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Re: Failing fermentation

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hi Luc, Just a quick question, if I may add my 2 cent worth.. you say you doing a 170 liter wash. What type / make of Turbo yeast are you using and how many
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009
      Hi Luc,

      Just a quick question, if I may add my 2 cent worth.. you say you doing
      a 170 liter wash. What type / make of Turbo yeast are you using and how
      many packets did you use>?? Most packets are only good for a 25 to 30
      liter wash.

      Also as Harry stated, check out the expiration date on your packs. The
      idea of wrapping your fermenter in wet cloths is also a good idea.


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lucvanheel" <ethyl@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All
      >
      > First I tried my cane juice to ferment, with Turbo yeast,nothing
      happened! then I went reading again, addedd bakers yeast with extra
      nuitrients it bubled for 12 hrs and than died, it all got to warm.
      > I did distill the lot, the 803 performed wonderfull, out of the
      botched wash 170L cane juice I got 2 L 180% It just proved that he
      column worked, but not much more.
      >
      > Night teperatures here 24C day time 34C. April May it goes up to 45C
      in the shade.
      > I now made 2 cooling coils for my 2 fermantation tubs (112L each) with
      a submergable 12V pump in a 100 liter coolerbox where I keep on adding
      Ice, you can by big blocks here for about 50Cent a block.
      > Now for 1 $ a day the temp in the tanks stays between 20 to 26C wich
      is witin the limits printed on the Turbo.
      > Yesterday I made a pure sugar wash as instructed on the Turbo packet,
      and kept it all cool, 24 Hrs later I still have a Oe reading of a 100,
      > +/- 15% alcohol, but no sign of fermentation, not 1 bubble. 15% is wat
      I started of with!
      > Did something happend like this to someone else before? Any advice to
      get this restarted? Having to trow away 140 liters sugar wash would
      hurt.
      > Regards
      > Luc.
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Sidenote Luc, Also sounds like you live in a tropical area - especially getting hold of all that sugar cane juice (im jealous [;)] ). Tis a good idea to
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009


        Sidenote Luc,

        Also sounds like you live in a tropical area - especially getting hold of all that sugar cane juice (im jealous ;)).  Tis a good idea to always keep your yeasts in the refridge to extend usable life.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.

      • waljaco
        Last year we began a 300 litre wine fermentation in 40C heat - a temperature that killed the wine yeast. Ended with an unwanted sweet red! wal
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009
          Last year we began a 300 litre wine fermentation in 40C heat - a temperature that killed the wine yeast. Ended with an unwanted sweet red!
          wal
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "lucvanheel" <ethyl@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All
          >
          > First I tried my cane juice to ferment, with Turbo yeast,nothing happened! then I went reading again, addedd bakers yeast with extra nuitrients it bubled for 12 hrs and than died, it all got to warm.
          > I did distill the lot, the 803 performed wonderfull, out of the botched wash 170L cane juice I got 2 L 180% It just proved that he column worked, but not much more.
          >
          > Night teperatures here 24C day time 34C. April May it goes up to 45C in the shade.
          > I now made 2 cooling coils for my 2 fermantation tubs (112L each) with a submergable 12V pump in a 100 liter coolerbox where I keep on adding Ice, you can by big blocks here for about 50Cent a block.
          > Now for 1 $ a day the temp in the tanks stays between 20 to 26C wich is witin the limits printed on the Turbo.
          > Yesterday I made a pure sugar wash as instructed on the Turbo packet, and kept it all cool, 24 Hrs later I still have a Oe reading of a 100,
          > +/- 15% alcohol, but no sign of fermentation, not 1 bubble. 15% is wat I started of with!
          > Did something happend like this to someone else before? Any advice to get this restarted? Having to trow away 140 liters sugar wash would hurt.
          > Regards
          > Luc.
          >
        • KM Services
          Gidday Luc, Can I just add to Jim s comments and say that turbo s are intended for the Hobby distiller and geared to the 20 to 25 litre wash with a quick turn
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009

            Gidday Luc,

            Can I just add to Jim’s comments and say that turbo’s are intended for the Hobby distiller and geared to the 20 to 25 litre wash with a quick turn around time with highish ABV and most are not generally “stackable”. Some like Code 6 ( lower ABV and slower fermenting)  can be stacked to make a 50 litre maybe 75 litre wash size, but, not much further. I am sure if you are doing washes as high as X7 over the 25 litre size you would need to get commercial yeast that can cope with stacking to that size.

            Ken Mc (This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure)

            Hi Luc,

            Just a quick question, if I may add my 2 cent worth.. you say you doing
            a 170 liter wash. What type / make of Turbo yeast are you using and how
            many packets did you use>?? Most packets are only good for a 25 to 30
            liter wash.

            Also as Harry stated, check out the expiration date on your packs. The
            idea of wrapping your fermenter in wet cloths is also a good idea.

