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Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners

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  • Andy
    Anyone have an easy whiskey and rum recipies that a beginner couldn t screw up? Any ideas what the hydrometer should read at the time to distill? How long to
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
      Anyone have an easy whiskey and rum recipies that a beginner couldn't screw up? Any ideas what the hydrometer should read at the time to distill? How long to ferment and etc.... BTW I wanted to ask if cement buckets(the kind that I would buy from homedepot)would be air-tight enough to ferment in.

      Thanks Andy
    • jamesonbeam1
      Andy, For corn whiskey (assuming thats what your after), read up on the Uncle Jesse s UJSSM at:
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 29, 2009

        Andy,

        For corn whiskey (assuming thats what your after), read up on the Uncle Jesse's UJSSM at:  http://wiki.homedistiller.org/index.php/Uncle_Jesse's_Simple_Sour_Mash_Method

        For rum recipes read up on making sugar washes and rum washes in Tony's site at: http://homedistiller.org/wash-sugar.htm#rum2

        Cement buckets are ok (long as they arnt used), but you dont want them to be air tight (the CO2 gases have to escape or else you'll get a big bang!!!).  Most just use food grade plastic containers (clean garbage containers work well too) with a trash bag cover and a few small holes in it as a primary fermenter.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <andrewfrench6@...> wrote:
        >
        > Anyone have an easy whiskey and rum recipies that a beginner couldn't screw up? Any ideas what the hydrometer should read at the time to distill? How long to ferment and etc.... BTW I wanted to ask if cement buckets(the kind that I would buy from homedepot)would be air-tight enough to ferment in.
        >
        > Thanks Andy
        >

      • Andy
        Thanks for all of the info. I did see thoes recipies and they did seem a little labor-intensive, but i guess thats the work that is necessary. And I did read
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 29, 2009
          Thanks for all of the info. I did see thoes recipies and they did seem a little labor-intensive, but i guess thats the work that is necessary. And I did read that an air lock is needed, but thanks for the heads up. Just wanted to know if the normal plastic from the buckets would react in some way or if the lids were tight enough.

          Thanks again,
          Andy
        • jamesonbeam1
          Actually Andy, a air lock for primary fermentation is NOT recommended. The amout of CO2 given off during the exponential growth phase during the first part of
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 29, 2009
            Actually Andy, a air lock for primary fermentation is NOT recommended.
            The amout of CO2 given off during the exponential growth phase during
            the first part of the fermentation gives off so much gas that air locks
            have been know to be blown off and hit the ceiling...

            Air locks are more used for what wine makers term a "secondary
            fermentation" which is long and slow, or if your going to let you wash
            set for a while.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <andrewfrench6@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for all of the info. I did see thoes recipies and they did seem
            a little labor-intensive, but i guess thats the work that is necessary.
            And I did read that an air lock is needed, but thanks for the heads up.
            Just wanted to know if the normal plastic from the buckets would react
            in some way or if the lids were tight enough.
            >
            > Thanks again,
            > Andy
            >
          • Andy
            I didn t read that anywhere so thank you a lot for that info. Cause I would have used an airlock and it could have blown like you said, with out me knowing.
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 30, 2009
              I didn't read that anywhere so thank you a lot for that info. Cause I would have used an airlock and it could have blown like you said, with out me knowing. What should i use instead then? Anything?
            • jamesonbeam1
              As I stated early Andy, a tight fitting garbage bag works fine. Just poke some small holes in to let the CO2 escape and to keep the fruit flies and critters
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 30, 2009
                As I stated early Andy, a tight fitting garbage bag works fine. Just
                poke some small holes in to let the CO2 escape and to keep the fruit
                flies and critters out.. You can use elastic or bungy cords to hold it
                tight.

                During the primary fermentation, there is enough pressure to keep a CO2
                blanket over the fermentation and not let any air in.

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim aka Waldo.


