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aging

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  • williambloat
    I finally finished my first spirit run. I have diluted it down to 50% and would like to age half as clear shine and the other half as bourbon. I know this has
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 5 12:52 PM
      I finally finished my first spirit run. I have diluted it down to 50% and would like to age half as clear shine and the other half as bourbon. I know this has been discussed on the various news groups in the past, but I can't find any quantities or proportions in the archives. I have white oak charcoal chips, glycerin, dried apricots, peppercorns, vanilla beans, raisins, cream sherry...you name it. Can someone give me an idea what works good for you and in what proportions. I do realize that everyones taste are different and this is not an exact science. Thanks, I appreciate everyones help.
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hello William, Congradulations on your first run, your finally a full fledged distiller.... Hope it was made from corn if your going to age it as Bourbon.
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 5 1:29 PM

        Hello William,

        Congradulations on your first run,   your finally a full fledged distiller....  Hope it was made from corn if your going to age it as Bourbon.  First off, aging for Bourbon is done in heavily charred (alligator char) American Oak barrels at anywheres from 125 up to 159 proof (since it cant be distilled over 160 proof) for a minimum of 2 years.

        For aging, you should have probably kept yours at 120 to 140 proof, but you can still do it at 100 proof on your charred oak chips (about 1/2 a cup per quart works fine for me), but everyone has their own formulas.  As far as the other stuff you have, glycerine will smooth it down a bit (about a teasoon per quart), and the other things could work well in rums, but not in corn likkers ;) lol.

        As far as aging the other 1/2 as a "clear shine", Im a bit confused about this.  To me "clear shine" is called "white dawg" in there here parts and is ment to be drunk un-aged.  Even if you use oak chips that haven't been charred or toasted, it will still turn a yellowish color.

        Please explain better what your trying say.  It is a good idea to let new distillate sit for a while - even in a bottle to mellow out a bit.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.


        > I finally finished my first spirit run. I have diluted it down to 50% and would like to age half as clear shine and the other half as bourbon. I know this has been discussed on the various news groups in the past, but I can't find any quantities or proportions in the archives. I have white oak charcoal chips, glycerin, dried apricots, peppercorns, vanilla beans, raisins, cream sherry...you name it. Can someone give me an idea what works good for you and in what proportions. I do realize that everyones taste are different and this is not an exact science. Thanks, I appreciate everyones help.
        >

      • tgfoitwoods
        William, Normally, I just age bourbon with alligator-charred oak sticks, sticks that have been charred to the extent that their surface looks like alligator
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 5 1:47 PM
          William,

          Normally, I just age bourbon with alligator-charred oak sticks, sticks that have been charred to the extent that their surface looks like alligator skin. With sticks that are approximately 1/2" x 1/2" by 4", the wood at the surface is highly charred and the wood in the middle of the stick is lightly charred, and every degree in between can be found in each stick, each with its associated flavoring compounds.

          I'm not sure you can duplicate all these degrees of charring with oak chips, as the charred ones may just burn up, but if you buy a half whiskey barrel for a planter from a garden supply and cut it into sticks, you can have all the aging oak you want.

          4 or 5 stick like this in a gallon jug of your white dog is a good place to start, and you can add or remove sticks as time progresses, and your palette tells you.

          Actually, you can just age it with your oak chips. It'll be great; it just won't be bourbon.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "williambloat" <blkpowdr@...> wrote:
          >
          > I finally finished my first spirit run. I have diluted it down to 50% and would like to age half as clear shine and the other half as bourbon. I know this has been discussed on the various news groups in the past, but I can't find any quantities or proportions in the archives. I have white oak charcoal chips, glycerin, dried apricots, peppercorns, vanilla beans, raisins, cream sherry...you name it. Can someone give me an idea what works good for you and in what proportions. I do realize that everyones taste are different and this is not an exact science. Thanks, I appreciate everyones help.
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          Sorry William, Ment to say it cant be aged at any higher than 125 proof, but can be distilled up to 160 proof. JB.
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 5 1:58 PM
            Sorry William,

            Ment to say it cant be aged at any higher than 125 proof, but can be
            distilled up to 160 proof.

            JB.


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello William,
            >
            > Congradulations on your first run, your finally a full fledged
            > distiller.... Hope it was made from corn if your going to age it as
            > Bourbon. First off, aging for Bourbon is done in heavily charred
            > (alligator char) American Oak barrels at anywheres from 125 up to 159
            > proof (since it cant be distilled over 160 proof) for a minimum of 2
            > years.
          • williambloat
            Thanks Waldo, I ended up with a couple of gallons. A bit harsh right now but has a nice after flavor. I used the traditional non-cooked sour mash recipe for
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 5 2:30 PM
              Thanks Waldo,
              I ended up with a couple of gallons. A bit harsh right now but has a nice after flavor. I used the traditional non-cooked sour mash recipe for my first time with 5 parts corn and 3 parts rye. I plan to leave one gallon as plain moonshine and age the other as a bourbon style. A while back, I believe it was Harry, but several others also talked about throwing in a dried apricot and some peppercorns with the charred white oak. Can't remember which newsgroup it was on. I was just trying to get an idea how you more experienced guys do it.