            --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "lucvanheel" <ethyl@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hello All
            >
            > First I tried my cane juice to ferment, with Turbo yeast,nothing
            happened! then I went reading again, addedd bakers yeast with extra
            nuitrients it bubled for 12 hrs and than died, it all got to warm.
            > I did distill the lot, the 803 performed wonderfull, out of the
            botched wash 170L cane juice I got 2 L 180% It just proved that he
            column worked, but not much more.
            >
            > Night teperatures here 24C day time 34C. April May it goes up to 45C
            in the shade.
            > I now made 2 cooling coils for my 2 fermantation tubs (112L each) with
            a submergable 12V pump in a 100 liter coolerbox where I keep on adding
            Ice, you can by big blocks here for about 50Cent a block.
            > Now for 1 $ a day the temp in the tanks stays between 20 to 26C wich
            is witin the limits printed on the Turbo.
            > Yesterday I made a pure sugar wash as instructed on the Turbo packet,
            and kept it all cool, 24 Hrs later I still have a Oe reading of a 100,
            > +/- 15% alcohol, but no sign of fermentation, not 1 bubble. 15% is wat
            I started of with!
            > Did something happend like this to someone else before? Any advice to
            get this restarted? Having to trow away 140 liters sugar wash would
            hurt.
            > Regards
            > Luc.

          • jamesonbeam1
            Exactly correct Ken, Believe we had this discussion on stacking Turbo yeasts this past year or so in The Advanced Distillers Forum - see:
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009

              Exactly correct Ken,

              Believe we had this discussion on stacking Turbo yeasts this past year or so in The Advanced Distillers Forum - see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/msearch?query=Stacking+Turbo++Jim&charset=windows-1252 

              Believe its better to make several smaller fermentations then one large one.  Also will cause way too much heat due to the fast ferementation, as Luc found out the hard way...

              Vino es Veritas,

              Jim aka Waldo.


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services" <km_services@...> wrote:
              >
              > Gidday Luc,
              >
              > Can I just add to Jim's comments and say that turbo's are intended for the
              > Hobby distiller and geared to the 20 to 25 litre wash with a quick turn
              > around time with highish ABV and most are not generally "stackable". Some
              > like Code 6 ( lower ABV and slower fermenting) can be stacked to make a 50
              > litre maybe 75 litre wash size, but, not much further. I am sure if you are
              > doing washes as high as X7 over the 25 litre size you would need to get
              > commercial yeast that can cope with stacking to that size.
              >
              > Ken Mc (This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure)
              >
              > Hi Luc,
              >
              > Just a quick question, if I may add my 2 cent worth.. you say you doing
              > a 170 liter wash. What type / make of Turbo yeast are you using and how
              > many packets did you use>?? Most packets are only good for a 25 to 30
              > liter wash.
              >
              > Also as Harry stated, check out the expiration date on your packs. The
              > idea of wrapping your fermenter in wet cloths is also a good idea.
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@ <mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com, "lucvanheel" ethyl@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello All
              > >
              > > First I tried my cane juice to ferment, with Turbo yeast,nothing
              > happened! then I went reading again, addedd bakers yeast with extra
              > nuitrients it bubled for 12 hrs and than died, it all got to warm.
              > > I did distill the lot, the 803 performed wonderfull, out of the
              > botched wash 170L cane juice I got 2 L 180% It just proved that he
              > column worked, but not much more.
              > >
              > > Night teperatures here 24C day time 34C. April May it goes up to 45C
              > in the shade.
              > > I now made 2 cooling coils for my 2 fermantation tubs (112L each) with
              > a submergable 12V pump in a 100 liter coolerbox where I keep on adding
              > Ice, you can by big blocks here for about 50Cent a block.
              > > Now for 1 $ a day the temp in the tanks stays between 20 to 26C wich
              > is witin the limits printed on the Turbo.
              > > Yesterday I made a pure sugar wash as instructed on the Turbo packet,
              > and kept it all cool, 24 Hrs later I still have a Oe reading of a 100,
              > > +/- 15% alcohol, but no sign of fermentation, not 1 bubble. 15% is wat
              > I started of with!
              > > Did something happend like this to someone else before? Any advice to
              > get this restarted? Having to trow away 140 liters sugar wash would
              > hurt.
              > > Regards
              > > Luc.
              >

            • KM Services
              Exactly Jim, I have 2# 25litre washes dying down and will be ready for the still this weekend (thinking of the Xmas stock) Ken Mc Exactly correct Ken, Believe
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009

                Exactly Jim,

                I have 2# 25litre washes dying down and will be ready for the still this weekend (thinking of the Xmas stock)

                 

                Ken Mc

                Exactly correct Ken,

                Believe we had this discussion on stacking Turbo yeasts this past year or so in The Advanced Distillers Forum - see: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Distillers /msearch? query=Stacking+ Turbo++Jim&charset=windows- 1252 

                Believe its better to make several smaller fermentations then one large one.  Also will cause way too much heat due to the fast ferementation, as Luc found out the hard way...

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim aka Waldo.