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <andrewfrench6@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I didn't read that anywhere so thank you a lot for that info. Cause I
                would have used an airlock and it could have blown like you said, with
                out me knowing. What should i use instead then? Anything?
                >
              • schnakeus
                Here s a rum recipe that is good. 8 lb sugar, 6 lb light brown sugar, 2 12oz bottles of molasses dissolved in two gallons of hot water. Save 8 oz or so of this
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 1, 2009
                  Here's a rum recipe that is good. 8 lb sugar, 6 lb light brown sugar, 2 12oz bottles of molasses dissolved in two gallons of hot water. Save 8 oz or so of this mixture for later flavoring. Fill to 25L in fermenter bucket. Temp should be 68 to 75 degrees F. Then add pkg of turbo pure 48 yeast in fermenting bucket w/ airlock (all available at Brewhaus or many wine supply stores, and they come with a perforated cap so the cyl doesn't blow to the ceiling). Ferment 48Hrs or until percolating stops, if you like, for a wash of 17 to 21%.SG should be 1.00 or lower. Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still)Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows. You will yield easily 4L 60ABV decent rum, and can make 3+ 1.75L bottles of 40 ABV rum with distilled water. Add 2OZ of saved(molasses /sugar) mixture per 1.75L. For a darker rum flavor add one cap full of Prestige rum essence per 1.75L(available at Brewhaus). Flavor rivals Bacardi gold, maybe a little stronger taste,especially with the Prestige.

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <andrewfrench6@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Anyone have an easy whiskey and rum recipies that a beginner couldn't screw up? Any ideas what the hydrometer should read at the time to distill? How long to ferment and etc.... BTW I wanted to ask if cement buckets(the kind that I would buy from homedepot)would be air-tight enough to ferment in.
                  >
                  > Thanks Andy
                  >
                • jamesonbeam1
                  Hi All, After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in New
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009

                    Hi All,

                    After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a brand new member and distiller) on this statement:

                    "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows."

                    Thanks,

                    Vino es Veritas,

                    Jim aka Waldo.

                     


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "schnakeus" <schnake1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Here's a rum recipe that is good. 8 lb sugar, 6 lb light brown sugar, 2 12oz bottles of molasses dissolved in two gallons of hot water. Save 8 oz or so of this mixture for later flavoring. Fill to 25L in fermenter bucket. Temp should be 68 to 75 degrees F. Then add pkg of turbo pure 48 yeast in fermenting bucket w/ airlock (all available at Brewhaus or many wine supply stores, and they come with a perforated cap so the cyl doesn't blow to the ceiling). Ferment 48Hrs or until percolating stops, if you like, for a wash of 17 to 21%.SG should be 1.00 or lower. Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still)Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows. You will yield easily 4L 60ABV decent rum, and can make 3+ 1.75L bottles of 40 ABV rum with distilled water. Add 2OZ of saved(molasses /sugar) mixture per 1.75L. For a darker rum flavor add one cap full of Prestige rum essence per 1.75L(available at Brewhaus). Flavor rivals Bacardi gold, maybe a little stronger taste,especially with the Prestige.
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" andrewfrench6@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Anyone have an easy whiskey and rum recipies that a beginner couldn't screw up? Any ideas what the hydrometer should read at the time to distill? How long to ferment and etc.... BTW I wanted to ask if cement buckets(the kind that I would buy from homedepot)would be air-tight enough to ferment in.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks Andy
                    > >
                    >

                  • macrobert@europe.com
                    I ve found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that it gets flavours from the plastic. YMMV Robbie Mac Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                      I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that it gets flavours from the plastic.
                      YMMV

                      Robbie Mac
                      Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners



                      Hi All,
                      After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
                      "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows."
                      Thanks,
                      Vino es Veritas,
                      Jim aka Waldo.
                       

                       
                    • Jan Ooms
                      Hi YMMV, I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn t want it on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking mates. Please
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                        Hi YMMV,
                        I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want it on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking mates.
                        Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons delight in future.
                        There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation to alcohol useage and storage.
                        Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
                        Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
                        Best Regards,
                        Jan.
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners

                         

                        I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that it gets flavours from the plastic.
                        YMMV

                        Robbie Mac
                        Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@ yahoo.com>
                        To: new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners



                        Hi All,
                        After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
                        "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows."
                        Thanks,
                        Vino es Veritas,
                        Jim aka Waldo.
                         

