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Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners

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  • schnakeus
    Jim and all, Sorry Andy, I shouldn t have recommended plastic, although I was talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor and
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
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      Jim and all,
      Sorry Andy, I shouldn't have recommended plastic, although I was talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor and bottle). I also use glass. I don't want to mislead anyone. Jan, are you sure it is absolutely that dangerous? I'm no chemistry major. Anyway it's a decent rum recipe. And glass is best. Shame on me!

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > OK Guys,
      >
      > Didn't mean to start a flame war here. I was being a bit facetious and
      > "tounge in cheek" when asking for comments on Schnakeus' recommendation
      > to Andy about using plastic milk bottles to age 60% (120 proof) rum in.
      >
      > To try and put this in perspective, plastics are fine for primary
      > fermentations of up to 20% or so ABV. This is what would be considered
      > "pre-distilled" product. For distilling and "post-distilled" products
      > we are going to drink, there are only certain plastics that are ethanol
      > tolerant, and even then, drinkable stuff over 100 proof should not be
      > stored in them for any length of time. Riku, a moderator and well known
      > still designer here can tell you which plastics are ok for this (like
      > the Amazing Still). However, used plastic milk containers definitely DO
      > NOT contain one of these.....
      >
      > The only approved and recommended plastic containers for holding
      > drinkable ethanol products for any prolonged period of time (again under
      > 50% or 100 proof), are the specially coated PET liquor bottles they came
      > out with about 10 years ago. These have special coatings which form a
      > barrier between the ethanol and the plastic.
      >
      > Please do not store or try and age your "barrel strength" products in
      > any type of plastic containers. USE GLASS or oak barrels. PLEASE.
      >
      > Remember this Schnakeus for Gosh sake. Below is a posting by Harry from
      > Advanced Distillers on PET bottles and their coatings.
      >
      > Vino es Veritas,
      >
      > Jim aka Waldo.
      >
      > repost of Distillers group msg# 39312
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39312>
      > Re: Angels share?
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Good information Harry,
      > >
      > > Now few more things. As an example polypropylene seems to be OK for
      > > medium term STORAGE of medium strength ethanol. That's not aging but
      > > storage. PET bottles I've had trouble with. I once stored some 30-40%
      > > low wines temporarily (for few hours) into a thin walled pet bottle
      > > and it deformed. What we need to remember here is that we are not
      > > dealing exclusively with ethanol, rather flavored drinks and
      > > especially low-wines have many other higher+lower boiling point
      > > alcohols + other chemicals. The combined effect of all these is quite
      > > impossible to determine without empirical testing.
      > >
      > > Cheers, Riku
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I'm in the middle of doing up a paper on plastic containers in
      > distilling. It'll take me a while to finish. But as to your
      > experiences with PET bottles...time & technology march on relentlessly.
      > The reason they've been able to use PET for beverages like Early Times &
      > Ancient Age whiskey for the last 10 years (and I believe Jim Beam is
      > now using it), is because of the great advances in coating or barrier
      > substances and processes.
      >
      >
      >
      > The pet bottles of today are a far cry from those of even 3 or 4 years
      > ago. There's also PET bottles tailor-made for specific fills, like
      > carbonated drinks and hot-fill juices in PET bottles that don't distort
      > and whose contents have a shelf life requirement of longer than 9
      > months.
      >
      > The barrier coatings range from the organic coatings (epoxyamine aka
      > Bairocade) developed in the mid 1990s to lengthen the shelf life of the
      > smaller soft drink sizes in hotter climates, then for beer, to the
      > latest plasma-applied inorganic coatings, using carbon or silicon.
      >
      > It's a brave new world, particularly for we adventurous distillers.
      >
      >
      > Slainte!
      > regards Harry
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi YMMV,
      > > I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want it
      > on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking mates.
      > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons
      > delight in future.
      > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation
      > to alcohol useage and storage.
      > > Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in
      > regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
      > > Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
      > > Best Regards,
      > > Jan.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: macrobert@
      > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
      > beginners
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that
      > it gets flavours from the plastic.
      > > YMMV
      > >
      > >
      > > Robbie Mac
      > > Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@
      > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
      > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
      > beginners
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi All,
      > > After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics
      > in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in
      > New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a
      > brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
      > > "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1
      > Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple
      > weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre
      > really mellows."
      > > Thanks,
      > > Vino es Veritas,
      > > Jim aka Waldo.
      > >
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi Schnakeus, No big deal at all. This hobby is constant learning curve and im glad this was brough out in the open. Just hope people now relize when and
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 3, 2009
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        Hi Schnakeus,

        No big deal at all. This hobby is constant learning curve and im glad
        this was brough out in the open. Just hope people now relize when and
        where to use plastics. My views are simply that its better safe then
        sorry, so I stay away from plastics in any post-distilled product.

        And yes, your recipe is a good one, and especially interesting adding
        the essences as well. The only constructive criticism would be taking
        it all the way up to 21% ABV. This is the very upper limit of the turbo
        yeast's tolerance and may cause some unwanted flavors and stess them
        out. Not to mention the heat being generated.