              • jamesonbeam1
                Yuppers Thomas, Your also correct in that aspect. You cannot mix regular ol Baker s Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 6, 2009

                  Yuppers Thomas,

                  Your also correct in that aspect.  You cannot mix regular ol' Baker's Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) with S. Bayanus strains like EC-1118 or K!V-1116, (almost all Turbo yeasts brands use S. Bayanus strains), since these faster acting,  fermenting strains will kill off the wild yeasts and slower growth yeasts like S. Cerevisiae.

                  But me thinks, as does Ken,  that Luc was trying to stack to much Turbo yeast together for his large fermentation volume, rather than trying to do it in smaller lots. 

                  Since he is also  living in a very hot (tropical) climate it seems, Me thinks he would be better off using the Native Danstil EDV 493 yeast that was first cultivated off of sugar cane in the French Carribean and can withstand much higher temps than our Baker, wine or champagne yeasts...

                  Vino es Veritas,

                  Jim aka Waldo.

                   

                  Vino es Veritas,

                  Jim aka Waldo.


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Janstrom" <t_janstrom@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Harry,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I only mentioned the phage option as he has tried two yeast stains and both
                  > failed, although both failures could conceivably be put down to "too high a
                  > fermentation temp" too. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are
                  > "killer" yeast cells, these hunt down and kill other strains while their
                  > numbers are low, might the juice have come with its own yeast from the cane
                  > it was pressed from?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ironically that text was one of my regular "go to" books when I worked in
                  > the industry. I believe that I gave my copy to my little brother who is now
                  > studying micro biology (I think he wants to go into virology)…..
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Cheers, Thomas Janstrom.
                  >
                  > Little Gems.
                  >
                  > http://tjlittlegems.com <http://tjlittlegems.com/index.htm>

                • jamesonbeam1
                  I still think the Danstil-493 would be a better choice for Luc s hot climate. It is used in most rum production in the Carribean, and can withstand 35C.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 10, 2009
                    I still think the Danstil-493 would be a better choice for Luc's hot
                    climate. It is used in most rum production in the Carribean, and can
                    withstand 35C. However, Luc now will have to consider including yeast
                    nutrients with his fermentations (which are included in Turbo Yeasts).
                    He should also start looking into rum making and/or start boiling down
                    his sugar cane juice to increase the sugar contents.

                    Vino es Veritas,

                    Jim aka Waldo.


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Janstrom"
                    <t_janstrom@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ok, while not the one I was thinking of this one will do the job, with
                    low
                    > fusil production to boot.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The yeast is a Lallemand "Lalvin EC-1118" it's a fast, low nutrient
                    > requiring , 18% yielding, 10-35'C working range, active killer strain
                    of
                    > yeast. So if you're using cane juice, or just plain fruit juice it
                    will
                    > clean up the wild type yeasts and get the job done in a couple of
                    days. Now
                    > it is optimised for the temp range 10-30'C, but will work to 35'C,
                    it's just
                    > going to not produce as much alcohol nor be as clean a ferment as it
                    would
                    > be at a cooler working temp.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Cheers, Thomas Janstrom.
                    >
                    > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of Thomas Janstrom
                    > Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 11:23 AM
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Failing fermentation
                    >
                    >
                    > Yeah, people forget that yeasts have a "happy" working range (either
                    temp,
                    > sugar or volume wise), and even though it doesn't sound logical,
                    that's just
                    > the way it is. I'm trying to remember the name of another high temp
                    happy,
                    > but slow (for working at 30'C) fermenting yeast (used mainly in
                    tropical
                    > area home beer brewing). When I remember it I'll post it.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I can probably get access to cane juice too, lots is grown in this
                    area..
                    > Might be fun to try a recipe I found from the 1700's for Caribbean
                    rum.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Cheers, Thomas Janstrom.


                    > On Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
                    > Sent: Monday, 7 September 2009 12:18 PM
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Failing fermentation
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yuppers Thomas,
                    >
                    > Your also correct in that aspect. You cannot mix regular ol' Baker's
                    Yeast
                    > ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae>
                    Saccharomyces
                    > cerevisiae) with S. Bayanus strains like EC-1118 or K!V-1116, (almost
                    all
                    > Turbo yeasts brands use S. Bayanus strains), since these faster
                    acting,
                    > fermenting strains will kill off the wild yeasts and slower growth
                    yeasts
                    > like S. Cerevisiae.
                    >
                    > But me thinks, as does Ken, that Luc was trying to stack to much Turbo
                    > yeast together for his large fermentation volume, rather than trying
                    to do
                    > it in smaller lots.
                    >
                    > Since he is also living in a very hot (tropical) climate it seems, Me
                    > thinks he would be better off using the Native Danstil EDV 493 yeast
                    that
                    > was first cultivated off of sugar cane in the French Carribean and can
                    > withstand much higher temps than our Baker, wine or champagne
                    yeasts...
                    >
                    > Vino es Veritas,
                    >
                    > Jim aka Waldo.
                  • gnikomson2000
                    Jim, Check yer email. Slainte! regards Harry
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 10, 2009
                      Jim,
                      Check yer email.

                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
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