                         

                      • tgfoitwoods
                        Okay, I m open to the fact that many, perhaps even all, plastics leach toxins into high-ABV spirit, but can anyone tell me *which* toxins are leached out of
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                          Okay, I'm open to the fact that many, perhaps even all, plastics leach toxins into high-ABV spirit, but can anyone tell me *which* toxins are leached out of medium-density polyethylene, the plastic our milk jugs are made from?

                          Except for the number of carbons in the molecular chain, polyethylene is chemically identical to paraffin wax, generally considered to be chemically inert. Also, because of the physical properties of MDPE, I'd be surprised if plasticizers are included, and our jugs use no coloring agents.

                          So I want to get past yes or no, good or bad, and get to *what*. Does anyone here know?

                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (who doesn't store in *any* plastic)

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@...> wrote:
                          ----snip----
                          > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons delight in future.
                          > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation to alcohol useage and storage.
                          ----snip----
                        • jamesonbeam1
                          OK Guys, Didn t mean to start a flame war here. I was being a bit facetious and tounge in cheek when asking for comments on Schnakeus recommendation to
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009

                            OK Guys,

                            Didn't mean to start a flame war here.  I was being a bit facetious and "tounge in cheek" when asking for comments on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy about using plastic milk bottles to age 60% (120 proof) rum in.

                            To try and put this in perspective, plastics are fine for primary fermentations of up to 20% or so ABV.  This is what would be considered "pre-distilled" product.  For distilling and "post-distilled" products we are going to drink, there are only certain plastics that are ethanol tolerant, and even then, drinkable stuff over 100 proof should not be stored in them for any length of time.  Riku, a moderator and well known still designer here can tell you which plastics are ok for this (like the Amazing Still).  However, used plastic milk containers definitely DO NOT contain one of these.....

                            The only approved and recommended plastic containers for holding drinkable ethanol products for any prolonged period of time (again under 50% or 100 proof), are the specially coated PET liquor bottles they came out with about 10 years ago.  These have special coatings which form a barrier between the ethanol and the plastic.

                            Please do not store or try and age your "barrel strength" products in any type of plastic containers.  USE GLASS or oak barrels.  PLEASE.

                            Remember this Schnakeus for Gosh sake.  Below is a posting by Harry from Advanced Distillers on PET bottles and their coatings.

                            Vino es Veritas,

                            Jim aka Waldo.

                            repost of Distillers group msg# 39312 

                            Re: Angels share?

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Good information Harry,
                            >
                            > Now few more things. As an example polypropylene seems to be OK for
                            > medium term STORAGE of medium strength ethanol. That's not aging but
                            > storage. PET bottles I've had trouble with. I once stored some 30-40%
                            > low wines temporarily (for few hours) into a thin walled pet bottle
                            > and it deformed. What we need to remember here is that we are not
                            > dealing exclusively with ethanol, rather flavored drinks and
                            > especially low-wines have many other higher+lower boiling point
                            > alcohols + other chemicals. The combined effect of all these is quite
                            > impossible to determine without empirical testing.
                            >
                            > Cheers, Riku

                             

                            I'm in the middle of doing up a paper on plastic containers in distilling.  It'll take me a while to finish.  But as to your experiences with PET bottles...time & technology march on relentlessly.  The reason they've been able to use PET for beverages like Early Times & Ancient Age whiskey for the last 10 years  (and I believe Jim Beam is now using it), is because of the great advances in coating or barrier substances and processes. 

                            The pet bottles of today are a far cry from those of even 3 or 4 years ago.  There's also PET bottles tailor-made for specific fills, like carbonated drinks and hot-fill juices in PET bottles that don't distort and whose contents have a shelf life requirement of longer than 9 months.

                              The barrier coatings range from the organic coatings (epoxyamine aka Bairocade) developed in the mid 1990s to lengthen the shelf life of the smaller soft drink sizes in hotter climates,  then for beer, to the latest plasma-applied inorganic coatings, using carbon or silicon.

                            It's a brave new world, particularly for we adventurous distillers.