        I use about the same ratios of sugars to molasses, but usually go no
        more then 14% ABV for rums, while the commercial rum makers usually
        shoot for around 10% ABV. Lower ABVs in your fermentation will allow
        more flavors to come through.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "schnakeus" <schnake1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jim and all,
        > Sorry Andy, I shouldn't have recommended plastic, although I was
        talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor
        and bottle). I also use glass. I don't want to mislead anyone. Jan, are
        you sure it is absolutely that dangerous? I'm no chemistry major. Anyway
        it's a decent rum recipe. And glass is best. Shame on me!
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
        wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > OK Guys,
        > >
        > > Didn't mean to start a flame war here. I was being a bit facetious
        and
        > > "tounge in cheek" when asking for comments on Schnakeus'
        recommendation
        > > to Andy about using plastic milk bottles to age 60% (120 proof) rum
        in.
        > >
        > > To try and put this in perspective, plastics are fine for primary
        > > fermentations of up to 20% or so ABV. This is what would be
        considered
        > > "pre-distilled" product. For distilling and "post-distilled"
        products
        > > we are going to drink, there are only certain plastics that are
        ethanol
        > > tolerant, and even then, drinkable stuff over 100 proof should not
        be
        > > stored in them for any length of time. Riku, a moderator and well
        known
        > > still designer here can tell you which plastics are ok for this
        (like
        > > the Amazing Still). However, used plastic milk containers definitely
        DO
        > > NOT contain one of these.....
        > >
        > > The only approved and recommended plastic containers for holding
        > > drinkable ethanol products for any prolonged period of time (again
        under
        > > 50% or 100 proof), are the specially coated PET liquor bottles they
        came
        > > out with about 10 years ago. These have special coatings which form
        a
        > > barrier between the ethanol and the plastic.
        > >
        > > Please do not store or try and age your "barrel strength" products
        in
        > > any type of plastic containers. USE GLASS or oak barrels. PLEASE.
        > >
        > > Remember this Schnakeus for Gosh sake. Below is a posting by Harry
        from
        > > Advanced Distillers on PET bottles and their coatings.
        > >
        > > Vino es Veritas,
        > >
        > > Jim aka Waldo.
        > >
        > > repost of Distillers group msg# 39312
        > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39312>
        > > Re: Angels share?
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Good information Harry,
        > > >
        > > > Now few more things. As an example polypropylene seems to be OK
        for
        > > > medium term STORAGE of medium strength ethanol. That's not aging
        but
        > > > storage. PET bottles I've had trouble with. I once stored some
        30-40%
        > > > low wines temporarily (for few hours) into a thin walled pet
        bottle
        > > > and it deformed. What we need to remember here is that we are not
        > > > dealing exclusively with ethanol, rather flavored drinks and
        > > > especially low-wines have many other higher+lower boiling point
        > > > alcohols + other chemicals. The combined effect of all these is
        quite
        > > > impossible to determine without empirical testing.
        > > >
        > > > Cheers, Riku
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm in the middle of doing up a paper on plastic containers in
        > > distilling. It'll take me a while to finish. But as to your
        > > experiences with PET bottles...time & technology march on
        relentlessly.
        > > The reason they've been able to use PET for beverages like Early
        Times &
        > > Ancient Age whiskey for the last 10 years (and I believe Jim Beam is
        > > now using it), is because of the great advances in coating or
        barrier
        > > substances and processes.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The pet bottles of today are a far cry from those of even 3 or 4
        years
        > > ago. There's also PET bottles tailor-made for specific fills, like
        > > carbonated drinks and hot-fill juices in PET bottles that don't
        distort
        > > and whose contents have a shelf life requirement of longer than 9
        > > months.
        > >
        > > The barrier coatings range from the organic coatings (epoxyamine aka
        > > Bairocade) developed in the mid 1990s to lengthen the shelf life of
        the
        > > smaller soft drink sizes in hotter climates, then for beer, to the
        > > latest plasma-applied inorganic coatings, using carbon or silicon.
        > >
        > > It's a brave new world, particularly for we adventurous distillers.
        > >
        > >
        > > Slainte!
        > > regards Harry
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi YMMV,
        > > > I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want
        it
        > > on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking
        mates.
        > > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a
        surgeons
        > > delight in future.
        > > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in
        relation
        > > to alcohol useage and storage.
        > > > Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in
        > > regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
        > > > Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
        > > > Best Regards,
        > > > Jan.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: macrobert@
        > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
        > > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies
        for
        > > beginners
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above
        that
        > > it gets flavours from the plastic.
        > > > YMMV
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Robbie Mac
        > > > Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@
        > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
        > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
        > > beginners
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi All,
        > > > After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using
        plastics
        > > in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members
        here in
        > > New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy
        (a
        > > brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
        > > > "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1
        > > Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A
        couple
        > > weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre
        > > really mellows."
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Vino es Veritas,
        > > > Jim aka Waldo.
        > > >
        > >
        >
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