              -
              > Hello William,
              >
              > Congradulations on your first run, your finally a full fledged
              > distiller.... Hope it was made from corn if your going to age it as
              > Bourbon. First off, aging for Bourbon is done in heavily charred
              > (alligator char) American Oak barrels at anywheres from 125 up to 159
              > proof (since it cant be distilled over 160 proof) for a minimum of 2
              > years.
              >
              > For aging, you should have probably kept yours at 120 to 140 proof, but
              > you can still do it at 100 proof on your charred oak chips (about 1/2 a
              > cup per quart works fine for me), but everyone has their own formulas.
              > As far as the other stuff you have, glycerine will smooth it down a bit
              > (about a teasoon per quart), and the other things could work well in
              > rums, but not in corn likkers [;)] lol.
              >
              > As far as aging the other 1/2 as a "clear shine", Im a bit confused
              > about this. To me "clear shine" is called "white dawg" in there here
              > parts and is ment to be drunk un-aged. Even if you use oak chips that
              > haven't been charred or toasted, it will still turn a yellowish color.
              >
              > Please explain better what your trying say. It is a good idea to let
              > new distillate sit for a while - even in a bottle to mellow out a bit.
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo.
              >
            • tgfoitwoods
              William, Thanks for reminding me. Some of the aging things you need to do to combat harshness are aeration and oxygenation, which can sometimes be the same
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 5 3:31 PM
                William,

                Thanks for reminding me. Some of the aging things you need to do to combat harshness are aeration and oxygenation, which can sometimes be the same thing. Aeration cause the preferential evaporation of the harsh lighter fractions, and oxygenation oxidizes the harsher recently-dissolved wood chemicals to vanillins, which are much smoother and tastier.

                I aerate with an airbed pump, kinda like a small leaf-blower, to bubble air violently through the booze, I oxygenate with an airstone attached to an oxyacetylene torch.

                I've never resorted to adding a bunch of alien materials to my whisk(e)y.

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "williambloat" <blkpowdr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Waldo,
                > I ended up with a couple of gallons. A bit harsh right now but has a nice after flavor. I used the traditional non-cooked sour mash recipe for my first time with 5 parts corn and 3 parts rye. I plan to leave one gallon as plain moonshine and age the other as a bourbon style. A while back, I believe it was Harry, but several others also talked about throwing in a dried apricot and some peppercorns with the charred white oak. Can't remember which newsgroup it was on. I was just trying to get an idea how you more experienced guys do it.
                >
                > -
                ----snip----(sorry, Waldo)
              • jamesonbeam1
                Yes ZB, This is also true, but tell Will that he will also lose some of the ABV to that pretty angel on our home page [:D] . Vino es Veritas, Jim aka Waldo,
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 5 3:56 PM

                  Yes ZB,

                  This is also true, but tell Will that he will also lose some of the ABV to that pretty angel on our home page :D.

                  Vino es Veritas,

                  Jim aka Waldo,

                  Sorry ZB....


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > William,
                  >
                  > Thanks for reminding me. Some of the aging things you need to do to combat harshness are aeration and oxygenation, which can sometimes be the same thing. Aeration cause the preferential evaporation of the harsh lighter fractions, and oxygenation oxidizes the harsher recently-dissolved wood chemicals to vanillins, which are much smoother and tastier.
                  >
                  > I aerate with an airbed pump, kinda like a small leaf-blower, to bubble air violently through the booze, I oxygenate with an airstone attached to an oxyacetylene torch.
                  >
                  > I've never resorted to adding a bunch of alien materials to my whisk(e)y.
                  >
                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                  >
                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "williambloat" blkpowdr@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Waldo,
                  > > I ended up with a couple of gallons. A bit harsh right now but has a nice after flavor. I used the traditional non-cooked sour mash recipe for my first time with 5 parts corn and 3 parts rye. I plan to leave one gallon as plain moonshine and age the other as a bourbon style. A while back, I believe it was Harry, but several others also talked about throwing in a dried apricot and some peppercorns with the charred white oak. Can't remember which newsgroup it was on. I was just trying to get an idea how you more experienced guys do it.
                  > >
                  > > -
                  > ----snip----(sorry, Waldo)
                  >

                • tgfoitwoods
                  Well, ok Jim,if I must. William, Aggressive aeration will cost you as much as 2 to 4% ABV when practiced. It s a fair trade, because our angel is getting the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 5 6:45 PM
                    Well, ok Jim,if I must.