                            Slainte!
                            regards Harry


                             

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi YMMV,
                            > I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want it on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking mates.
                            > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons delight in future.
                            > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation to alcohol useage and storage.
                            > Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
                            > Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
                            > Best Regards,
                            > Jan.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: macrobert@...
                            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that it gets flavours from the plastic.
                            > YMMV
                            >
                            >
                            > Robbie Mac
                            > Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@...
                            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
                            > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi All,
                            > After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
                            > "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1 Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre really mellows."
                            > Thanks,
                            > Vino es Veritas,
                            > Jim aka Waldo.
                            >

                          • jamesonbeam1
                            Hi ZB, Not sure what they all are or do, but heres a few. Vino es Veritas, Jim aka Waldo. Toxins, Endocrine Disruptors And Carcinogens That Migrate From The
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009

                              Hi ZB,

                              Not sure what they all are or do, but heres a few.

                              Vino es Veritas,

                              Jim aka Waldo.

                              Toxins, Endocrine Disruptors And Carcinogens That Migrate From The Molecules Of Different Plastic Containers To Their Contents

                              Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
                              Moderately toxic, eye irritant and possible carcinogen. Many glycols produce severe acidosis, central nervous system damage and congestion. Can cause convulsions, mutations, and surface EEG changes. Found in cosmetics, body products, foods, lotions.

                              PET: Polyethylene Terephthalate

                              Used for: Soda Bottles, Water Bottles, Peanut Butter Jars, Cooking Oil Bottles

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Acetaldehyde

                              HDPE: High-Density Polyethylene

                              Used for: Milk Jugs, Detergent bottles, Plastic Bags, Yogurt Cups

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

                              PVC: Polyvinyl Chloride

                              Used for: Water Bottles, Salad Dressing Bottles, Detergent Bottles, Cooking Oil Bottles, Shampoo Bottles, Mouth Wash Bottles, Meat Wrap, Also: Babies' Teething Rings, Pacifiers, Nipples and Toys (Barbie for example).

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Plasticizers (Lead, Cadmium, Mercury, Phthalates and the carcinogen, Diethyl Hexyphosphate)

                              LDPE: Low-Density Polyethylene

                              Used for: Produce Bags, Food Storage Containers

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

                              PP: Polypropylene

                              Used for: Bottle Caps, Drinking Straws

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010

                              PS: Polystyrene

                              Used for: Meat Trays, Foam Take-Out Food Containers & Cups (not in Berkeley!), Foam Packing Materials

                              What migrates from plastic container to contents: Styrene (traces found in nearly everyone's body fat)

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Okay, I'm open to the fact that many, perhaps even all, plastics leach toxins into high-ABV spirit, but can anyone tell me *which* toxins are leached out of medium-density polyethylene, the plastic our milk jugs are made from?
                              >
                              > Except for the number of carbons in the molecular chain, polyethylene is chemically identical to paraffin wax, generally considered to be chemically inert. Also, because of the physical properties of MDPE, I'd be surprised if plasticizers are included, and our jugs use no coloring agents.
                              >
                              > So I want to get past yes or no, good or bad, and get to *what*. Does anyone here know?
                              >
                              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (who doesn't store in *any* plastic)
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" jkooms@ wrote:
                              > ----snip----
                              > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons delight in future.
                              > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation to alcohol useage and storage.
                              > ----snip----
                              >

                            • Paul Smith
                              You can add Bispheno-A (BPA) to that list, a suspected carcinogen and (I can t remember the word, but..) it also affects how sex of an animal is expressed
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                                You can add Bispheno-A (BPA) to that list, a suspected carcinogen and (I can't remember the word, but..) it also affects how sex of an animal is expressed (males less obviously so [smaller penis/testes, low sperm counts], females often sterile).
                                 
                                It's a plasticiser that is added to most food grade plastics, in high density PET is keeps it from forming razor sharp shards when it breaks, in the lower density types it just makes the flexible, and we're only taking PPT addition rates at most! Biological effects start at PPB rates....
                                 
                                OH yeah the multi-nationals recon it's totally safe, but until I see evidence that the findings made to date are WRONG I won't use plastics unless it's unavoidable.
                                 
                                P.

                                --- On Mon, 2/11/09, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

                                From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
                                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for beginners
                                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Monday, 2 November, 2009, 11:34 PM

                                 
                                Hi ZB,
                                Not sure what they all are or do, but heres a few.
                                Vino es Veritas,
                                Jim aka Waldo.

