Bourbon is 25%. Ian Smiley has
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 30, 2009
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            Good question Bill,

            This has been the topic of much discussion in the past. The minimum
            requirement for a "Sour Mash" Bourbon is 25%. Ian Smiley has mentioned
            in his book to use 100% backset and water for any distilled out, then
            use chemicals to increase the pH back.

            Personally, I tend to disagree with this and have found that 40% to 50%
            backset provides the flavors and keeps the pH around 5.4 or so. But
            this depends on how acidic it becomes.

            I would check your acidity and tritrate a sample out to see how much you
            can add to keep it around the 5.0 pH level. You should be able to add
            more then just 11 liters per 19 gallons me thinks.

            At any rate, keep in mind the more backset added, the more aeration you
            will need since all the usable O2 has been boiled out.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks, Jim. That brings up another question:
            > How much backset do you use? For a 19 gallon all grain (corn, rye and
            barley malt, no sugar) I added 11 liters of backset. I would have liked
            to use more but didn't because I read somewhere that the enzymes work
            best at 5.2 pH.
          • jamesonbeam1
            Sidenote, Ment to say this depends on how acidic your backset becomes. This depends on several factors such as starting pH level, yeast strain, grain bill,
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 30, 2009
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              Sidenote,

              Ment to say this depends on how acidic your backset becomes. This
              depends on several factors such as starting pH level, yeast strain,
              grain bill, amount distilled out, etc.

              Anyways, test the acidity of your backset - mine usually runs about 4.0
              or so pH. Then titrate out a sample.

              Regards,

              JB.
            • Paul Smith
              When I do a mixed grain batch the cracked well soaked grains post fermentation (they are only there for flavour after all) get dried (food/fruit drier) and
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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                When I do a mixed grain batch the cracked well soaked grains post fermentation (they are only there for flavour after all) get dried (food/fruit drier) and used to make bread. Gives the bread a really great taste, sort of malty, but also nutty. Hard to describe, but well worth the effort of drying the trub to get!
                 
                P.

                --- On Sat, 28/11/09, billfitz49 <billfitz@...> wrote:

                From: billfitz49 <billfitz@...>
                Subject: [new_distillers] whiskey trub questions
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Saturday, 28 November, 2009, 10:11 PM

                 
                Does anyone save and use the trub left over from all grain whiskey washes?
                After fermentation is complete, I've been heating my all grain washes to 160 F to kill the yeast and then I wait a few days for the trub to settle out before siphoning the wash to the boiler. The trub is dead but must be loaded with nutrients. Does anyone use it to provide nutrients for neutral sugar washes?



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              • gnikomson2000
                ... Now you ve piqued my interest! As a batch/scratch baker of some 35+ yrs standing, I m extremely interested in your breadmaking methods using the trub.
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <praxis178@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > When I do a mixed grain batch the cracked well soaked grains post fermentation (they are only there for flavour after all) get dried (food/fruit drier) and used to make bread. Gives the bread a really great taste, sort of malty, but also nutty. Hard to describe, but well worth the effort of drying the trub to get!
                  >  
                  > P.



                  Now you've piqued my interest! As a batch/scratch baker of some 35+ yrs standing, I'm extremely interested in your breadmaking methods using the trub. Paul, can you provide a little more info?

                  I used to make a multi-grain loaf (9-grain) with soaked grains (o'nite) and chopped mxd nuts. Won a couple of awards with that one.

                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • tgfoitwoods
                  Good job, Paul, I m an allgrain brewer, and the spent grain from my Scotch ale and foreign extra stout makes *killer* muffins, with flavor just like you say.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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                    Good job, Paul,

                    I'm an allgrain brewer, and the spent grain from my Scotch ale and foreign extra stout makes *killer* muffins, with flavor just like you say. In addition, this grain is low-carbohydrate, because we drank all the starch, sorta.

                    This has me thinking; maybe Scotch ale pancakes. Ooohh

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <praxis178@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > When I do a mixed grain batch the cracked well soaked grains post fermentation (they are only there for flavour after all) get dried (food/fruit drier) and used to make bread. Gives the bread a really great taste, sort of malty, but also nutty. Hard to describe, but well worth the effort of drying the trub to get!
                    >  
                    > P.
                    >
                    ----snip----
                  • Paul Smith
                    OK, first this isn t the druff from a leutering of a malt mash we re talking about, but the grains from a simple grain flavoured sugar wash. (4lbs of mixed
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 5, 2009
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                      OK, first this isn't the druff from a leutering of a malt mash we're talking about, but the grains from a simple grain flavoured sugar wash. (4lbs of mixed grains, I use poultry feed the unsupplemented kind, 6lbs of sugar and water to make ~5gals), I found that if you cracked the grains not only did the flavour improve, but also the yield..
                       
                      Right back to the bread!
                       
                      Using a normal wholemeal flour (only need a couple of table spoons at the this point) make up your yeast water (750ml) mix + ~1Tbs of oil and salt and sugar and one whole egg. Let the yeast get going, once bubbles start add 2cups of the dried trub (grainy yeast sludge) and some more flour. You want the mix to be liquid but still quite gooey. Leave this goo for a couple of hours in a warm spot to really get going. Now as you walk past during the day add more flour till the mix is about ready to knead. At this point turn it out of the mixing bowl and start kneading. Divide into two equal loaves and bake at 220C for 45mins after proving etc.
                       
                      Now for the optional extras! This is also a "medicinal" bread if you add the following seeds:
                      Pumpkin seeds: small mound in the palm of your hand.
                      Pine nuts: small mound in the palm....
                      Sunflower seeds: same amount.
                       
                      These seeds are known to reduce the risks of prostate problems in a Mediterranean diet.
                       
                      Now when I make this I usually "just do it" with out giving things much thought, so I may have left out something, so if it sounds like something is missing or doesn't seem right let me know and I'll make some notes when I make the next batch (Tuesday-ish). This bread has won "best in show" a couple of times and best whole grain bread more times than I care to count!
                       
                      P.

                      --- On Tue, 1/12/09, gnikomson2000 <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

                      From: gnikomson2000 <gnikomson2000@...>
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: whiskey trub questions
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 10:00 AM

                       


                      --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Smith <praxis178@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > When I do a mixed grain batch the cracked well soaked grains post fermentation (they are only there for flavour after all) get dried (food/fruit drier) and used to make bread. Gives the bread a really great taste, sort of malty, but also nutty. Hard to describe, but well worth the effort of drying the trub to get!
                      >  
                      > P.

                      Now you've piqued my interest! As a batch/scratch baker of some 35+ yrs standing, I'm extremely interested in your breadmaking methods using the trub. Paul, can you provide a little more info?

                      I used to make a multi-grain loaf (9-grain) with soaked grains (o'nite) and chopped mxd nuts. Won a couple of awards with that one.

                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry



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