                    William,

                    Aggressive aeration will cost you as much as 2 to 4% ABV when practiced. It's a fair trade, because our "angel" is getting the cheap stuff, which seems appropriate, considering

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller.

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Yes ZB,
                    >
                    > This is also true, but tell Will that he will also lose some of the ABV
                    > to that pretty angel on our home page [:D] .
                    >
                    > Vino es Veritas,
                    >
                    > Jim aka Waldo,
                    >
                    > Sorry ZB....
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > William,
                    > >
                    ----snip----
                  • williambloat
                    OK, It is easy enough to hook up an airstone to my small oxy tank. How often or how long do you use it. Wouldn t oxygenating it also take care of the aeration?
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 5 8:04 PM
                      OK, It is easy enough to hook up an airstone to my small oxy tank. How often or how long do you use it. Wouldn't oxygenating it also take care of the aeration? ( & I don't mind giving a share to that angel)...WB

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > William,
                      >
                      > Thanks for reminding me. Some of the aging things you need to do to combat harshness are aeration and oxygenation, which can sometimes be the same thing. Aeration cause the preferential evaporation of the harsh lighter fractions, and oxygenation oxidizes the harsher recently-dissolved wood chemicals to vanillins, which are much smoother and tastier.
                      >
                      > I aerate with an airbed pump, kinda like a small leaf-blower, to bubble air violently through the booze, I oxygenate with an airstone attached to an oxyacetylene torch.
                      >
                      > I've never resorted to adding a bunch of alien materials to my whisk(e)y.
                      >
                      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                      >
                      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "williambloat" <blkpowdr@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Waldo,
                      > > I ended up with a couple of gallons. A bit harsh right now but has a nice after flavor. I used the traditional non-cooked sour mash recipe for my first time with 5 parts corn and 3 parts rye. I plan to leave one gallon as plain moonshine and age the other as a bourbon style. A while back, I believe it was Harry, but several others also talked about throwing in a dried apricot and some peppercorns with the charred white oak. Can't remember which newsgroup it was on. I was just trying to get an idea how you more experienced guys do it.
                      > >
                      > > -
                      > ----snip----(sorry, Waldo)
                      >
                    • tgfoitwoods
                      William, As similar as the 2 processes seem, they differ significantly as far as when and how, and to what end. Oxygenation only has a purpose *after* oak
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 5 9:47 PM
                        William,

                        As similar as the 2 processes seem, they differ significantly as far as when and how, and to what end. Oxygenation only has a purpose *after* oak aging, when the wood compounds have been extracted into the spirit, as its main purpose is to oxidize those wood compounds to vanillins.

                        Aeration's purpose is to force major evaporation of the lighter fractions, and can be done pretty much at any time to remove harshness. Aeration involves perhaps 1000 times as much air as the thin stream of oxygen bubbles from the airstone in oxygenation, and the spirit boils violently, but at room temperature.

                        So: oxygen in tiny amounts after oaking for flavor with no change in ABV , or air in huge amounts anytime for harshness with some ABV loss. Does that make sense?

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "williambloat" <blkpowdr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > OK, It is easy enough to hook up an airstone to my small oxy tank. How often or how long do you use it. Wouldn't oxygenating it also take care of the aeration? ( & I don't mind giving a share to that angel)...WB
                        >
                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > William,
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for reminding me. Some of the aging things you need to do to combat harshness are aeration and oxygenation, which can sometimes be the same thing. Aeration cause the preferential evaporation of the harsh lighter fractions, and oxygenation oxidizes the harsher recently-dissolved wood chemicals to vanillins, which are much smoother and tastier.
                        > >
                        > > I aerate with an airbed pump, kinda like a small leaf-blower, to bubble air violently through the booze, I oxygenate with an airstone attached to an oxyacetylene torch.
                        > >
                        > > I've never resorted to adding a bunch of alien materials to my whisk(e)y.
                        > >
                        > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                        > >
                        ----snip----
                      • williambloat
                        Z Bob, Yes, Thanks. It does make sense. And gives me a lot more to think about and play with.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 6 8:45 AM
                          Z Bob,
                          Yes, Thanks. It does make sense. And gives me a lot more to think about and play with.

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > William,
                          >
                          > As similar as the 2 processes seem, they differ significantly as far as when and how, and to what end. Oxygenation only has a purpose *after* oak aging, when the wood compounds have been extracted into the spirit, as its main purpose is to oxidize those wood compounds to vanillins.
                          >
                          > Aeration's purpose is to force major evaporation of the lighter fractions, and can be done pretty much at any time to remove harshness. Aeration involves perhaps 1000 times as much air as the thin stream of oxygen bubbles from the airstone in oxygenation, and the spirit boils violently, but at room temperature.
                          >
                          > So: oxygen in tiny amounts after oaking for flavor with no change in ABV , or air in huge amounts anytime for harshness with some ABV loss. Does that make sense?
                          >
                          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                          >
                          > .......snip
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