                                Toxins, Endocrine Disruptors And Carcinogens That Migrate From The Molecules Of Different Plastic Containers To Their Contents

                                Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
                                Moderately toxic, eye irritant and possible carcinogen. Many glycols produce severe acidosis, central nervous system damage and congestion. Can cause convulsions, mutations, and surface EEG changes. Found in cosmetics, body products, foods, lotions.
                                PET: Polyethylene Terephthalate
                                Used for: Soda Bottles, Water Bottles, Peanut Butter Jars, Cooking Oil Bottles
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Acetaldehyde
                                HDPE: High-Density Polyethylene
                                Used for: Milk Jugs, Detergent bottles, Plastic Bags, Yogurt Cups
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                                PVC: Polyvinyl Chloride
                                Used for: Water Bottles, Salad Dressing Bottles, Detergent Bottles, Cooking Oil Bottles, Shampoo Bottles, Mouth Wash Bottles, Meat Wrap, Also: Babies' Teething Rings, Pacifiers, Nipples and Toys (Barbie for example).
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Plasticizers (Lead, Cadmium, Mercury, Phthalates and the carcinogen, Diethyl Hexyphosphate)
                                LDPE: Low-Density Polyethylene
                                Used for: Produce Bags, Food Storage Containers
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                                PP: Polypropylene
                                Used for: Bottle Caps, Drinking Straws
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010
                                PS: Polystyrene
                                Used for: Meat Trays, Foam Take-Out Food Containers & Cups (not in Berkeley!), Foam Packing Materials
                                What migrates from plastic container to contents: Styrene (traces found in nearly everyone's body fat)
                                --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@. ..> wrote:
                                >
                                > Okay, I'm open to the fact that many, perhaps even all, plastics leach toxins into high-ABV spirit, but can anyone tell me *which* toxins are leached out of medium-density polyethylene, the plastic our milk jugs are made from?
                                >
                                > Except for the number of carbons in the molecular chain, polyethylene is chemically identical to paraffin wax, generally considered to be chemically inert. Also, because of the physical properties of MDPE, I'd be surprised if plasticizers are included, and our jugs use no coloring agents.
                                >
                                > So I want to get past yes or no, good or bad, and get to *what*. Does anyone here know?
                                >
                                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller (who doesn't store in *any* plastic)
                                >
                                > --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "Jan Ooms" jkooms@ wrote:
                                > ----snip----
                                > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons delight in future.
                                > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation to alcohol useage and storage.
                                > ----snip----
                                >


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                              • tgfoitwoods
                                Thanks a bunch Waldo and Paul. I m saving this info. I like hard facts *way* better than just handwaving, and I m *still* collecting and storing in glass.
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                                  Thanks a bunch Waldo and Paul.

                                  I'm saving this info. I like hard facts *way* better than just handwaving, and I'm *still* collecting and storing in glass.

                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <praxis178@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > You can add Bispheno-A (BPA) to that list, a suspected carcinogen and (I can't remember the word, but..) it also affects how sex of an animal is expressed (males less obviously so [smaller penis/testes, low sperm counts], females often sterile).
                                  >  
                                  >----snip----
                                • jamesonbeam1
                                  Your More then Welcome ZB, But again, remember this everyone, what we are doing here, is making drinkable poison in the first place. All these discussions
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009

                                    Your More then Welcome ZB,

                                    But again, remember this everyone, what we are doing here, is making drinkable "poison" in the first place.  All these discussions on plastics, foreshots, and correct cuts contribute just a fraction of 1 percent to the real "poisons" we are making.  Downing a quart of the best 12 year old whiskey you can get in less then 1 hour will prove this to ya' all.

                                    So the best adviceto all is: Drink Sensible, Be Safe and dont sell your hootch.  Remember, this is a hobby and an aged,  good and honorable one!!!

                                    Vino es Veritas,

                                    Jim aka Waldo.

                                    PS> No I haven't yet joined MADD (mothers against drunk drivers), Im still a member of DAMM (drinkers against mad mothers);).....

                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks a bunch Waldo and Paul.
                                    >
                                    > I'm saving this info. I like hard facts *way* better than just handwaving, and I'm *still* collecting and storing in glass.
                                    >
                                    > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                    >
                                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith praxis178@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > You can add Bispheno-A (BPA) to that list, a suspected carcinogen and (I can't remember the word, but..) it also affects how sex of an animal is expressed (males less obviously so [smaller penis/testes, low sperm counts], females often sterile).
                                    > >  
                                    > >----snip----
                                    >

                                  • schnakeus
                                    Jim and all, Sorry Andy, I shouldn t have recommended plastic, although I was talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor and
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                                      Jim and all,
                                      Sorry Andy, I shouldn't have recommended plastic, although I was talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor and bottle). I also use glass. I don't want to mislead anyone. Jan, are you sure it is absolutely that dangerous? I'm no chemistry major. Anyway it's a decent rum recipe. And glass is best. Shame on me!

                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > OK Guys,
                                      >
                                      > Didn't mean to start a flame war here. I was being a bit facetious and
                                      > "tounge in cheek" when asking for comments on Schnakeus' recommendation
                                      > to Andy about using plastic milk bottles to age 60% (120 proof) rum in.
                                      >
                                      > To try and put this in perspective, plastics are fine for primary
                                      > fermentations of up to 20% or so ABV. This is what would be considered
                                      > "pre-distilled" product. For distilling and "post-distilled" products
                                      > we are going to drink, there are only certain plastics that are ethanol
                                      > tolerant, and even then, drinkable stuff over 100 proof should not be
                                      > stored in them for any length of time. Riku, a moderator and well known
                                      > still designer here can tell you which plastics are ok for this (like
                                      > the Amazing Still). However, used plastic milk containers definitely DO
                                      > NOT contain one of these.....
                                      >
                                      > The only approved and recommended plastic containers for holding
                                      > drinkable ethanol products for any prolonged period of time (again under
                                      > 50% or 100 proof), are the specially coated PET liquor bottles they came
                                      > out with about 10 years ago. These have special coatings which form a
                                      > barrier between the ethanol and the plastic.
                                      >
                                      > Please do not store or try and age your "barrel strength" products in
                                      > any type of plastic containers. USE GLASS or oak barrels. PLEASE.
                                      >
                                      > Remember this Schnakeus for Gosh sake. Below is a posting by Harry from
                                      > Advanced Distillers on PET bottles and their coatings.
                                      >
                                      > Vino es Veritas,
                                      >
                                      > Jim aka Waldo.
                                      >
                                      > repost of Distillers group msg# 39312
                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39312>
                                      > Re: Angels share?
                                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Good information Harry,
                                      > >
                                      > > Now few more things. As an example polypropylene seems to be OK for
                                      > > medium term STORAGE of medium strength ethanol. That's not aging but
                                      > > storage. PET bottles I've had trouble with. I once stored some 30-40%
                                      > > low wines temporarily (for few hours) into a thin walled pet bottle
                                      > > and it deformed. What we need to remember here is that we are not
                                      > > dealing exclusively with ethanol, rather flavored drinks and
                                      > > especially low-wines have many other higher+lower boiling point
                                      > > alcohols + other chemicals. The combined effect of all these is quite
                                      > > impossible to determine without empirical testing.
                                      > >
                                      > > Cheers, Riku
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I'm in the middle of doing up a paper on plastic containers in
                                      > distilling. It'll take me a while to finish. But as to your
                                      > experiences with PET bottles...time & technology march on relentlessly.
                                      > The reason they've been able to use PET for beverages like Early Times &
                                      > Ancient Age whiskey for the last 10 years (and I believe Jim Beam is
                                      > now using it), is because of the great advances in coating or barrier
                                      > substances and processes.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The pet bottles of today are a far cry from those of even 3 or 4 years
                                      > ago. There's also PET bottles tailor-made for specific fills, like
                                      > carbonated drinks and hot-fill juices in PET bottles that don't distort
                                      > and whose contents have a shelf life requirement of longer than 9
                                      > months.
                                      >
                                      > The barrier coatings range from the organic coatings (epoxyamine aka
                                      > Bairocade) developed in the mid 1990s to lengthen the shelf life of the
                                      > smaller soft drink sizes in hotter climates, then for beer, to the
                                      > latest plasma-applied inorganic coatings, using carbon or silicon.
                                      >
                                      > It's a brave new world, particularly for we adventurous distillers.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Slainte!
                                      > regards Harry
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi YMMV,
                                      > > I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want it
                                      > on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking mates.
                                      > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a surgeons
                                      > delight in future.
                                      > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in relation
                                      > to alcohol useage and storage.
                                      > > Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in
                                      > regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
                                      > > Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
                                      > > Best Regards,
                                      > > Jan.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: macrobert@
                                      > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
                                      > beginners
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above that
                                      > it gets flavours from the plastic.
                                      > > YMMV
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Robbie Mac
                                      > > Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@
                                      > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
                                      > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
                                      > beginners
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi All,
                                      > > After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using plastics
                                      > in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members here in
                                      > New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy (a
                                      > brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
                                      > > "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1
                                      > Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A couple
                                      > weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre
                                      > really mellows."
                                      > > Thanks,
                                      > > Vino es Veritas,
                                      > > Jim aka Waldo.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • jamesonbeam1
                                      Hi Schnakeus, No big deal at all. This hobby is constant learning curve and im glad this was brough out in the open. Just hope people now relize when and
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 3, 2009
                                        Hi Schnakeus,

                                        No big deal at all. This hobby is constant learning curve and im glad
                                        this was brough out in the open. Just hope people now relize when and
                                        where to use plastics. My views are simply that its better safe then
                                        sorry, so I stay away from plastics in any post-distilled product.

                                        And yes, your recipe is a good one, and especially interesting adding
                                        the essences as well. The only constructive criticism would be taking
                                        it all the way up to 21% ABV. This is the very upper limit of the turbo
                                        yeast's tolerance and may cause some unwanted flavors and stess them
                                        out. Not to mention the heat being generated.

                                        I use about the same ratios of sugars to molasses, but usually go no
                                        more then 14% ABV for rums, while the commercial rum makers usually
                                        shoot for around 10% ABV. Lower ABVs in your fermentation will allow
                                        more flavors to come through.

                                        Vino es Veritas,

                                        Jim aka Waldo.


                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "schnakeus" <schnake1@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Jim and all,
                                        > Sorry Andy, I shouldn't have recommended plastic, although I was
                                        talking short term (7 to 10 days to mellow and color. Then dilute,flavor
                                        and bottle). I also use glass. I don't want to mislead anyone. Jan, are
                                        you sure it is absolutely that dangerous? I'm no chemistry major. Anyway
                                        it's a decent rum recipe. And glass is best. Shame on me!
                                        >
                                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
                                        wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > OK Guys,
                                        > >
                                        > > Didn't mean to start a flame war here. I was being a bit facetious
                                        and
                                        > > "tounge in cheek" when asking for comments on Schnakeus'
                                        recommendation
                                        > > to Andy about using plastic milk bottles to age 60% (120 proof) rum
                                        in.
                                        > >
                                        > > To try and put this in perspective, plastics are fine for primary
                                        > > fermentations of up to 20% or so ABV. This is what would be
                                        considered
                                        > > "pre-distilled" product. For distilling and "post-distilled"
                                        products
                                        > > we are going to drink, there are only certain plastics that are
                                        ethanol
                                        > > tolerant, and even then, drinkable stuff over 100 proof should not
                                        be
                                        > > stored in them for any length of time. Riku, a moderator and well
                                        known
                                        > > still designer here can tell you which plastics are ok for this
                                        (like
                                        > > the Amazing Still). However, used plastic milk containers definitely
                                        DO
                                        > > NOT contain one of these.....
                                        > >
                                        > > The only approved and recommended plastic containers for holding
                                        > > drinkable ethanol products for any prolonged period of time (again
                                        under
                                        > > 50% or 100 proof), are the specially coated PET liquor bottles they
                                        came
                                        > > out with about 10 years ago. These have special coatings which form
                                        a
                                        > > barrier between the ethanol and the plastic.
                                        > >
                                        > > Please do not store or try and age your "barrel strength" products
                                        in
                                        > > any type of plastic containers. USE GLASS or oak barrels. PLEASE.
                                        > >
                                        > > Remember this Schnakeus for Gosh sake. Below is a posting by Harry
                                        from
                                        > > Advanced Distillers on PET bottles and their coatings.
                                        > >
                                        > > Vino es Veritas,
                                        > >
                                        > > Jim aka Waldo.
                                        > >
                                        > > repost of Distillers group msg# 39312
                                        > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39312>
                                        > > Re: Angels share?
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Good information Harry,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Now few more things. As an example polypropylene seems to be OK
                                        for
                                        > > > medium term STORAGE of medium strength ethanol. That's not aging
                                        but
                                        > > > storage. PET bottles I've had trouble with. I once stored some
                                        30-40%
                                        > > > low wines temporarily (for few hours) into a thin walled pet
                                        bottle
                                        > > > and it deformed. What we need to remember here is that we are not
                                        > > > dealing exclusively with ethanol, rather flavored drinks and
                                        > > > especially low-wines have many other higher+lower boiling point
                                        > > > alcohols + other chemicals. The combined effect of all these is
                                        quite
                                        > > > impossible to determine without empirical testing.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Cheers, Riku
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm in the middle of doing up a paper on plastic containers in
                                        > > distilling. It'll take me a while to finish. But as to your
                                        > > experiences with PET bottles...time & technology march on
                                        relentlessly.
                                        > > The reason they've been able to use PET for beverages like Early
                                        Times &
                                        > > Ancient Age whiskey for the last 10 years (and I believe Jim Beam is
                                        > > now using it), is because of the great advances in coating or
                                        barrier
                                        > > substances and processes.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > The pet bottles of today are a far cry from those of even 3 or 4
                                        years
                                        > > ago. There's also PET bottles tailor-made for specific fills, like
                                        > > carbonated drinks and hot-fill juices in PET bottles that don't
                                        distort
                                        > > and whose contents have a shelf life requirement of longer than 9
                                        > > months.
                                        > >
                                        > > The barrier coatings range from the organic coatings (epoxyamine aka
                                        > > Bairocade) developed in the mid 1990s to lengthen the shelf life of
                                        the
                                        > > smaller soft drink sizes in hotter climates, then for beer, to the
                                        > > latest plasma-applied inorganic coatings, using carbon or silicon.
                                        > >
                                        > > It's a brave new world, particularly for we adventurous distillers.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Slainte!
                                        > > regards Harry
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Ooms" <jkooms@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi YMMV,
                                        > > > I hope that you drink all that gutrot yourself. You wouldn't want
                                        it
                                        > > on your concience that you are slowly poisoning all your drinking
                                        mates.
                                        > > > Please stay away from plastic, if you don't, you will be a
                                        surgeons
                                        > > delight in future.
                                        > > > There is enough information in the archives about plastic in
                                        relation
                                        > > to alcohol useage and storage.
                                        > > > Do not take any notice of Multi Nationals and their statements in
                                        > > regard to plastic, pvc etc etc.
                                        > > > Their bottomline dictates what is healthy for you and us.
                                        > > > Best Regards,
                                        > > > Jan.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: macrobert@
                                        > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:29 PM
                                        > > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies
                                        for
                                        > > beginners
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I've found that at ~35% or lower it seems to be okay, but above
                                        that
                                        > > it gets flavours from the plastic.
                                        > > > YMMV
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Robbie Mac
                                        > > > Sometime tinkerer and sometimes it even works....
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > From: jamesonbeam1 jamesonbeam1@
                                        > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 8:21 am
                                        > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Easy whiskey and rum recipies for
                                        > > beginners
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi All,
                                        > > > After being critiqued too many times on my beliefs in using
                                        plastics
                                        > > in the hobby of distilling, would any of you other 3,648 members
                                        here in
                                        > > New Distillers care to comment on Schnakeus' recommendation to Andy
                                        (a
                                        > > brand new member and distiller) on this statement:
                                        > > > "Distill 4L, removing first 2Tsp of fusels, down to approx 1.1
                                        > > Litre(using a 4L pot still) Don't collect tails, throw em away. A
                                        couple
                                        > > weeks in a plastic milk jug with a tsp med toast oak chips per litre
                                        > > really mellows."
                                        > > > Thanks,
                                        > > > Vino es Veritas,
                                        > > > Jim aka Waldo.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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